High speed ebikes. Why?

[John in CR]

College campuses should ban cars anyway. It solves all of the problems cars create. If that's impossible, then just lower the speed limit to 15mph and enforce it. Anyone in more of a hurry can find an alternate route that goes around campus.

Drivers in a hurry are typically already late anyway, which is the wrong time. I always tell them the time to be in a hurry is before they leave, not after.

 

[sk8norcal]

Fast ebikes weren't needed in China, because it was already congested with slow pedestrian and pedal bike traffic. The slow low power regulations were only the result of pedalists being the only organized voice of influence involved in setting the rules, and China was only building the low power stuff anyway.

I don't think that's true from what i read,
most chinese don't pedal any more..
complaints about ebike speed (from pedestrians) resulted in government threatening to set a lower speed limit and registration but was met with mass disapproval
with china banning gas scooters in major cities, they need faster ebikes ....

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20161&hilit=+china

 

[John in CR]

Fast ebikes weren't needed in China, because it was already congested with slow pedestrian and pedal bike traffic. The slow low power regulations were only the result of pedalists being the only organized voice of influence involved in setting the rules, and China was only building the low power stuff anyway.

I don't think that's true from what i read,
most chinese don't pedal any more..
complaints about ebike speed (from pedestrians) resulted in government threatening to set a lower speed limit and registration but was met with mass disapproval....

Exactly, and that's the slow-ass china ebikes that people were complaining about going too fast for conditions.

 

[Kingfish]

In perspective to the OP…

My local bike shop says my DH frame can take 60 mph and remain steady. However I won’t make it there on 9C hubs and inexpensive off-the-shelf controllers. The engineering challenge for me is that high-speed is synonymous with high-efficiency if we’re going to have control over heat and develop any kind of range. At the moment I am staying with my fast ebike setup as a platform which allows me to pedal and exercise; in essence a primary reason why I ride it whilst hiding the supreme factors well-stated by Luke. However, if I were to create a purpose-built machine for constant speeds > 50mph I might as well design from the ground up for a street-motorcycle that can take me to greater realms with impunity, and in doing so it too would become a research platform for the next epic challenge.

I just want to add one small tasty carrot about pedaling an enhanced-electric bike: Aside from becoming (for good or bad) an interesting object of attention, there is a unique, almost superhuman thrill as the body is augmented to perform at ever-increasing levels: It is addictively fun as well as sporting in the dare to comingle with traffic and populace, manifesting as the ultimate urban obstacle course that is tactically more challenging that any DH ride I can think of (while being mindful of public safety…)

Think it far better of us to try, to push the envelope, and advance our human condition, for the Pantheon waits for no mere mortal.
~KF

 

[number1cruncher]

Why not?

If your argument is that they are dangerous, then don't ride one. If you are concerned your local officials are going to ban all ebikes because of a few fast ones, vote the imbeciles out of office.

To assume that every creation you see on this site is being ridden on the road is short-sighted. Do you assume that all ice dirt bikes are ridden on the road? Of course not, because they are special purpose vehicles.

I am getting tired of nanny-state tactics that add no value to our society. Maybe we should make bleach illegal because it could be consumed by an idiot? Or make water illegal because we may all drown in it? Where does this nonsense stop? :x

Did you read my initial post?

Yes, you said,

"But if we continue to push for higher speed we will no doubt attract the attention of the law and everyone will suffer in terms of harassment, registration and possibly insurance.

I was responding to this group think statement. I do not care what idiots think. I care what is true.

Why are you so defensive?

The same could be asked of you. I merely provided my thoughts on the subject. I was not directing my comments at you, just stupid people that partake in group think.

And please, do not talk to me about voting politicians out of the office. People who talk big like yourself are the least likely to vote.

I vote every election. Above that I am a performance auditor who frequently gets in the face of government officials to tell them that they are doing a poor job, backed up by a written audit report.

Save your big, vulgar language for face to face conversation, you might find out that people don't like it and have a way to respond to it.

Ummm, I use the langauge above quite often in face to face conversations. I do not consider imbecile, short-sighted, nanny-state or idiot to be vulgar. Maybe disrespectful, but not vulgar.

Am I completely out of line here? What's your take?

Sorry I offended you. That was not my intention. I was half playing devil's advocate, half venting my frustration with nanny-state/group think logic. Next time I will assume you are either talking to yourself or are asking rhetorical questions.

 

[stump]

The engineering challenge for me is that high-speed is synonymous with high-efficiency if we’re going to have control over heat and develop any kind of range. At the moment I am staying with my fast ebike setup as a platform which allows me to pedal and exercise; in essence a primary reason why I ride it whilst hiding the supreme factors well-stated by Luke.
~KF

A good reason to consider going the recumbent/trike/velomobile route - remember power required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as the cube of the speed, so why waste power? Also with low drag your own muscle power makes a bigger difference, unlike a fast ebike...

 

[liveforphysics]

A good reason to consider going the recumbent/trike/velomobile route - remember power required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as the cube of the speed, so why waste power? Also with low drag your own muscle power makes a bigger difference, unlike a fast ebike...

I absolutely agree a recumbent body position makes sense for on-road travel in so many ways, but I don't know if my face and neck are capable of growing a beard of the required bushiness to operate one.

 

[oldpiper]

A good reason to consider going the recumbent/trike/velomobile route - remember power required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as the cube of the speed, so why waste power? Also with low drag your own muscle power makes a bigger difference, unlike a fast ebike...

I absolutely agree a recumbent body position makes sense for on-road travel in so many ways, but I don't know if my face and neck are capable of growing a beard of the required bushiness to operate one.

Haven't you heard of the amazing Chia beard?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAYpoiN94n4&NR=1

Cameron

 

[Doctorbass]

The engineering challenge for me is that high-speed is synonymous with high-efficiency if we’re going to have control over heat and develop any kind of range. At the moment I am staying with my fast ebike setup as a platform which allows me to pedal and exercise; in essence a primary reason why I ride it whilst hiding the supreme factors well-stated by Luke.
~KF

A good reason to consider going the recumbent/trike/velomobile route - remember power required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as the cube of the speed, so why waste power? Also with low drag your own muscle power makes a bigger difference, unlike a fast ebike...

I agree too on the lower position and more efficient results.. but
One day you should REALLY try one of these fast powerfull ebikes. Everyone that try them , just come back with a large smile on their face and ask how they can get one... Lycra bikers too!! :wink:

Doc

 

[gtadmin]

A good reason to consider going the recumbent/trike/velomobile route - remember power required to overcome aerodynamic drag increases as the cube of the speed, so why waste power? Also with low drag your own muscle power makes a bigger difference, unlike a fast ebike...

I absolutely agree a recumbent body position makes sense for on-road travel in so many ways, but I don't know if my face and neck are capable of growing a beard of the required bushiness to operate one.

:lol: :lol: I qualify then (even though my bike [1] is not strictly recumbent)

 

[John in CR]

Full fairings for setting records or competitions...sure, absolutely, but for a daily rider I think we need the size and weight of something like a Monotracer. Ebikes aren't power limited to very low levels like an HPV, so why bother with the noise and heat inside a full fairing?

I look at fairings as something desirable for protection from the elements, not speed. Sam Whittingham went airborne in his velomobile at about 70mph and that had to be in very light breezes. On a dead calm day and open road, a fully faired ebike with the power we're already running would be a blast, but not in normal conditions on real roads.

 

[MadRhino]

I always ride upright, and standing when it gets rough, at high speed in the trails. I never felt the need for protection against the elements, other than cloth and googles. I like the wind, it's a big part of the thrill of riding. The rain and the snow don't keep me off biking, I don't even wear a helmet at -20.

A fairing is another game, I know it's good, just not my ride.

 

[wineboyrider]

I like the wind, it's a big part of the thrill of riding.

That's why so many motorcyclists love open fairings!
I love open unobstructed riding for short trips, but for long ones nothing beats a little wind relief..

 

[John in CR]

MadRhino,

I'm with you on loving the wind, but you're also talking about sport riding not transportation, and it sounds like low pedalist speeds not high. I'll leave the rain to someone else whenever possible, because I don't care how you slice it bringing a couple of kids to school on a bike in the rain ain't fun. Neither is getting pelted by big rain drops at 40-50mph assuming you have good and clear enough road to go that fast in the wet. Those are the times I want a shell over me, and I don't want to have to slow to 5mph and cover with an umbrella like some of the bike for transport parents do around here. By rainy season I'll have some kind of shell, probably on a trike, and probably not a speedy vehicle, just an enclosed etrike.

 

[MadRhino]

Yep, everyone's ride is different. I commute only 2 miles and it's in town, wouldn't really need the E-bike for it, even with the steep hill. My ride is sport, replaces the motocross and enduros that I've been riding all my life, and combines with freeride racing that I also liked alot. I was already riding 40 mph in the mountains without a motor, but I needed to travel my bikes in a pickup truck to get a big mountain with chairlift. Now I can ride at will the nearby mountains that don't have facilities, cause I can climb them with E-power.

The E-bike gives me the best of both worlds: Motorized sport without gas, noize and grease; mountain riding without the need to travel far away. As a bonus, I have the feeling of riding a lightweight motocross in town, without the cops on my back.

 

[John in CR]

And it's only going to get better as batteries, motors, and controllers get smaller and more powerful. Batteries especially have some big jumps left in them. Other than gov't meddling with rules ebikers have nothing but great stuff to look forward to.

 

[auraslip]

And it's only going to get better as batteries, motors, and controllers get smaller and more powerful. Batteries especially have some big jumps left in them. Other than gov't meddling with rules ebikers have nothing but great stuff to look forward to.

I was thinking about that today; don't hub motors seem so primitive? There is so much room to grow. Just think of all the minor upgrades some of us have made in the diy crowd like torque arms, proper ventilation, temp sensors, and anti-theft systems.

I'm looking forward to a CVT hub motor with built in water cooling, integrated torque arms, and variable regenerative braking. Also that thing where the stator moves in and out of the magnets to adjust for maximum efficiency.