AM dual motor = bafang middrive + rear hub motor

[John Bozi]

Thanks for breaking the news. It's bloody hard to find the pics of exactly what I want.

That now rules out the polygon and the scott and the glory.... and probably every other bike made in the last 2 years.

Faarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

I want the fighter but just can't drop that much cash. Looking at the phasor, where does the controller go? Underneath like the fighter? Can't see any thing to attach it to. Maybe screw into box?

Ok next can't I just file the bottom of the circle on a drop out?

 

[millzy555]

Get a giant dh comp, I just bought a second one off eBay for $600, there's a few around, plenty of space in the triangle for mounting batteries, falcon ev bag too or fibreglass job. Have a look on gumtree, rotorburn forums for bikes

 

[John Bozi]

Another dumb question:

Does QR = quick release have vertical dropouts on those dam rings?

 

[deffx]

Edited....no useful information

Peace Out

Deff

 

[Tinto]

I'd second the notion of a Giant DH Comp. Great bang for your buck new, and even better now.
If I hadn't started with a Giant AC, that is what I would have sought out for a conversion.

My front triangle is very small - some battery packaging challenges on my 17" frame for sure.

 

[John Bozi]

Thanks for suggestions guys,

The comp looks like a great shape if I could find one in good condition. Not turned on by old bikes unless dirt cheap. I was hoping to make my dream bike to a degree. Not keep making them and changing out already worn out parts.

I went into a giant store today up here in brisvegas and looked around. It is a sad state of affairs even for a guy with money to blow.

Everything has changed from 26 to 29 in anything but the big downhill bikes which all have thru axles. It would almost seem like creating a rush of buying might be worth it before even last year's 26ers are all gone.

Looking around on bikeexchange too the $1600 mark are about the price point that you get FS with aluminium front forks. So this 4" front and rear sus. with QR has vertical dropouts. The smaller amount of rear suspension means it is smaller too leaving more space. There are cables in above the bottom tube but they could be zip tied away I presume. I really like the squareness of that tube to partially rest the pack on. It is a bit too big for me this frame as my balls are pushed up when standing above the top tube but I think any smaller would leave no space for the battery.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I can't create a 72V bike with less than 15AH battery - considering I am using LIFEPO4 as I am scared of what my drunken negligence might do using more powerfull stuff.

There are drink bottle nuts I could make a tougher bracket to bend up over the shock.

I'm not excited about this bike, to be honest. I was hoping for a major upgrade from the tank.

 

[full-throttle]

Everything has changed from 26 to 29 in anything but the big downhill bikes which all have thru axles.

26" will be phased out by 650b soon

If you want to go down the hub-motor route, look for frames with replaceable dropouts. Then simply replicate those dropouts to suit the hub. Some will be easier than others.

Alternatively, consider a mid-drive :wink:
I installed mine in less time than it takes to build a wheel with a hub-motor
Oh, and it works better off-road 8)

 

[John Bozi]

Alternatively, consider a mid-drive :wink:
I installed mine in less time than it takes to build a wheel with a hub-motor
Oh, and it works better off-road 8)

Oh I spent a bit of time also in emails with ego kits too after giving up on the price. Although I know there kit would probably hammer up the hills. The other guys kits look like a million things could go wrong and will knowing my luck.

 

[millzy555]

Surely a thread with 6 pages has made a few good points. You're going around in circles here. Read every build thread there is and make your decision. Make do with what ur got. It's really not that hard. Second hand bike market is huge!! And there are people who maintain them so don't stress about replacing a chain or cassette

 

[John Bozi]

Surely a thread with 6 pages has made a few good points. You're going around in circles here. Read every build thread there is and make your decision. Make do with what ur got. It's really not that hard. Second hand bike market is huge!! And there are people who maintain them so don't stress about replacing a chain or cassette

Not sure if there is a rule against keeping your own personal thread on here or not. To me this is where I blog out my thoughts and people can contribute or ignore me. There have not been a few good points, there has been a ton.

If I am not welcome to continue sharing my journey here please ask the admin to contact me. I won't read every bike build thread here sorry, as I am not interested in old bikes, mid drive bikes, 200 watt bikes, bikes that don't look like they could be ridden past a cop etc. I have read a few and take suggestions on board.

If you read the last post I wrote or two I have repeated I'm not interested in using an old bike,I am not asking you to read more than that, thanks for the help.

 

[pendragon8000]

John, I'll say there is allot of "tinking" on here but hey, if that works for you keep it up. and there are a few around that will take a moment to drop some sciense on you. 8)

check theese kits (scroll down to hs3540 rear 26") http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php
then check the upgrade controller option go for the "40A_upgrade Upgrade 25A controller for larger 40A 72V model with IRFB4110 mosfets" they have life batteries but man the size diference and the price is so much more than lipo. anyway you could go for 2 of the 36v batteries in series i beleive but you might want to ask them about that, some one must have tried it.
anyway other than that contact John Karambalis - sales.emtb@gmail.com or hyena (check my signature)
and a battery bag previously mentioned do look prety good in the flesh imo.
and here is the bike i would recomend for a new dual 26"
.. i was thinking this until i saw it has no room in triangle:

and noticed kona stinky is only $1900, heaps of room in triangle. but yeah it has through axle so the removable dropouts would have to be replaced with custom made ones at a cost i'm guessing in the hundreds to have made profesionally.

 

[John Bozi]

The stinky looks too small and as you say same with thru axles for the pictured one.
The kits look good but I will look into finding which kit will fit the size of the bike now, and preferably who can customize the battery around the frame.

This bike is a bit of a break through. Dropouts, possibly going to cost only $1080 (not sure about customs) lots of full suspension.

I am currently wondering if I should go Large: 19" or X-Large: 21". If it were just for a mountain bike I'd go medium. But my tank is 19" and have had no issues with height. I think I will probably go XLarge just to get more room in the triangle. Bit worried about dimensions. My 5ten shoes are almost platforms and hey we all can lean a bike on stand still. I highly doubt there would be too much room in the triangle but if there were I'd fit the controller in it but outside the battery. Also it has no wires in the triangle and I like the way the rear suspension has a little triangle that would hold the battery forward.

Bloody cheap if you ask me!

 

[pendragon8000]

nice find, how are the components?
the thing with biger bike is longer wheel base, thats usualy preferable for going fast and as you said more room in triangle. i would go XL . i highly doubt you would regret the decision even having your nuts sitting on the top tube, the longer wheel base would be worth it IMO. considering most bikes are made to handle at 35kph, you need to do what you can to accomidate the extra 15-25 kph.

 

[John Bozi]

Had never thought about longer wheel bases, is that like why drag race cars are so long? It has more balance or something?

Few of the components on the bike are pretty much no names, or associated with low quality, but hey you expect that for $1080.

Frame: 120mm travel Horst Linkage, Custom Formed 6061 Double Butted Alloy
Rear Shock: Rock Shox Bar R, with hydraulic damping & IFP, rebound adjust
Fork: RST First 32 Air, 120mm hydraulic damping, rebound adjust, lock out, air spring, alloy steerer
Headset: Cane Creek, ZS44 Threadless 1-1/8"
Rims: WTB SX19 Disc, 26" 32 Hole, Double Wall
Hub - Front: Alloy 6 bolt disc w/CNC rotor flange, quick release
Hub - Rear: Alloy 6 bolt disc w/CNC rotor flange, quick release, Cassette
Tyres: Kenda Slant 6, 26 x 2.1" Folding
Spokes: 14G Black w/Alloy nipples
Derailleur - Front: SRAM X7
Derailleur - Rear: Shimano Deore Shadow
Shifters: Shimano Alivio rapidFire - 3 x 9 speed
Chain: SRAM PC-951
Crankset: Shimano Alivio 22/32/44T
BB: Shimano Octalink
Cassette: Shimano CS-HG20-9, 11-34T, 9 Speed
Pedals: Wellgo Alloy MTB 1 pc
Seat Post: Alloy Micro Adjust 30.9 x 350mm
Saddle: WTB Volt Sport
Handlebar: Alloy riser, 680mm wide, 25mm rise
Stem: Forged Alloy, 4 bolt
Grips: Q2 Lock-On
Brake Levers: Avid Elixir 1
Brakes: Avid Elixir 1 w/160mm rotors
Weight: 14.8kg

I don't know the width between dropouts or axle thickness that can fit in there but that's what I'll be working with as I just can't find anything else. If I can't fit enough battery for 72v then I will have to look at dropping the voltage. I still love hooting around on my 48v tank as it keeps me around legal limits on flats most the time where I ride 90% of the time. Faster than 60kmh I don't even know if I could trust the bike. Would hate to hit the bitumen if a wheel collapsed, fell off, or the frame just snapped under weight.

I am also wondering how rear suspension behaves when accelerating (as I have never ridden one). Does it pull down or make the bike go up and down?

 

[pendragon8000]

If you get a kit from evokes.CA or hyena you should expect to do power wheelies if you lean back a bit, and yeah it will squash the rear down as you grab a bunch of throttle.
The ratio of top gear on that bike should let you pedal pretty well at 55kph

 

[John Bozi]

If you get a kit from evokes.CA or hyena you should expect to do power wheelies if you lean back a bit, and yeah it will squash the rear down as you grab a bunch of throttle.
The ratio of top gear on that bike should let you pedal pretty well at 55kph

I think you had a Freudian slip, there's no evokes I know of. How's the beers?

So yeah this morning I rode a short trip about 15 minutes max and then went for another the same length without recharging. It was fully charged prior so no idea what was going on when it started cutting out. It seemed to cut out on a tiny bump first. Then cut out when I'd push it to full throttle. Kept unplugging replugging and testing if it was exactly until I reach full throttle till I got home. And then it just wouldn't give any power.

I presumed maybe I used more power than I thought as I do get lazy recently going up hills. So I tried to recharge it.

I tried again and again kept telling me green, "fully charged" I know that's wrong as usually it will top up even if I go for a spin around the block. Kept trying, then I checked every wire connection but nothing.

I finally took the battery off the bike and laid it flat on its side. Now the charger works.?!

I am presuming there is a battery problem going on here that I haven't been able to solve. Here are two ideas going.

1. Today similar to the day it blew up on me, I had it plugged in but wasn't riding it for a while. today it happened because I plugged it in at the shops and just rolled down hill through traffic and public not needing power. My weird thinking is that it hates being plugged in but not having a current drawn.

2. Even though I hit no even medium bump, the extra sponge has lost its spring and now the battery is lying on point again and even minute bumps smash into the bottom battery.

If 2. is the problem it is hard to solve as the space is limited. I could remove the bracket we put in place but then the battery would drop to the bottom of the triangle more and hit the front chain rings or derauelier (hate spelling that word).

Currently the battery is on charge and am waiting to see what happens next, when I replug it in. I will add more "fresh" sponge but this would be a short solution.

If this is the root of the problem I think there's only one ugly solution, to get a rear battery rack.

Ok 2hours later after charging the plugs would light up the throttle lights so took it for a spin. Same problem cuts out when I push it to fuller power.

What is wrong?

ps added attachment of a set up I am thinking to put on the next bike as this one looks like sh34

 

[pendragon8000]

Yeah evoca, my best local pub (from work) .. I meant ebikes.CA, and great work with the simulator screen shot!

That kit with the bike you are looking at should be pretty bloody awesome. I would opt for drilled holes in side plate to, I think its an extra $40 or something. Keeps the hub cooler when climbing hills. And make sure you get a motor with a thermistor so the cycle analyst can protect it from over heating. Oh yeah.. get s cycle analyst v3 $150 I really great addition to a high powered rig.

 

[John Bozi]

Yeah the simulator is cool if it is correct, I put my weight and bike and kept adjusting to get the range. Not happy about the overheating issues. If you put a grade on there it's bloody aweful - in one of my videos I rode up a 16% grade with peddling to aid the motor would be nice to see something that could handle it for a bit longer than a minute. The bomber 5403 has way better performance so

I really would like the crown considering I just read this on ebikes.ca

Our next Crystalyte shipment has unfortunately faced months of setbacks, but is now scheduled to arrive around May 15th. Two things to note: first we've decided to completely replace the larger 5403 motor with the new "Crown" hub, which should offer comparable power levels but with less weight and standard 135mm axle spacing. Secondly, all of these motors will now include a built in thermistor, so that anyone can monitor and limit their motor temperature easily with a V3 Cycle Analyst.

But I don't know why on the crystalite site it is listed as 1400 dropouts.

TC Motor Specs
* Rear wheel motor
* Two type of dropout version :
- Axle dropout : 140mm / one speed freewheel => For normal bicycle
- Axle dropout 162mm / one speed freewheel => For custom very strong bike frame

On the pdf it does say dimensions are not guaranteed so who knows.

Thing I am not impressed with the HS3540 is that overheats so quickly. The crown looks made to take 72v. I am waiting for the shipment to come up on the ebikes.ca before I proceed.

Considering there is only a 5mm difference - I wonder if my khs could be stretched a couple of mm to accomodate it.

I am interested in the * TC65 = 65KM / 72V as I think any more speed than that will only make start writing checks to boys in blue.

p.s. my tank has major issues no idea how to fix so I think I will start by souldering more of the thicker wires coming out of the controller than warm up the most first.

I can give it full throttle when holding up the rear, but when I ride it full throttle cuts out which I am assuming is either some sort of lack of ability to take bigger currents - quick overheating in the wires, or there might be a damaged cell. Could you take a guess for us?

 

[John Bozi]

I gonna take a frame with replaceable dropouts. Feeling excited..... [/u]

I wish I could afford $3000 just for a frame. The Pivot Phoenix is replacable and 150mm

This Intense frame $2000

 

[John Bozi]

Because the power kept cutting out on full throttle we decided to open up the battery.

There are 80 3AH batteries in there in a 5 positive 5 negative set up. First thing I found was a battery which looked like it had burnt the connections. Checked outside the cover and it was melted.

Please explain what caused this as we don't know, and we don't know if it will be a good battery in future.

This is a close up of the first cell I guess is damaged or malfunctioning.

This is the melt mark on the outside cover corresponding with it. Which I didn't notice before and is on the opposite side to where I had my first intitial wire explosion,

We didn't have a spot weld just a solder iron and there were two loose batteries that we soldered down one near the bms in the corner and the other at the bottom of the triangle. Both take most of the force of any bumps and are at the extremes no really covered by much to protect them from falling out of the connections.

In future if this problem of disconnections occurs again we plan to solder wire every battery as these connections are prone to disconnecting at the slightest bump.

Major problem with the cheap ebay ebike kits solved for now for I think the 4th time.

Questions: Can these batteries run without the bms? Is there a good tutorial on building your own battery systems? What is the stuff looks like wood glue or no more gap or silicon something that is put between batteries (it goes hard and clear when dry)?

 

[pendragon8000]

Silicone glue could save it a bit. You should have a protective shell around the battery IMO.

 

[John Bozi]

Have been busy with new kid. Finally a chance to continue the story.

The ebay guy returned $50 he said to put toward better wiring or torque arm or whatever because I had put negative feedback on ebay. He was a good guy to do that.

Apart from that. Pendragon have you seen this? I am waiting a reply on dropout widths and if I can buy bits of the bike. These guys are located on my side of town so when I get a chance will go to check out the bike.
http://www.jubecustoms.com.au/shop/17/Street-Cruiser/2/STREET-CRUISER-by-JiM-JunkEe

Looks like a bomber without the motor and battery

It would end up looking like a motorcycle but dam imagine those fat tyres with the crown in them.

 

[pendragon8000]

The rear shock need replacing for at least $150 . How much do they want? It's got fat tyres for street only but other than that it's nothing exciting in my opinion.

 

[John Bozi]

The rear shock need replacing for at least $150 . How much do they want? It's got fat tyres for street only but other than that it's nothing exciting in my opinion.

$800 - I like it because it looks like it could handle the crown and is 24inch rims. I am not sure about the front or rear suspension - I'm waiting to see how much they can modify it for me. Since they seem to custom" make them. If they could weld a battery holder under it etc.

There are not many bike stores up here that custom things just got excited that its pretty close to drive to.

 

[pendragon8000]

Sorry I was half asleep when I looked at it before. It could be OK to use everything as is.
That would be cool to use a crown. So you guna get bits and pieces and DIY? It would be worth contacting hyena and see what he can put together for you, maby crow/crown with a 18fet controller and 15ah of rc lipo 18s (75volt).
Still I'm Sus on that rear shock... easy to replace with air shock with adjustable dampening.