Compact Field Oriented Controller, ASI + Grin, limited run

[pedaler]

@fanchon: Thank you for your input and tip with the locate settings. Switching to EN-US really fixed the issue. Living in Switzerland, this setting is not really convenient but changing all detail settings within EN-US to DE-CH-style like date and time format does not have any influence on BacDoor. So this is a work-arround with which I can live. Thanks again!

\pedaler

 

[justin_le]

@fanchon: Thank you for your input and tip with the locate settings. Switching to EN-US really fixed the issue. Living in Switzerland, this setting is not really convenient but changing all detail settings within EN-US to DE-CH-style like date and time format does not have any influence on BacDoor. So this is a work-arround with which I can live. Thanks again!

Thanks too Fanchon for pitching in and sorting this out. We weren't having much success at our end trying to understand what was going on in this case. If there is some feedback we should be giving to ASI on their backdoor software here then let us know and we can submit that to them.

Also, good news for those who may have missed things out and wanted one of these pilot units. I mentioned earlier in this post http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=976580#p976580 that we had a number of units that initially had issues and weren't put available for sale. Well a lot of those turned out to just be silly soldering mistakes in the wire harness, and so we've gone through and fixed up a handful more pieces to fully pass QC and have made the part in stock again here:
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/ebike-parts/controllers/c-bac500.html

Just 3 units left now, but there could be 1 or 2 more added during the course of this week.

 

[ambroseliao]

I've just started working with the BAC500 and a new Mac 7T motor. I've tried it sensorless and with sensors and I get similar results. The motor turns but stutters for a few seconds and if I push the throttle higher, the system stops with a blinking red LED on the BAC500 and I need to reset it by either unplugging the battery or pressing the reset button in BacDoor 1.5.3.

I just changed the connector on the Mac to match the black connector from the BAC500 so I may have made a bad connection or two there, which would explain the identical behavior with or without sensors. I haven't tried changing the phase wires. I've just gone straight for YGB to YGB.

Does anyone have any clue?

 

[justin_le]

Does anyone have any clue?

Hi Ambrose, start by counting the exact blinking pattern, that will tell you the precise fault that the ASI controller is reporting and can give some clues on what you need to change. You can also see this if you have the controller plugged into a computer when you run the motor, just look at the "Status" box on the right which will have a red circle on it and indicate the fault. The most common problem with mismatched motor parameters is to have a "phase overcurrent" fault.

I'm presuming that you followed all the procedures for autotuning and saving the winding resistance and inductances, and set the #poles and nominal RPM and all those parameters too, and then hit "save to flash" so that they are stored permanently on the controller during power up? Make sure you have done all of the steps that robbie outlined here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&hilit=grin+field&start=25#p978256
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&hilit=grin+field&start=25#p978281

If you want to save the parameter list that you currently have on the controller and upload it here then we can also have a look to see if there aren't important settings that were overlooked.

 

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Justin. No, I haven't done anything but plug it in. I will read the instructions and try them before anything else!

Thanks for the quick response.

 

[CKs]

Additionally, I also faced another issue with the new firmware: there were lots of hiccups at low speed and sometimes motor even refused to start.
It turned out to come from "Hall stall fall time" that was cutting power off, I changed it from 10 to 100ms and everything went fine.
I don't clearly understand why previous firmware wasn't faulting with a stall fall time of 10ms, whenever I didn't changed any parameters...

U used this controller for some time, so i suppose the motor's basic parameters & hall sector are set up exactly;
Then i think u should be focus on current regulator Kp & Ki, Speed regulator Kp & Ki and PLL Kp & Ki;

If there was some noise & resonance in low speed,u can try to decrease current regulator Kp & Ki value;
If there happened hiccup when start, or full throttle start, or in the process of acceleration, it's most likely due to bad setup of PLL Kp & Ki;
for you case, i will suggest PLL Kp=1000, Ki=1, maybe this is a way to solve your issue.

 

[ambroseliao]

I got back to checking my setup again and after following Robbie's instructions here:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=65031&hilit=grin+field&start=25#p978281

I was not successful in getting the motor to run for long. The error in looking at BacDoor 1.53 is:

"Bit 9 Instantaneous phase over current"

The motor runs for about 2 seconds before it cuts out. The phase wires are straight BBGGYY. I've tried this sensored and sensorless with the same result. I'm powering it with a 36V battery.

[youtube]ujiCh-lwOpU[/youtube]

A

 

[amberwolf]

That "banging" sounds like a phase "missing", or unsynchronized. That happens even in sensored mode?

Is it possible one of the phases is not making a good connection between controller and motor?

 

[ambroseliao]

Thanks AW.

I used Lyen's motor tester and it seems that all the LEDs in the circular pattern all light up in pairs and rotate.

 

[amberwolf]

That doesnt test if there is a good connection between the motor and controller, though.
(unless you are hooking the tester up at the wires at the PCB of the controller inside it's box)

 

[ambroseliao]

I tried the controller on my Sensorless Crystalyte HS3540 and it ran beautifully. I need to take the Mac apart to see what's going on inside. Thanks Amberwolf.

The hs3540 ran extremely quietly which is very promising.

[youtube]r6WAoF7LAVQ[/youtube]

 

[amberwolf]

I tried the controller on my Sensorless Crystalyte HS3540 and it ran beautifully.

Is that using the same wire and connectors that were on the first motor, cut off of it and spliced onto the HS?

If not, then you could still have a connection issue.

It could of course be a lot of other things, but it doesn't sound like you have tested or checked the actual connectors/connections.

 

[district9prawn]

You seem to have the correct pole pairs for the crystalyte so I'm assuming you have the correct number for the MAC as well?

 

[ambroseliao]

From what I can tell from the EM3EV site, it's supposed to be 16 and that's what I've tried. The info is here:

http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=40&product_id=52

AmberW has mentioned a couple of times that the connection between the controller and motor might be the issue. I need to check the Anderson PowerPoles to make sure they're perfect.

 

[justin_le]

From what I can tell from the EM3EV site, it's supposed to be 16 and that's what I've tried. The info is here:

That would only be the case if you are setting your RPM to the motor RPM and not the wheel RPM. It's probably easier to set it to 80 poles (16 poles * 5:1 gear reduction) and then you can reference the actual wheel RPM in the motor RPM setting. This detail is most important to get right. I don't think you have a connector issue, just haven't configured the parameters right for your hub.

The settings that work for a direct drive Crysatlyte H motor will definitely not work on a geared MAC motor, and visa versa.

 

[ambroseliao]

Thanks Justin,

I'll give the 80 poles a try tonight. Are there any other geared motor users of this BAC500 controller out there? If so, would you post your settings?

Thanks,
Ambrose

 

[ambroseliao]

Justin nailed it. I changed the pole pairs to 80 and the motor now runs very well.

Thanks!

Here's a video of the run with my Mac 7T and the BAC500 on 37 volts nominal.

[youtube]JG50inFee1I[/youtube]

 

[riba2233]

I don't understand, how can controller see difference between motor and wheel rpm? Why do we have to set pole pairs to pairs*reduction? Thanks!

 

[justin_le]

I don't understand, how can controller see difference between motor and wheel rpm? Why do we have to set pole pairs to pairs*reduction? Thanks!

It would work identically at 16 poles too if he set the rated motor RPM to 2500 instead of 500. It's just important that you are speaking in the same language, ie. wheel RPM and effective poles per wheel rotation, or actual motor RPM and motor pole pairs.

Good to hear that's all it was and that your motor is spinning Ambrose!

 

[riba2233]

Ok, now that makes sense 8)

 

[amberwolf]

My apologies to ambroseliao for the red herring. It just sounded so much like times I have had a phase connection problem on other controllers/motors.

 

[ambroseliao]

Absolutely no apologies needed!

I didn't know for certain so no sweat. I have been known to make a bad connector or two but I have the TriCrimp from PowerWerx so was pretty certain the connections were good.

 

[Gab]

Justin

Are you sure the INFINEON and your motor were set to neutral timeing as a baseline ? Because a lot of the hall sensor location/controller are slightly advanced in one direction. To check this test for max rpm in both direction. And by changeing to the new controller with FOC control without the sensors you may have gone back to neutral timeing, hence the gain in efficiency at low RPM and reduction of top Speed may have to do with the change in timeing and not only the FOC control ? can you test for this to see if true or not ?

I.e is the efficiency gains you saw 3-6% at low RPM due to FOC control or due to retarding the timeing back to neutral timeing ?

 

[jk1]

How much of the 3-6% efficiency gain is actualy from the better 2.5Mohm vs 10Mohm mosfets ? Could they also give some efficiency gain? and if so how much is actaul the FOC control gains ?

 

[ambroseliao]

Just wanted to report that I took a ride with the BAC500, CADP V3 and Crystalyte HS3540 motor on an old 37V limn battery and the combination worked well. The motor was COMPLETELY silent compared to the Crystalyte sensorless controller. It needs a bit more fine tuning of the throttle response curve but so far, I'm very happy.

In the video below, My Gopro was mounted on the stanchion of the front fork so it picks up lots of disc brake noise, however, the motor itself was beautifully silent and very smooth.

[youtube]sGqSzfpTwQQ[/youtube]