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Kawasaki KE100 conversion
- Thread starter veloman
- Start date
Modbikemax
1 kW
veloman said:
I see your concern about the brakes. I doubt it was that quick on petrol.
I made some side plates for the Leaf modules to keep them compressed. I didn't know this was important until recently. Hopefully the cells are not damaged. I was easy on them, 2-3c peak.
Today I upped the power to 50% or 300a peak. I did a video of 0-55mph acceleration. Took 11 seconds. Then I later topped it out for the first time - hit 66mph. That's a bit higher than I had calculated with my 16-56 gear ratio. Not many places to do a legal, flat, straight 0-60 around here, but I'll get some more video in time. Kelly really hurts my acceleration off the line though. I eased up on the throttle as I got above 40mph to keep my 300a fuse from blowing, and also I still need to upgrade my weak link 8awg wire (only about 10 inches of it, but still). The 50a Anderson PP is doing great, barely gets warm with these surges. I saw 16.5kw peak. Now it's getting pretty fun and very capable to shoot through traffic. At 240amps, the Leaf cells dropped to 72.6volts, or 10% sag - at 4c. I feel pretty good about that.
I'm trying to find a simple video editor to cut the video down to a reasonable length. At 10min length, it was taking hours to upload on youtube. The camera is very shaky and the CA is hard to read most of the time (no backlight).
Well it's nice to know I definitely have a faster bike than stock now. Still not going to drag race any performance vehicle, but it's fast enough. In time I think I will upgrade the wiring on the battery lead to 4awg or so, and up amps to 400-500.
Today I upped the power to 50% or 300a peak. I did a video of 0-55mph acceleration. Took 11 seconds. Then I later topped it out for the first time - hit 66mph. That's a bit higher than I had calculated with my 16-56 gear ratio. Not many places to do a legal, flat, straight 0-60 around here, but I'll get some more video in time. Kelly really hurts my acceleration off the line though. I eased up on the throttle as I got above 40mph to keep my 300a fuse from blowing, and also I still need to upgrade my weak link 8awg wire (only about 10 inches of it, but still). The 50a Anderson PP is doing great, barely gets warm with these surges. I saw 16.5kw peak. Now it's getting pretty fun and very capable to shoot through traffic. At 240amps, the Leaf cells dropped to 72.6volts, or 10% sag - at 4c. I feel pretty good about that.
I'm trying to find a simple video editor to cut the video down to a reasonable length. At 10min length, it was taking hours to upload on youtube. The camera is very shaky and the CA is hard to read most of the time (no backlight).
Well it's nice to know I definitely have a faster bike than stock now. Still not going to drag race any performance vehicle, but it's fast enough. In time I think I will upgrade the wiring on the battery lead to 4awg or so, and up amps to 400-500.
I got some 20wt fork oil. I"m going to drain the fork legs, weld on a bracket for a disc brake on the right leg, and also replace the fork seals.
Also need to space the right rear shock out a few more mm, and the rear sprocket as well. Chain line seems to be pulling the front sprocket into the motor as it is right now. The chain is also too close to the frame, and rubs often.
I want to add a removable rear end stiffener shock. Something i can just add for when I ride with my wife, and leave off when it's just me. Like a small 100lb 4" travel shock, to just one side.
Lately I was noticing an occasional motor cutout or hiccup when starting hard from a stop. Thought it was a worn brush. I remove the plastic cover on the motor and one of the brush's wire is just hanging there with the bolt unscrewed all the way.
Also need to space the right rear shock out a few more mm, and the rear sprocket as well. Chain line seems to be pulling the front sprocket into the motor as it is right now. The chain is also too close to the frame, and rubs often.
I want to add a removable rear end stiffener shock. Something i can just add for when I ride with my wife, and leave off when it's just me. Like a small 100lb 4" travel shock, to just one side.
Lately I was noticing an occasional motor cutout or hiccup when starting hard from a stop. Thought it was a worn brush. I remove the plastic cover on the motor and one of the brush's wire is just hanging there with the bolt unscrewed all the way.
ksithumper
100 mW
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2014
- Messages
- 45
veloman said:
Be careful, you can very easily distort the bore, effectively scrapping the fork leg. Keeping it cool when welding is key. Afterward, make sure the fork stroke remains absolutely free.
ksithumper said:
Thanks for the heads up.
I'm still on the lookout for 30mm fork legs with a disc caliper mount, such as an early 2000 model TTR 125. I think the big wheel version is the one with front discs. It's looking like I may have to go that route, if I can't get these damn fork seals out of my KE forks. I have WD40 sitting on top of them for the past couple days. The washer above them took a lot of work to get out. So much rust.
I made some progress on my forks!
I finally got the seals out - took some chiseling with a small flat head screwdriver (between the seal and the fork lower, not the tube! since obviously that is not where the seals were rust-bonded). I used the push-pull method, with the fork lower clamped in a vise. I got a nice spray of old fork oil shooting out when it broke free. :lol:
Cleaned everything up with mineral spirits.
Now I prepared the disc caliper mounting arm for welding. I will need to add a spacer to the left of the steel plate, but that is easy. I wanted the plate to be centered on the backside of the fork lower so that my welds would be more likely to succeed, and it just seems to be a better attachment spot, structurally. - I am rethinking the placement and size of the plate. If I put it closer to the inside to avoid needing a spacer, I will use a larger plate (and perhaps 1/4" instead of 3/16"), and bevel the edge so it sits flush.
As you can see in the pics, the bottom is held by a brace that attaches at the axle hole. I will likely keep that there for lateral support. At the top of the plate, I will probably add another lateral support by welding a small piece of steel perpendicular to it.
This is a Ninja 250 brake. The wheel is a YZ 85 17". It uses a 12mm axle, so I will need to bore out the axle holes on the fork by 2mm. There is plenty of meat there.
To prevent warping, I will preheat the entire piece with a MAP torch and take long breaks in-between lines, alternating sections. I was advised that filling the tube with water may result in poor welds since the metal may not heat enough.
I got some 20w oil to use when I rebuild the forks, and of course new seals. I hope the heavy oil is enough to stiffen up the forks. Anything should be better than that black junk that came out (oil level was really low - you can hear these squeak like mad when I was riding it).
Now to see if I can get my cheap Harbor Freight welder to feed the wire steadily.... Having the wire get stuck or pause kind of kills your ability to do a clean/decent weld...
I've also since installed a 500amp fuse and upgraded the battery wire to the controller to 6 awg. There is also a 12 awg wire with 30a Anderson (which I use for my charge port) that I can connect. So that ups my rating to 80a continuous. (50a PP + 30a PP). That's about 6kw battery draw, so good for even highway riding, as long as I'm not climbing a mtn at top speed. It's the peak, which I expect to see over 300a, that I am cautious about. I upped the Kelly to 60% power, which would be 360a peak. But I can't ever see drawing 20kw for more than 5 seconds so I think all is good.
I finally got the seals out - took some chiseling with a small flat head screwdriver (between the seal and the fork lower, not the tube! since obviously that is not where the seals were rust-bonded). I used the push-pull method, with the fork lower clamped in a vise. I got a nice spray of old fork oil shooting out when it broke free. :lol:
Cleaned everything up with mineral spirits.
Now I prepared the disc caliper mounting arm for welding. I will need to add a spacer to the left of the steel plate, but that is easy. I wanted the plate to be centered on the backside of the fork lower so that my welds would be more likely to succeed, and it just seems to be a better attachment spot, structurally. - I am rethinking the placement and size of the plate. If I put it closer to the inside to avoid needing a spacer, I will use a larger plate (and perhaps 1/4" instead of 3/16"), and bevel the edge so it sits flush.
As you can see in the pics, the bottom is held by a brace that attaches at the axle hole. I will likely keep that there for lateral support. At the top of the plate, I will probably add another lateral support by welding a small piece of steel perpendicular to it.
This is a Ninja 250 brake. The wheel is a YZ 85 17". It uses a 12mm axle, so I will need to bore out the axle holes on the fork by 2mm. There is plenty of meat there.
To prevent warping, I will preheat the entire piece with a MAP torch and take long breaks in-between lines, alternating sections. I was advised that filling the tube with water may result in poor welds since the metal may not heat enough.
I got some 20w oil to use when I rebuild the forks, and of course new seals. I hope the heavy oil is enough to stiffen up the forks. Anything should be better than that black junk that came out (oil level was really low - you can hear these squeak like mad when I was riding it).
Now to see if I can get my cheap Harbor Freight welder to feed the wire steadily.... Having the wire get stuck or pause kind of kills your ability to do a clean/decent weld...
I've also since installed a 500amp fuse and upgraded the battery wire to the controller to 6 awg. There is also a 12 awg wire with 30a Anderson (which I use for my charge port) that I can connect. So that ups my rating to 80a continuous. (50a PP + 30a PP). That's about 6kw battery draw, so good for even highway riding, as long as I'm not climbing a mtn at top speed. It's the peak, which I expect to see over 300a, that I am cautious about. I upped the Kelly to 60% power, which would be 360a peak. But I can't ever see drawing 20kw for more than 5 seconds so I think all is good.
Attachments
I decided to have a local welding shop weld on my steel plate. Looks good, but it's a paperweight now. Fork leg gets stuck. I was warned and took the risk. A replacement leg on ebay is about $40, so not the end of the world.
Lessons learned trying to modify motorcycle parts! ugh. I've put so much time into this.
My option now is buy another right side KE100 fork leg, or continue in my search for a disc brake front end with perhaps a TTR fork. I have a feeling it's going to have more travel than I want.
Burning out..... :|
Lessons learned trying to modify motorcycle parts! ugh. I've put so much time into this.
My option now is buy another right side KE100 fork leg, or continue in my search for a disc brake front end with perhaps a TTR fork. I have a feeling it's going to have more travel than I want.
Burning out..... :|
Dauntless
100 TW
Two ways to go attaching the bracket for the disc brake. One assumes that the tube is aluminum and you're attaching aluminum. Brazing is at a lower temperature than welding.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/hts-2000-second-generation-fluxless-brazing-rod/
The other, if either the tube or the bracket or both are not aluminum. It'll be hotter, but at least some chance the tube won't get hot enough to warp.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ironsteel-repair/
I ponder the idea for bicycles that you have a whole separate bracket that mounts on the axle and bumpstops on the fork, not actually fused to anything. Not sure I want to try it on something that would go 70mph.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/hts-2000-second-generation-fluxless-brazing-rod/
The other, if either the tube or the bracket or both are not aluminum. It'll be hotter, but at least some chance the tube won't get hot enough to warp.
http://www.aluminumrepair.com/ironsteel-repair/
I ponder the idea for bicycles that you have a whole separate bracket that mounts on the axle and bumpstops on the fork, not actually fused to anything. Not sure I want to try it on something that would go 70mph.
Well, its steel. And its life or death, so it has to be 100% secure. The way I designed my essentially the same. Attach at axle, bumpstop on fork. But wanted to weld to fork for security.
I may be parting out this bike. Keeping the battery.
I may be parting out this bike. Keeping the battery.
It's all back together and I rode it today. Fork action is a lot smoother than before rebuilding, with the new oil and seals. The 20w oil doesn't seem to help stiffen it up, but that's not a main concern anymore. It does ride like butter over bumps!
There's some oil leaking, not sure if it's due to too much oil in the forks or what.
My plan right now is to get a cheap KE100 fork leg to replace the one I messed up. But also still look for TTR125 forks.
I'm also looking for a small cruiser bike to convert, like an Kawasaki Eliminator 125. I want to do a build with this big scooter hub I have, and change my battery layout. A cruiser position is almost like a recumbent with the feet forward and low seat. Would lend well to a full fairing.
There's some oil leaking, not sure if it's due to too much oil in the forks or what.
My plan right now is to get a cheap KE100 fork leg to replace the one I messed up. But also still look for TTR125 forks.
I'm also looking for a small cruiser bike to convert, like an Kawasaki Eliminator 125. I want to do a build with this big scooter hub I have, and change my battery layout. A cruiser position is almost like a recumbent with the feet forward and low seat. Would lend well to a full fairing.
I've been thinking of redesigning the motor placement and battery for the ke. Maybe try mounting the motor on the left side of swingarm like bidwell's el ninja. Then reconfigure the leaf modules into a 14x12x9" box that slides into the frame. It will be much easier to lift and handle the 90lbs when its a block vs my current side by side setup.
But I'm also looking at doing a completely new build. Picked up a ninja250 frame and forks for cheap yesterday. The fork tubes are not as heavy as i thought, only 13lbs for both. The frame with shock and swingarm is 50lbs. That's really not that bad. So i think a rolling chassis will only be about 30lbs heavier than my ke100 roller. That's well worth it for heavier duty suspension, more open space for battery in engine compartment, disc brakes and a frame that i can overload with cargo a lot more.
But I'm also looking at doing a completely new build. Picked up a ninja250 frame and forks for cheap yesterday. The fork tubes are not as heavy as i thought, only 13lbs for both. The frame with shock and swingarm is 50lbs. That's really not that bad. So i think a rolling chassis will only be about 30lbs heavier than my ke100 roller. That's well worth it for heavier duty suspension, more open space for battery in engine compartment, disc brakes and a frame that i can overload with cargo a lot more.
YES! I found a pair of ttr125 forks with disc mount for a good price finally. http://www.ebay.com/itm/2003-Yamaha-TTR-125L-125-TTR125L-Forks-/111653819905?hash=item19ff161601&vxp=mtr
I expect to have to make an adapater to fit the ninja250 caliper, or end up getting a ttr125 one.
My stock front brake on the KE is really annoying now. It's pulsating horribly, as if the pads are uneven. And dangerously weak. Sure, new pads would help, but that's throwing money at a front end that is still going to suck.
I reconfigured the entire drivetrain, battery, and controller placement. Will be updating with pics soon. Motor is on left side and mounted on swingarm.
I expect to have to make an adapater to fit the ninja250 caliper, or end up getting a ttr125 one.
My stock front brake on the KE is really annoying now. It's pulsating horribly, as if the pads are uneven. And dangerously weak. Sure, new pads would help, but that's throwing money at a front end that is still going to suck.
I reconfigured the entire drivetrain, battery, and controller placement. Will be updating with pics soon. Motor is on left side and mounted on swingarm.
I finally got all the parts for the front end swap to TTR forks and disc brake, with yz85 17" wheel.
Of course there is a new problem. There is not enough clearance between the rotor and the caliper mounting holes.
Right now the wheel is nicely centered in the forks. If I modify the spacers to accomadate the above, it will be off centered. I'm not sure I can make up for it with adjust the spokes. Oh, and the yz85 rotor is too thick for the TTR125 caliper.
What would you do?
Shave off that 3/16" from the fork's caliper mounts? Taking material off from the caliper would be worse as there is less there, and would reduce the threading.
I am REALLY close to selling every single motorcycle project (would probably have to give it away for free) and swearing off motorcycles. I am not a good engineer I am learning. I HATE working on motorcycles so much now. Yesterday I finished up the ex250 belly frame piece that is a stressed member and holds the battery. After welding it, the rear mounting holes are 1/4" off. My welds are horrible too. Then I went to test ride it and the damn Rmartin EVD controller/motor is giving me hell again. The steering lock on the ex250 so frocking tight it makes a simple 90 degree turn in my yard into a 10 point turn from hell.
Of course there is a new problem. There is not enough clearance between the rotor and the caliper mounting holes.
Right now the wheel is nicely centered in the forks. If I modify the spacers to accomadate the above, it will be off centered. I'm not sure I can make up for it with adjust the spokes. Oh, and the yz85 rotor is too thick for the TTR125 caliper.
What would you do?
Shave off that 3/16" from the fork's caliper mounts? Taking material off from the caliper would be worse as there is less there, and would reduce the threading.
I am REALLY close to selling every single motorcycle project (would probably have to give it away for free) and swearing off motorcycles. I am not a good engineer I am learning. I HATE working on motorcycles so much now. Yesterday I finished up the ex250 belly frame piece that is a stressed member and holds the battery. After welding it, the rear mounting holes are 1/4" off. My welds are horrible too. Then I went to test ride it and the damn Rmartin EVD controller/motor is giving me hell again. The steering lock on the ex250 so frocking tight it makes a simple 90 degree turn in my yard into a 10 point turn from hell.
Attachments
marcexec
1 kW
I know that feeling mate.
My third controller (blew up the first 2) arrived last week, just wiring it up now and will probably have to be content with 40 or 45A battery side, sill hoping I can fix one of the other two to have a usable bike (one motor gives it 50cc scooter performance at best & getting hot).
On the mechanical side I can't get the assembly of blanking plates oil-tight, so I have an EV that leaks (into the overflow, but still).
Still, hang in there. I forced myself into progressing by selling the ICE bike. Two weeks to get it to work or queue with the car
There are no problems that can't be solved with time and money
My third controller (blew up the first 2) arrived last week, just wiring it up now and will probably have to be content with 40 or 45A battery side, sill hoping I can fix one of the other two to have a usable bike (one motor gives it 50cc scooter performance at best & getting hot).
On the mechanical side I can't get the assembly of blanking plates oil-tight, so I have an EV that leaks (into the overflow, but still).
Still, hang in there. I forced myself into progressing by selling the ICE bike. Two weeks to get it to work or queue with the car
There are no problems that can't be solved with time and money
Speaking of leaking EVs, the stock fork tubes on the ke where leaking fork oil bad after I replaced the seals. Practically the hole front end of the bike was covering in a layer of fork oil. I had a puddle in my room where I parked it. Oil on tires is probably not a good thing.
I think part of the problem was the fork tubes were rusted at the seals, and I had to scrap like hell to get them out. Now the connection with the new seals is probably not great. Hopefully the ttr forks don't leak.
My plan right now is - just bought a yz80 caliper on ebay, new pads. Then maybe take it to a shop with my spare ex250 master cylinder and have them install a new brake line. I'm at the point where I rather just throw $100 at it to get it working right.
I think part of the problem was the fork tubes were rusted at the seals, and I had to scrap like hell to get them out. Now the connection with the new seals is probably not great. Hopefully the ttr forks don't leak.
My plan right now is - just bought a yz80 caliper on ebay, new pads. Then maybe take it to a shop with my spare ex250 master cylinder and have them install a new brake line. I'm at the point where I rather just throw $100 at it to get it working right.
Today is a glorious day folks.
With the help of Limey Bikes, I finally have an excellent front brake.
To sum up the parts:
ttr125L fork tubes (disc brake model) $80
yz80 front disc caliper $30
yz85 17" front wheel and rotor and axle spacers (modded to get the rotor centered in the caliper) $35
ttr125 front axle $8
new standard brake pads $6
2012 ex250 front brake master cylinder/lever (free takeoff from another bike I had)
Stainless steel braided hydraulic line installed by Limey Bikes, who also filled the brake fluid and bleed them. $85
That's $254 total. Would I do it again? Hell no. But I am very happy the bike is useable and not blasting fork oil off over itself.
I can actually come to a rapid stop now! And have nice selection of 17" street tires.
Though, with the leading axle fork, it's sort of a cruiser-like setup. Relaxed, but with wide steering lock. This means I will not be able to do a front nosecone like Craig Vetter.
Well the guys at the shop told me my bike - being a 100cc - is not legal on the interstates. I will have to read up more on that, though it does make sense. The stock KE100 struggles to do 60-65mph.
With the help of Limey Bikes, I finally have an excellent front brake.
To sum up the parts:
ttr125L fork tubes (disc brake model) $80
yz80 front disc caliper $30
yz85 17" front wheel and rotor and axle spacers (modded to get the rotor centered in the caliper) $35
ttr125 front axle $8
new standard brake pads $6
2012 ex250 front brake master cylinder/lever (free takeoff from another bike I had)
Stainless steel braided hydraulic line installed by Limey Bikes, who also filled the brake fluid and bleed them. $85
That's $254 total. Would I do it again? Hell no. But I am very happy the bike is useable and not blasting fork oil off over itself.
I can actually come to a rapid stop now! And have nice selection of 17" street tires.
Though, with the leading axle fork, it's sort of a cruiser-like setup. Relaxed, but with wide steering lock. This means I will not be able to do a front nosecone like Craig Vetter.
Well the guys at the shop told me my bike - being a 100cc - is not legal on the interstates. I will have to read up more on that, though it does make sense. The stock KE100 struggles to do 60-65mph.
Attachments
marcexec
1 kW
Sounds good. Maybe you can alter the title like for an engine change. As you have enough power now for the higher speeds.
Fun fact: On the supposedly unlimited German Autobahn the vehicle only has to be capable of 60km/h, not actually drive it(though that can be dangerous).
Fun fact: On the supposedly unlimited German Autobahn the vehicle only has to be capable of 60km/h, not actually drive it(though that can be dangerous).
HI Warren,
I am currently using 9 modules (18s). I had 10, but took one off for my wifes scooter to boost her Chevy Volt 12s pack up to 14s so she has better top speed.
I've been thinking about taking apart this pack and using it for my lawn mowing business. 55ah modules don't work too well for that though.
I honestly wish I still had 10 modules on the moto. I can't really use highways with 9, since the top speed is only 58mph. With 10 I was able to go 66mph.
Here is a more current pic with the new fairing I built this spring. It cut down consumption from 65wh/mile to 51wh/mile.
I am currently using 9 modules (18s). I had 10, but took one off for my wifes scooter to boost her Chevy Volt 12s pack up to 14s so she has better top speed.
I've been thinking about taking apart this pack and using it for my lawn mowing business. 55ah modules don't work too well for that though.
I honestly wish I still had 10 modules on the moto. I can't really use highways with 9, since the top speed is only 58mph. With 10 I was able to go 66mph.
Here is a more current pic with the new fairing I built this spring. It cut down consumption from 65wh/mile to 51wh/mile.
Attachments
veloman,
"Here is a more current pic with the new fairing I built this spring. It cut down consumption from 65wh/mile to 51wh/mile."
Aero is definitely the way to go for road legal speeds. I'd love to put a fairing on my bikes, like Mr. Bill, but the thought of riding the shoulder next to trucks, and SUVs, with the side gusts, terrifies me.
"Here is a more current pic with the new fairing I built this spring. It cut down consumption from 65wh/mile to 51wh/mile."
Aero is definitely the way to go for road legal speeds. I'd love to put a fairing on my bikes, like Mr. Bill, but the thought of riding the shoulder next to trucks, and SUVs, with the side gusts, terrifies me.
My ebicycle fairing which is in my ebike builds thread, also had a noticeable reduction on consumption. On windy days of over 20mph, random side gusts did push me around a little. A lighter bike is more affected, so putting weight inside the fairing helped.
Harold in CR
100 kW
Nice job on the complete build. I'm especially interested in the fairing material.
I'm currently into a leaning reverse trike build and am following your projects closely. Right now, I have nearly finished the front sub frame with suspension. Need to build the shock array and then turn things overand do a complete weldup wherever necessary.
I'm hoping to have a smaller Can Am Spyder type machine with Chevy Volt modules. Probably need to start a build thread, someday.
I'm currently into a leaning reverse trike build and am following your projects closely. Right now, I have nearly finished the front sub frame with suspension. Need to build the shock array and then turn things overand do a complete weldup wherever necessary.
I'm hoping to have a smaller Can Am Spyder type machine with Chevy Volt modules. Probably need to start a build thread, someday.
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