John in CR
100 TW
Unfortunately booby traps will just end up getting you in big trouble. The last thing you want to do is have legal trouble or have to pay damages to some would-be thief who hurt himself trying to steal your bike.
ebike insurance
- Thread starter monster
- Start date
GPS seems like the most dependable anti-theft measure to me. Only problem is there tends to be 2 very expensive parts, the bike w/ motor, and the detachable battery, so could potentially lose the one that doesn't have the GPS tracking. Also nice that is the measure most likely to allow the thieves to get arrested.
scouser-nick:)
10 W
hi guys & gals i was wondering what do insurance company's class electric motorcycles as?
and what would be my best bet for a first time conversion?
cheers nick
and what would be my best bet for a first time conversion?
cheers nick
Lessss
1 MW
As a motorcycle.
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
In the UK it's a bit complex. If the donor bike (assuming it's a conversion) is a particular class of motorcycle, then in general terms it retains that category when converted to electric power. This has some odd consequences. For example, my RD50 conversion was still classed as a moped, even though I fitted a motor capable of delivering around 7 or 8hp and comfortably exceeding the 30mph speed restriction that the bike would have originally had.
DVLA haven't yet caught up with the nuances of electric motorcycle conversions, and there is no need (at the moment) to put the converted bike through MSVA, as long as you retain the original frame, suspension and wheels.
In terms of insurance, then you need to inform your insurance company of all the mods, but the specialist bike insurers don't seem to load the premiums for electric conversions to any significant degree.
Jeremy
DVLA haven't yet caught up with the nuances of electric motorcycle conversions, and there is no need (at the moment) to put the converted bike through MSVA, as long as you retain the original frame, suspension and wheels.
In terms of insurance, then you need to inform your insurance company of all the mods, but the specialist bike insurers don't seem to load the premiums for electric conversions to any significant degree.
Jeremy
scouser-nick:)
10 W
Lessss said:
didnt think of that! heheah ok so if i convert a cbr600 they will still class it as a 600cc motorcycle? hmmm time to find me a 50cc hehe any frames you can recomend that lend them selves to the conversion?
if its posible i would like to convert a aprillia rs50 as there quite nice looking a fit me very well!
cheers nick
liveforphysics
100 TW
RS50 is a fantastic choice. One of the best possible if you don't mind the aggressive rider position.
scouser-nick:)
10 W
yay 
think i can pick one of them up quite cheap as before i found out people where converting bikes to electric i was looking at RS50's
my only problem is what components should i be using? ive a little experience with electronics (can solder and make simple circuits/wiring diagrams) but no idea what bit's id need or what people are on about when there talking about "deep charges" or discharges?
i think im gunna need alot of help along the way so sorry if you get annoyed with my questions!!
cheers nick
think i can pick one of them up quite cheap as before i found out people where converting bikes to electric i was looking at RS50's my only problem is what components should i be using? ive a little experience with electronics (can solder and make simple circuits/wiring diagrams) but no idea what bit's id need or what people are on about when there talking about "deep charges" or discharges?
i think im gunna need alot of help along the way so sorry if you get annoyed with my questions!!
cheers nick
Jeremy Harris
100 MW
RS50 would be a good choice, as you can almost certainly keep it categorised as a moped if you're canny. DVLA won't ask too many questions as to power and speed, in my experience. This makes a fair difference to insurance too, as most companies will look more kindly on a moped (although you'll need to declare all the mods).
Jeremy
Jeremy
scouser-nick:)
10 W
i think this conversion will be a wile off after a short talk with my dad i think it might be a better idea to convert an mtb first so i have some know-how before i take the plunge does this sound about right or will they be totally different?
Lock
100 MW
This ain't anything to do with ebikes, but gas motorcycles...
I just thought the promo pics... amusing...
http://www.cherriecheesecake.com/ebike-insurance.html
10cK
I just thought the promo pics... amusing...
http://www.cherriecheesecake.com/ebike-insurance.html
10cK
HombreNeuvoElectro
10 W
Hi All,
I wanted to raise the topic on insurance implications of ebike usage.
For a long time i have used normal bikes and ebikes to make my commute to work, but one thing which stands out to me is how dangerous some of the drivers on the roads can be. I am always wide awake when on the road and always try to judge situations before they arrive. Never rely on the driver to see you. This is something that has kept me safe in everything i do cycling wise.
Now that i am in the 25mph plus ebike league i have moved into another ballpark.
But one thing i would really like to discuss is the potential insurance implications of ebike usage where regulations are ignored.
My commute will soon take me along small, dark roads and while i will be well lit up it only takes for one tired, drunk or otherwise engaged drive to cause a whole world of pain.
But where would this leave me on insurance?
Here in the Eu there is 250w power limit (crazy and therefore should be ignored). A 250w bike in the hands of a lunatic is a lot more dangerous than someone responsible commuting to work.
So my question is would an accident on an ebike specced outside regs be enough to void life, mortgage insurance policies ?
I hope there are maybe experts in the field that could shed some light on this subject as if it would void them, then we are all taking really big risks not to simply buy and factory built electric scooter and use that for commuting.
I wanted to raise the topic on insurance implications of ebike usage.
For a long time i have used normal bikes and ebikes to make my commute to work, but one thing which stands out to me is how dangerous some of the drivers on the roads can be. I am always wide awake when on the road and always try to judge situations before they arrive. Never rely on the driver to see you. This is something that has kept me safe in everything i do cycling wise.
Now that i am in the 25mph plus ebike league i have moved into another ballpark.
But one thing i would really like to discuss is the potential insurance implications of ebike usage where regulations are ignored.
My commute will soon take me along small, dark roads and while i will be well lit up it only takes for one tired, drunk or otherwise engaged drive to cause a whole world of pain.
But where would this leave me on insurance?
Here in the Eu there is 250w
power limit (crazy and therefore should be ignored). A 250w bike in the hands of a lunatic is a lot more dangerous than someone responsible commuting to work.So my question is would an accident on an ebike specced outside regs be enough to void life, mortgage insurance policies ?
I hope there are maybe experts in the field that could shed some light on this subject as if it would void them, then we are all taking really big risks not to simply buy and factory built electric scooter and use that for commuting.
Philistine
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,736
Crashing an illegal ebike would alsmost certainly not void a life insurance policy, but it might make the claim processing protracted, and be a point of contention. It would depend on your policy itself, and your insurance company (they massively differ in the defensiveness they carry out in honouring their policies). It would also depend on how the accident was recorded.
Let's say it was an accident in which you didn't die (eg TPD or income protection insurance). Unless the police report of the event has you charged with a crime, and notes the fact you are riding an illegal ebike, it would simply never come up. The investigator would not even know you were riding an ebike (as opposed to a normal bike) unless it was reported in the police report etc.. And an ES member in Australia recently had a nasty crash with a car (not his fault) and he was riding a high powered ebike, and the cops didn't even note it.
If you die, it is much the same. They may try and argue that you failed to disclose that you undertook a particular type of risky activity, but it all depends on your policy terms.
But it is a good question, because insurance companies are A-holes. That is the whole reason I pay increased premiums on my life insurance, as a declared "smoker" even though I never touch cigarettes, (but do like smoking), in case I ever get lung cancer.
I have told this story on ES before (everyone will be shocked to know the word Anal will appear in the tale), but I often sit in with clients talking to insurance brokers, and in Australia there is a standard policy question that goes like this (and you have to remember that this will usually be a husband and wife, and the broker will warn them very clearly that they must answer all questions with the utmost honesty, with no room for failure to disclose):
Q) Have you ever worked as a sex worker, engaged the services of a sex worker, or engaged in anal sexual play?
The wife always answers "No" without hesitating or skipping a beat, then you watch hubby squirm and move in his chair, you can see that he is upset at the injustice of the fact that the question is not broken into multiple parts, and ends with a term of very vague meaning.... and then you see him just give in and say "No" (he always looks over at me at that point as if to say "Can we talk about this later")..... :lol:
Let's say it was an accident in which you didn't die (eg TPD or income protection insurance). Unless the police report of the event has you charged with a crime, and notes the fact you are riding an illegal ebike, it would simply never come up. The investigator would not even know you were riding an ebike (as opposed to a normal bike) unless it was reported in the police report etc.. And an ES member in Australia recently had a nasty crash with a car (not his fault) and he was riding a high powered ebike, and the cops didn't even note it.
If you die, it is much the same. They may try and argue that you failed to disclose that you undertook a particular type of risky activity, but it all depends on your policy terms.
But it is a good question, because insurance companies are A-holes. That is the whole reason I pay increased premiums on my life insurance, as a declared "smoker" even though I never touch cigarettes, (but do like smoking), in case I ever get lung cancer.
I have told this story on ES before (everyone will be shocked to know the word Anal will appear in the tale), but I often sit in with clients talking to insurance brokers, and in Australia there is a standard policy question that goes like this (and you have to remember that this will usually be a husband and wife, and the broker will warn them very clearly that they must answer all questions with the utmost honesty, with no room for failure to disclose):
Q) Have you ever worked as a sex worker, engaged the services of a sex worker, or engaged in anal sexual play?
The wife always answers "No" without hesitating or skipping a beat, then you watch hubby squirm and move in his chair, you can see that he is upset at the injustice of the fact that the question is not broken into multiple parts, and ends with a term of very vague meaning.... and then you see him just give in and say "No" (he always looks over at me at that point as if to say "Can we talk about this later")..... :lol:
dogman dan
1 PW
Good question.
They could be voided, if you get hurt or die commiting a major crime. Say you blow yourself up for example.
I sort of doubt that would be the case in minor crime like overpowered ebike. Likely the equivilant of a crime like speeding or being drunk. The only person who could answer your questions would be your actual insurance agent. Each policy could be quite different.
For example, my house insurance covers all the junk I have in my garage. But it won't cover an aircraft. Too pricy, so my hot air balloon is not covered if my garage burned. Any policy will have some kind of exceptions listed such as my house policy has for aircraft.
You could just read your policies, and try to understand them. The execeptions might be listed in an understandable way, like "not covered for death caused by falling space debris" or "not covered if accident occurs while committing a felony".
They could be voided, if you get hurt or die commiting a major crime. Say you blow yourself up for example.
I sort of doubt that would be the case in minor crime like overpowered ebike. Likely the equivilant of a crime like speeding or being drunk. The only person who could answer your questions would be your actual insurance agent. Each policy could be quite different.
For example, my house insurance covers all the junk I have in my garage. But it won't cover an aircraft. Too pricy, so my hot air balloon is not covered if my garage burned. Any policy will have some kind of exceptions listed such as my house policy has for aircraft.
You could just read your policies, and try to understand them. The execeptions might be listed in an understandable way, like "not covered for death caused by falling space debris" or "not covered if accident occurs while committing a felony".
Philistine
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,736
Good point, but I always took the view with all the motorbikes I have ever owned, I never owned third party property insurance, because I figured if I somehow did enough damage for it to be a problem, I would be long gone. I think that is even more true for an Ebike. If you have done serious panel damage to a car, it is probably from your moist body, not your ebike. In which case, I wouldn't be too worried about being sued for the costs.....
Having said that, I have always structured my affairs such that I don't legally own anything at all, so living or dead, me and my estate are effectively immune to litigation. You have to make sure you have that part right to run that kind of strategy.
arkmundi
10 MW
Good question and some descent answers, so ditto all that. Another persepective is that if you're in the 25+ league, then you're a risk taker, so assume that risk. I purposely stayed in the 20less league to avoid multiple issues, including any liability (in Massachusetts its a 20mph limit, so I'm a pedestrian). With regards to insurance as a "moped" I'm sure there must be standard policies that cover liability (which should be low). The real reason to have an insurance carrier on the road is to have a team of competent attorneys who, in the case of an accident, will work hard to make sure the other guy pays. Its all a blame laying game and whoever is less to blame wins.
You don't want to be unprepared, and time will be of the essence, and not having a legal team behind you at the time of the accident means you may loose. Yes, without liability, in certain accidents you could loose any assets, including your home. For instance, someone swerves to avoid you and ends up doing some real damage, to themselves and/or others. You're found to be at fault. Without the liability insurance, you must pay. Accidents can be very expensive. Say there is $1million in damages and your assets are less - you loose everything.
You don't want to be unprepared, and time will be of the essence, and not having a legal team behind you at the time of the accident means you may loose. Yes, without liability, in certain accidents you could loose any assets, including your home. For instance, someone swerves to avoid you and ends up doing some real damage, to themselves and/or others. You're found to be at fault. Without the liability insurance, you must pay. Accidents can be very expensive. Say there is $1million in damages and your assets are less - you loose everything.
Philistine said:
Fair point, although I was thinking more if you run down a pedestrian. I guess you must live in a fairly liberal place, because in some countries (like here in the UK) third party liability insurance is a legal requirement to ride a motorcycle/moped on the road.
Philistine
100 kW
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2010
- Messages
- 1,736
I thought you meant third party property (which is optional). Yes, in Australia, to operate any registered vehicle there is compulsory third party injury, but ebikes don't fall in that category. Which is what we are talking about. I agree that technically if you injured a pedestrian, and they worked out you were on an illegal ebike, they could sue you personally, but I don't see that as a real threat (particularly if you have made yourself immune to litigation, which I suggest everyone do).
But you are totally right, if you hurt a pedestrian and they understood you were on an illegal ebike, technically you would be legally screwed. But litigation (in Australia at least) rarely works that way. Noone bothers suing normal people, because most people don't have the kind of assets needed to even meet the costs of the litigation let alone the damages. People tend to look for deeper pockets.
it's been a while since I did the checking, but I couldn't even find an insurance company willing to insure my bike (electric or not), for anything other than the theft/etc. insurance that often is part of homeowner's or renter's insurance. I coudlnt' get any insurance separately just for the bike(s), and none would insure for any kind of road-use or accidents. None would do it as if it were a motorcycle or moped either, as they want the model, year, and VIN.
I did actually find a couple of flybynight companies out-of-state that claimed they would insure it, but I could nto find any information about these companies except on their own websites.
I also did find a couple of companies that would basicaly insure anything, for the right price, but the payments would have been more than my annual income, and I'm not sure that they would have paid out for anything.
What companies are people finding today that will insure an ebike for road use, as if it were car or motorcycle insurance, and where are you (and the companies) at? What is the cost, and for what coverage? And what is the experience for difficulty and time of payouts?
I did actually find a couple of flybynight companies out-of-state that claimed they would insure it, but I could nto find any information about these companies except on their own websites.
I also did find a couple of companies that would basicaly insure anything, for the right price, but the payments would have been more than my annual income, and I'm not sure that they would have paid out for anything.
What companies are people finding today that will insure an ebike for road use, as if it were car or motorcycle insurance, and where are you (and the companies) at? What is the cost, and for what coverage? And what is the experience for difficulty and time of payouts?
dogman dan
1 PW
More and more noobs are showing up here, talking about building for 40-50 mph and street riding it.
In many USA states, just going above 20 mph makes you an unregistered, UNINSURED, homemade motorcycle riding on the street. It is something to consider, how much more you might get sued in an accident when your ride is called a motorcycle rather than a bicycle. Just the tickets can be a bit of change.
It would help of course, if you don't cause the accident. But lots of cops write up accidents completely wrong.
In many USA states, just going above 20 mph makes you an unregistered, UNINSURED, homemade motorcycle riding on the street. It is something to consider, how much more you might get sued in an accident when your ride is called a motorcycle rather than a bicycle. Just the tickets can be a bit of change.
It would help of course, if you don't cause the accident. But lots of cops write up accidents completely wrong.
docnjoj
1 GW
Interestingly enought the write up of an accident can go both ways. When my wife had her final 2 wheeler accident (we ride trikes now) a guy stopped to help and call 911. It was in town and immediately many heighbors came out to see and help. The cops arrived in about 2 minutes and kept asking me and Joyce "Did that car hit you" about 4 or 5 times before they were satisfied. In Fairhope the police are very protective of bike riders even thought out bike paths could be better. That poor guy was really getting anxious. Yes we are old and know the cops but even so it was interesting to see this MO. The ambulance arrives about 3 minutes later and they were still getting this poor guys name and address. I finally had to step over and just say "He was helping and had nothing to do with her accident." She just fell over".
otherDoc
otherDoc
arkmundi
10 MW
I hate it when something you write & read about happens. I got hit today by a car. I believe I was lucky as I'm still bodily whole and breathing. I have yet to seek medical care but will today or tomorrow. I can walk, but my left hip, which took the impact hurts a lot. As it turns out there was a policeman walking up the block that saw it all. Not only, but he himself is a bikecyclist and was involved in a similar accident with a car hitting him. So the best kind of witness possible. I'm thinking about what to do.
Part of me wants to sue. Not just to cover medical costs and damage to my bike (real wheel is bent), but real damages. This is the situation where a driver is pulling into traffic, not looking and seeing me and running into me - 100% his fault - no question of liability. We are not considered a "bike friendly" city, with designated bike lanes and so forth. The only way to change attitdues is if drivers are held to the fullest account. What should my damages be? Obviously more than medical and bike. How much more? How much to become a message? Give me a number - I'm taking a poll Thanks. 
OK got back from the hospital where they took xrays and looked me over. No broken bones! Which is a relief. Deep concusion. Means pain for 3-4 weeks until it heals. Hard to walk on it, even on pain meds. Vicodin and Motrin combined.
Part of me wants to sue. Not just to cover medical costs and damage to my bike (real wheel is bent), but real damages. This is the situation where a driver is pulling into traffic, not looking and seeing me and running into me - 100% his fault - no question of liability. We are not considered a "bike friendly" city, with designated bike lanes and so forth. The only way to change attitdues is if drivers are held to the fullest account. What should my damages be? Obviously more than medical and bike. How much more? How much to become a message? Give me a number - I'm taking a poll
Thanks. OK got back from the hospital where they took xrays and looked me over. No broken bones! Which is a relief. Deep concusion. Means pain for 3-4 weeks until it heals. Hard to walk on it, even on pain meds. Vicodin and Motrin combined.
ohzee
100 kW
Damn glad you are ok for the most part. Glad you have a good wittness as well that will be priceless if you move forward.
Id say go to a dr see what they say and move from there.. I know a lot of times tho if it's just bruising and not broken bones
it's hard to prove anything. Anyway GL
Id say go to a dr see what they say and move from there.. I know a lot of times tho if it's just bruising and not broken bones
it's hard to prove anything. Anyway GL
arkmundi
10 MW
Thanks for the kind attention. Best.ohzee said:
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