E-S Stealth Electric Bike Owners

Justtoby said:
I have just re-read Rix's post where he says he is 118kg, that is nearly 19 stone...I certainly do not mean to be rude in any way but that is a lot of weight for a bike and it will dull the performance by quite a bit I guess, I am under 80kg!

Hope not to offend but worth the discusion?
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I'm 110kg, and the bomber really notices it. My 70kg son is far more suited to it, it glides over bumps with him on it, and glides through the air just like fullthrottle was riding it!!!

My 30kg 10 yo keeps threatening to get on it, but I think it would lift the front wheel and pitch him off. Resulting in "Comic Gold" at likely, some financial expense.

If he does get on, I will film it for you all. Sure to go viral.... He looks like a flea on a dogs' back sitting on it....
 
Justtoby, not offended by the kilos I carry around, and yes, its worth discussing because I dont' want to be a squid, (AKA Snoob) when it comes to riding the fighter and melt the motor down. Remf, I did order the Army Green Fighter with the RST 1 dual crown fork. I have ridden the 888 zocchs before, I don't think for $900 extra USD the zocchs cost are worth the extra 20mm of travel and .4kg lighter weight these forks are over the RSTs. BTW, I emailed Darrin Brin, our US rep and asked if the fighter could be ordered with the bomber hub motor. He said buy the bomber if I want the bomber hub. Justtoby, you were right, Stealth doesn't play musical hub motors with the fighter and bomber. Only the Hurricane gets that treatment. Hyena indicated that I may benefit from drilling the hub out for ventilation purposes. Sounds like thats the direction I need to go. Does anybody have details about doing this? How big the holes should be, pattern, placements? Everybody, thanks again for the info and tips. I have 5 long weeks to wait before my fighter arrives.

Rubber side down, Rix
 
Rix said:
Justtoby, not offended by the kilos I carry around, and yes, its worth discussing because I dont' want to be a squid, (AKA Snoob) when it comes to riding the fighter and melt the motor down. Remf, I did order the Army Green Fighter with the RST 1 dual crown fork. I have ridden the 888 zocchs before, I don't think for $900 extra USD the zocchs cost are worth the extra 20mm of travel and .4kg lighter weight these forks are over the RSTs. BTW, I emailed Darrin Brin, our US rep and asked if the fighter could be ordered with the bomber hub motor. He said buy the bomber if I want the bomber hub. Justtoby, you were right, Stealth doesn't play musical hub motors with the fighter and bomber. Only the Hurricane gets that treatment. Hyena indicated that I may benefit from drilling the hub out for ventilation purposes. Sounds like thats the direction I need to go. Does anybody have details about doing this? How big the holes should be, pattern, placements? Everybody, thanks again for the info and tips. I have 5 long weeks to wait before my fighter arrives.

Rubber side down, Rix
Click to expand...

I ordered my Bomber with the RST forks and did not care for the bumpy ride on any small crack in the pavement as well as the clunk I heard when front braking and looking down the fork you could see movement when braking as well. Trashed it and put on a Fox 40. A Fox 36 would work well on a Fighter.

Why drill the Motor and mess with your warranty? My Bomber runs cool and I carry an extra battery, tools and with me the total is about 266 lbs +115 for the bike. Holes let in dirt...an oil bath may be better and would prolly cool better as well. There are threads on oil cooling you may want to read up on if you are dead set on dropping the hubs temp.

If it works leave it alone :)
 
Yummy, the army green will look fantastic.

My advice is try the bike and see how hot it gets but be wary, any decent engineering firm will be able to drill the hub and there are loads of pics on es.

I love my rst forks and do not find they crash at all, they can be set very soft if you like but yes they do move a bit under heavy braking on the bomber but not to ruin performance.

I expect that if you have an issue with the fighter you could sell it for full retail straight away and buy a bomber.
 
Remf, I just went to that Ebikes-ca simulator and put in the data with the 52V Ping 20 AH batt, 50 amp controller under the HS 3540 motor. If this simulator is correct, there wasn't much difference between a 120 kg person and 70 kg person. 1.5 kph diffence and slightly faster accelleration for the lighter person to top speed. Slightly more current draw for the 120kg person. I know from riding gassers that two riders of simliar skill on the same machine with a differenc of 50 kg body weight is HUGE. The simulator doesn't show a big difference at all with electrics. Is the simulator accurate?

Paul, if the RST Forks are serviceable, I can experiment and control rebound and dampening with changes in fork oil weight, or if I am lucky the forks will have an exteranl compression and rebound adjustment knobs and I can fine tune the rate of rebound and dampening with that. Your's and Justtoby's advise is sound about trying the fighter out and see how hot the hub gets before I do anything.

To all, thanks again for talking to me

Rix
 
Another consideration with a heavier person on the Fighter is if the rear shock can cope. Being an air shock, you can up the pressure for more pre load. Standard pressure on the Fighter shock is 100psi on the lower chamber and 150-180psi on the upper chamber. 180psi being about right for a 90kg (200lb) rider. I think Rix is going to need to go to 200psi on the upper chamber which is typically the upper limit of these shocks. :|

Power wise, I think the Fighter will cope fine. I think the rear suspension is the more important item to focus on in this situation. There are plenty of other rear shock options available if the standard shock isn't quite up it. :)
 
Kepler said:
Another consideration with a heavier person on the Fighter is if the rear shock can cope. Being an air shock, you can up the pressure for more pre load. Standard pressure on the Fighter shock is 100psi on the lower chamber and 150-180psi on the upper chamber. 180psi being about right for a 90kg (200lb) rider. I think Rix is going to need to go to 200psi on the upper chamber which is typically the upper limit of these shocks. :|

Power wise, I think the Fighter will cope fine. I think the rear suspension is the more important item to focus on in this situation. There are plenty of other rear shock options available if the standard shock isn't quite up it. :)
Click to expand...

Keplers made a good point here. There are upper limits to the Fighter shock - I'm an 85kg rider and have mine boosted to it's limits to cope with some of the hits that I give it, having noticed that it was using full travel on easier rides. Kepler, what other shocks are you referring to? Am conscious its 210mm eye to eye, 20mm wide collars..
 
Kepler said:
I am thinking a sprung shock rather then an air shock. Something like this. http://www.dnmshock.com/bicycle-wheelchair-shocks/burner-rcp.html. I will do a bit more searching. Hyena has a different shock then standard on his fighter. Not sure what it is.
Click to expand...

Speaking of rear shocks I would like to find a lighter spring to replace the the Bomber spring as I do 95% street riding. If any one knows what is stock and where to find lighter please let me know.
 
Rix said:
Remf, I just went to that Ebikes-ca simulator and put in the data with the 52V Ping 20 AH batt, 50 amp controller under the HS 3540 motor. If this simulator is correct, there wasn't much difference between a 120 kg person and 70 kg person. 1.5 kph diffence and slightly faster accelleration for the lighter person to top speed. Slightly more current draw for the 120kg person. I know from riding gassers that two riders of simliar skill on the same machine with a differenc of 50 kg body weight is HUGE. The simulator doesn't show a big difference at all with electrics. Is the simulator accurate?

Paul, if the RST Forks are serviceable, I can experiment and control rebound and dampening with changes in fork oil weight, or if I am lucky the forks will have an exteranl compression and rebound adjustment knobs and I can fine tune the rate of rebound and dampening with that. Your's and Justtoby's advise is sound about trying the fighter out and see how hot the hub gets before I do anything.

To all, thanks again for talking to me

Rix
Click to expand...


It is my experience that performance on 'paper' (simulators) is not the same as real world when you compare the effects of weight.

Great example: last night I carried a 12lb chain lock while out pedaling my road bike. On paper, 12lbs is only about 6% increase in total weight I'm pushing up hills. I was hurting. Adding 12lbs felt like adding 24lbs. That's my rule of thumb - the effect is double.

A 50kg weight difference will be huge, even on a 5kw bike I am sure. Top speed might not be too too difference, but acceleration and climbing and FUN will be.
 
veloman said:
Rix said:
Remf, I just went to that Ebikes-ca simulator and put in the data with the 52V Ping 20 AH batt, 50 amp controller under the HS 3540 motor. If this simulator is correct, there wasn't much difference between a 120 kg person and 70 kg person. 1.5 kph diffence and slightly faster accelleration for the lighter person to top speed. Slightly more current draw for the 120kg person. I know from riding gassers that two riders of simliar skill on the same machine with a differenc of 50 kg body weight is HUGE. The simulator doesn't show a big difference at all with electrics. Is the simulator accurate?

Paul, if the RST Forks are serviceable, I can experiment and control rebound and dampening with changes in fork oil weight, or if I am lucky the forks will have an exteranl compression and rebound adjustment knobs and I can fine tune the rate of rebound and dampening with that. Your's and Justtoby's advise is sound about trying the fighter out and see how hot the hub gets before I do anything.

To all, thanks again for talking to me

Rix
Click to expand...


It is my experience that performance on 'paper' (simulators) is not the same as real world when you compare the effects of weight.

Great example: last night I carried a 12lb chain lock while out pedaling my road bike. On paper, 12lbs is only about 6% increase in total weight I'm pushing up hills. I was hurting. Adding 12lbs felt like adding 24lbs. That's my rule of thumb - the effect is double.

A 50kg weight difference will be huge, even on a 5kw bike I am sure. Top speed might not be too too difference, but acceleration and climbing and FUN will be.
Click to expand...
Hi veloman. I agree re paper to real world weight figures ! I carry a 4.5kg (10lbs) Almax chain and Abloy lock when needed, i weigh around 77kg's and find this extra weight makes a HUGE difference to performance and range! I think too, come up with a figure and DOUBLE IT to have a "real world" approximation :shock:
 
Veloman,
I agree with you. Simulators and real world can vary greatly. But, I am not experienced with electric power. The hardest thing I have ever done with anything involving 2 wheels is try to accurately predict how they will run and handle without actually test riding them. The nearest Stealth dealer to me is over 600 miles (984 km) away. With fuel prices on the rise, it would be an over night trip and over 500 USD for a test ride. So I am trying to guesstimate what the fighter will do with me on it with no test ride. One way or another, come May 5-12, I will know. Thanks for the info,

Rix
 
Yes I wouldn't worry too much either. I just tried a real-world test on my high-speed Fighter. 20 kg of dumbbells & bricks in a backpack to augment my 72 kg. The difference on flats is noticeable, acceleration isn't as snappy, top speed is a few mph less but it still goes very fast.

Hill climbs are considerably slower, under maximum load the motor got very hot very quickly. I would expect the stock high-torque motor with drilled covers would perform much better on climbs. Dissipating the heat would be my concern, as well as the rear shock...definitely agree on the coil shock - Fox Van RC would be ideal.
 
Here is a few pics of my bomber side covers before i get them powder coated, i will post more pics once they are painted :mrgreen:
triumphphotos001.jpg
triumphphotos010.jpg
triumphphotos025.jpg
triumphphotos029.jpg
triumphphotos031.jpg
triumphphotos033.jpg
 
Rix said:
Justtoby, not offended by the kilos I carry around, and yes, its worth discussing because I dont' want to be a squid, (AKA Snoob) when it comes to riding the fighter and melt the motor down. Remf, I did order the Army Green Fighter with the RST 1 dual crown fork. I have ridden the 888 zocchs before, I don't think for $900 extra USD the zocchs cost are worth the extra 20mm of travel and .4kg lighter weight these forks are over the RSTs. BTW, I emailed Darrin Brin, our US rep and asked if the fighter could be ordered with the bomber hub motor. He said buy the bomber if I want the bomber hub. Justtoby, you were right, Stealth doesn't play musical hub motors with the fighter and bomber. Only the Hurricane gets that treatment. Hyena indicated that I may benefit from drilling the hub out for ventilation purposes. Sounds like thats the direction I need to go. Does anybody have details about doing this? How big the holes should be, pattern, placements? Everybody, thanks again for the info and tips. I have 5 long weeks to wait before my fighter arrives.

Rubber side down, Rix
Click to expand...

Someone on here decided that the most efficient hole design are ones that are shaped like male genetalia. I don't know why, nor do I remember where, could someone please post the link so he can have a litle chuckle to himself?
 
Nice work mate, looks very slick. Aluminium I take it ? Hopefully the controller still gets enough air flow. If I was making something nice from scratch like that I'd be more inclined to make it a sealed unit, remove the controller from it's case and bolt the heatsink straight to your new piece. That would enable it to use the whole section as a heatsink and still protect it.


Someone on here decided that the most efficient hole design are ones that are shaped like male genetalia. I don't know why, nor do I remember where, could someone please post the link so he can have a litle chuckle to himself?
Click to expand...
Heh that was me, it was originally a joke with AussieJester and only a photoshop but then Luke actually CNC'd them into his rewound H35 motor, which he promptly fed too much power on the dyno resulting in 'great balls of fire' :lol:
 
I remember seeing a video of a motor being destroyed on a dyno with the "willyhole" cooling option. That must have been it.

To be honest, I didn't realize at the time, someone pointed it out. Then I cried with laughter. I hadn't seen the original chat re: holes - I was too green. :mrgreen:
 
Yeah, so anyway... Back on track....

Instead of holes drilled LR&C, what are the chances of aluminium plate, watercut into (here comes the tough part) half "O"'s and TIG welded onto the cente hub (between the spoke tie holes) say, 5mm gap in between (so the hub centre will look like an old kid's 2 stroke motor bike head) and maybe some cool looking half "S" or "C" plates welded onto the covers (each side) of the hub motor? (to resemble the inside of a vented sport brake rotor, automotive style).

These kinds of heat fins/sinks have been maintaining temperatures on go-karts and motor cycles for years - we are only talking 10kW. Some of these 2 stroke engines make 100+ H.P. (74.6kW for the metricians).

The main hub ones would be easy to weld through the spokes, I would only stitch them on, 10mm on, 50mm off. With a JIG, and offset the welding, should work fine.

Someone smarter than me will come up with something... Hyena, do you know anyone smarter than me?? :p
 
Hyena said:
Nice work mate, looks very slick. Aluminium I take it ? Hopefully the controller still gets enough air flow. If I was making something nice from scratch like that I'd be more inclined to make it a sealed unit, remove the controller from it's case and bolt the heatsink straight to your new piece. That would enable it to use the whole section as a heatsink and still protect it.


Someone on here decided that the most efficient hole design are ones that are shaped like male genetalia. I don't know why, nor do I remember where, could someone please post the link so he can have a litle chuckle to himself?
Click to expand...
Heh that was me, it was originally a joke with AussieJester and only a photoshop but then Luke actually CNC'd them into his rewound H35 motor, which he promptly fed too much power on the dyno resulting in 'great balls of fire' :lol:
Click to expand...

Thanks mate , yes alloy and a bit of brass! Made it so air still gets through the top and sides but water and mud doesn't get flicked up from the tyre onto the controller! Thought about doing something MUCH more ellaborate but still wanted to remove entire stucture and go to factory look if needed for sales purposes :mrgreen: I checked the temp of the controller after a hard ride and it wasn't very warm at all also the lower bash plate is directly tapped into the controller heat sink so it DOES act as an "extra" heat sink if it should get a little crowded in there in the future if i go LiPo :lol:
 
Paul, thanks for the info about the real world test witht DBs and Bricks. Sound like I will definately need to pedal when climbing.

Kepler how much PSI is the rear shock rated for? I had a 2010 specialized enduro with a simliar rear fox shock (Fox RP2?), I ran 265 PSI in that and it never blew on me. That shock didn't have the external reservoir though. I am sure the shock stroke ratio was different and my fighter has just a little over twice the weight as the specialized enduro. Taking your advise, I will start out at 200 PSI and tune from there. Any suggestions for starting point on the front RST One?

QMS, Holy crap! You bomber looks tough. Like something I would see from a modern day re-make of Mad Max Road Warrior. Sweet!

Rix
 
Rix said:
Paul, thanks for the info about the real world test witht DBs and Bricks. Sound like I will definately need to pedal when climbing.

Kepler how much PSI is the rear shock rated for? I had a 2010 specialized enduro with a simliar rear fox shock (Fox RP2?), I ran 265 PSI in that and it never blew on me. That shock didn't have the external reservoir though. I am sure the shock stroke ratio was different and my fighter has just a little over twice the weight as the specialized enduro. Taking your advise, I will start out at 200 PSI and tune from there. Any suggestions for starting point on the front RST One?

QMS, Holy crap! You bomber looks tough. Like something I would see from a modern day re-make of Mad Max Road Warrior. Sweet!

Rix
Click to expand...

Cheers Rix :mrgreen:
 
Took a ride out today that ended with a 35mph Fighter going through a fence, it really was a full speed accident. Bike held up really well but Whizzkid looks very second hand at the moment, lots of blood and then fingers pointing in the wrong direction until popped back in! :oops:
 
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