So I got my rim and motor in the past couple days and set about lacing it last night. After seeing ypedals video, I realized I needed to bore out my rim holes just a little to fit these new spokes. So now all the nipples rest in their holes easily but I can only get about halfway around before there's a large amount of force required to fit the next spoke. Seems too much to me and I don't want to break it. I've tried a few different methods of over-under and alternating the elbow directions. All leave me in more or less the same place. Should I do like the Sheldon tutorial and do the trailing first all the way around? Does the rim hole need to be angled any? Right now they're pretty straight and I have to wonder if that's part of the problem preventing things from stretching and fitting right. It wouldn't be an issue to file in some angles if that's all I need. I'm pretty sure the spokes are the right size and the factory confirmed it. Just want some advice for tonight's attempt. If I continue to be unsuccessful ill probably take the money I saved on shipping and their rim and go to a bike shop for help. I think I can do it though if I figure out what is stopping me here. If I do need to angle the rim holes, does anybody have any advice on that? I imagine absolute precision isn't necessary but again I'd rather not completely screw it up. The image below kind of shows my situation.
A Probably Stupid Question About Lacing
- Thread starter corim123
- Start date
Are you fully threading the nipples on? If so, try just catching a few threads first, on each one, then tighten as needed.
I can't quite tell from your pic, but it almost looks like you have the spokes laced "across" the rim--so that they go from the spoke flange, across the centerline of the rim/wheel, to the hole on the other side of the rim. If so, then that would also take up more spoke length, and could cause this problem.
Normally you lace a wheel so it makes a parallelogram if viewed along the direction of travel of the wheel, rather than an X. The X is reserved normally for just side-view.
As a note, i can't see your rim's valve hole, but be sure you lace it up so that ends up in a wide space between the spokes, or you could have a little trouble airing it up later.
(common problem with pre-laced wheels)
Having rim holes angled might help a lot in small diameter wheels with big hubs, but it doesn't look like that big a deal on yours.
I can't quite tell from your pic, but it almost looks like you have the spokes laced "across" the rim--so that they go from the spoke flange, across the centerline of the rim/wheel, to the hole on the other side of the rim. If so, then that would also take up more spoke length, and could cause this problem.
Normally you lace a wheel so it makes a parallelogram if viewed along the direction of travel of the wheel, rather than an X. The X is reserved normally for just side-view.
As a note, i can't see your rim's valve hole, but be sure you lace it up so that ends up in a wide space between the spokes, or you could have a little trouble airing it up later.
(common problem with pre-laced wheels)Having rim holes angled might help a lot in small diameter wheels with big hubs, but it doesn't look like that big a deal on yours.
I'm only threading a couple turns to make it fit. And the valve hole is good. I'll make sure I'm doing it right as far as the parallelogramism. I've tried reconfiguring things a few different ways so its possible I'm doing it completely backwards at this point. I'll post some better photos this evening when I'm back, that was the only one I happened to have on my phone. Does it matter which way the heads of the spokes are facing in regard to the flange?
friendly1uk
1 MW
It could be one of two things. The nipple's are a long thin threaded body that gets bigger at one end in incorporate a seat. The body should not be tight in the hole. The hole is bigger but the seat still can't pull through. This way the nipple can sit at various angles in the rim, and the seat is designed to allow this.
I actually think your spokes are too short. Try fitting a pair of spokes at 12oClock and another pair at 6oClock.
I asked bmsbattery what spokes to get. They told me what they used. They were wrong. You need to measure up the hub and rim and calculate the correct length using an online calculator. Then you can compare the result to what you have.
I actually think your spokes are too short. Try fitting a pair of spokes at 12oClock and another pair at 6oClock.
I asked bmsbattery what spokes to get. They told me what they used. They were wrong. You need to measure up the hub and rim and calculate the correct length using an online calculator. Then you can compare the result to what you have.
For length, yes, if your spokes are short enough. If they're the right length, you should be able to alternate them just like on a normal bike wheel, assuming your flanges have holes that *just* fit the spoke thru, and aren't loose so that the heads can fit partly in there (whcih could cause breakage due to extra stress on ones fit thru from the inside of the flange).corim123 said:
I'll try that as well. If all else fails, my local shop will do this for me for $45 (+ parts potentially) so one way or another ill sort this.friendly1uk said:
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Amber, if they seem to be on the short side, would it be best to have them all facing out instead?
Drunkskunk
100 GW
I see one very obvious and very common mistake that will make lacing this wheel a nightmare: You started on one side, and are trying to work your way around.
Start with the basics, to test the spoke length. you'll want to unlace the spokes you have started.
With a 36 hole wheel, you can easily divide it into 3 sections of 6 spokes each, on each side.
Start by putting in 1 spoke and attach it to the rim, then move around the hub 6 holes, put in another spoke, and finally, 6 more holes for the 3rd spoke. there should be 5 empty holes in between each spoke on the hub, and 11 empty holes between each spoke on the rim. make sure to only twist the nipple on 1 to 2 turns.
Then starting with the first spoke, move over 1 hole on the hub, and lace a 4th spoke to cross the first one. It will meet the hub 2 holes over, with 1 empty hole in between. Then do the 2nd the same way, and finally the 3rd. If you can get all 6 spokes in, and they aren't stretched too tight, then your spokes are roughly the right size.
lacing all one direction first works on small hubs great, but on a large hub like yours, the spoke angles put extra tension on the nipples and heads, and you may find getting the second direction laced is a royal pain in the @ss
Start with the basics, to test the spoke length. you'll want to unlace the spokes you have started.
With a 36 hole wheel, you can easily divide it into 3 sections of 6 spokes each, on each side.
Start by putting in 1 spoke and attach it to the rim, then move around the hub 6 holes, put in another spoke, and finally, 6 more holes for the 3rd spoke. there should be 5 empty holes in between each spoke on the hub, and 11 empty holes between each spoke on the rim. make sure to only twist the nipple on 1 to 2 turns.
Then starting with the first spoke, move over 1 hole on the hub, and lace a 4th spoke to cross the first one. It will meet the hub 2 holes over, with 1 empty hole in between. Then do the 2nd the same way, and finally the 3rd. If you can get all 6 spokes in, and they aren't stretched too tight, then your spokes are roughly the right size.
lacing all one direction first works on small hubs great, but on a large hub like yours, the spoke angles put extra tension on the nipples and heads, and you may find getting the second direction laced is a royal pain in the @ss
Thanks! I had a feeling the Sheldon Wheelbuilding tutorial had a reason for being like that. Some other tutorial had suggested doing them like this but I was going to try it one spoke at a time like you said this evening. Hopefully it'll all look better when I do things like that. Going to leave them alternating at the flange for now as well as I'm imagining that provides more stability and strength. At the very least, it'll give me some distributed force on the flange.
wesnewell
100 GW
I just laced my second wheel the other night in a 26" rim and standard hub in a 3x pattern. It was harder than the first I did which was my hub motor into a 26" rim with a 1x pattern. With the hub motor I laced four spokes at a time with the motor vertical between 2 TV stands. It was a piece of cake. I laced the second laying flat one spoke at time and didn't like it. I noticed you put every spoke in the same way instead of rotating the heads. This will make them rub more. Not sure it will cause any other problems though. How did you determine spoke length and how did you determine how large to drill the spoke holes in the rim?
wesnewell
100 GW
Good luck. Maybe they can get you to answer questions.
Chalo
100 TW
Sounds to me like you didn't get spokes of the right length for your combination of hub and rim, or for a different lacing pattern.
dogman dan
1 PW
Too short is definitely a possibility. Maybe your spokes were cut for a different rim? One with a deeper profile?
If a group of 4 spokes on one side of the wheel are laced, then go 180 degrees to the other side, and see if those will go. If not, then it's too short spokes. If they will go, then your problem is just not having the hub centered enough as you lace.
If a group of 4 spokes on one side of the wheel are laced, then go 180 degrees to the other side, and see if those will go. If not, then it's too short spokes. If they will go, then your problem is just not having the hub centered enough as you lace.
Chalo
100 TW
corim123 said:
The spokes might be the right length for radial lacing.
cal3thousand
10 MW
Chalo said:
Yup, was going to suggest that.
OP:
Use a wheel calc to see.
http://wheelspoking.com/Build.aspx?Mode=Advanced
Or
http://leonard.io/edd/
Chalo
100 TW
Spoke windup is pretty minimal due to the huge radius of the hub.
Lacing radially gives the slight advantage of being able to lace all on one side of the flange. All outside maximizes bracing angle; all on the same side can help minimize spoke angular offset.
Lacing radially gives the slight advantage of being able to lace all on one side of the flange. All outside maximizes bracing angle; all on the same side can help minimize spoke angular offset.
Managed to get it laced radially. Had to put the heads on the inside of the flange as outside they were too long. Now it seems about a perfect fit. Will work on truing it tomorrow to see. Seems fairly sturdy but I'm imagining ill have to be careful about hard starts and using a lot of torque.
docnjoj
1 GW
Extra long nipples are made tha might help.
otherDoc
otherDoc
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