Luna ga 14 ah shark pack

[Green Machine]

Can you please name me one vendor who sales GA packs and rates them for under their actual capacity?

Who does that?

Luna does it here. Advertised as an 18650GA 10Ah pack, presumably 3P, so nameplate 10.5Ah.

But seriously, I'd love to see some data showing a 14Ah @ 20A discharge.

yeah right thanks....i didnt think anyone would notice.

but for a long time i didnt believe the GA cells were rated for 3.5 like advertised and thought they were closer to 3.4 like was coming out in many of the test reports i was reading.

Lately there is a new version of the GA which tests closer to 3.5....

but to be fair in this ncr chemistry when you get to the end of the pack you will be getting seroius voltage lag.....

to get full capacity your gonna need to be really gentle on the throttle at the end or you will hit the lvc of the bms....so you will be on and offing the battery a lot etc to squeeze all the juice out of the pack....but we all know thats normal.

 

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[Green Machine]

you just got to make sure your testing guage is accurate.....the best way is to have another battery from another vendor to test with....but i realize you might not have that.... so make sure you battery is fully charged at 58.8 to 58.6 at start... and down to around 38v at cut off.... make sure what ever amp hour gauage you are using is properly calibrated. sometimes the lvc in your controller might be set to higher than thatt and to determine that make sure you are running until the battery shuts down (your display should go dark) .

very improtant... when the power goes off cycle on and off or plug and unplug the battery so it restarts again... you have to do this because the low voltage will trigger the lvc when you are at full power even though there is plenty of fuel left in the tank.... you need to really be gentle on the throttle when you are close to lvc to compensate for the voltage sag. when the battery shuts off (your display goes dark) cycle the power and get it to go back on again. Dont worry you should not hurt it as long as you stay over 35 volts or so.

if you are running at massive power (the battery is getting hot) you will not get the full 14ah..... but you will still be pretty close.

Also make sure the pack has been cycled a few times and that it is balanced (leave it plugged in to the charger overnight).

 

[Ebikes4Real]

The absolute minimum voltage that a typical 14s battery will trip at is 38.5V (14*2.75V), but typically, there will be some small imbalance that means it trips before that (no BMS will have an LVC as low as 2.5V). 39-40V would be more typical voltage at which a well balanced pack would trip at, any imbalance, would increase the trip voltage to a higher value. Simply stated, the BMS in the battery would not allow the cells to be fully discharged and this effect gets more and more significant, the higher, the current level it is discharged at.

Additionally, if the pack had been tested for capacity and had met it's rating, or close to it, then it must be well balanced. If it was well balanced, it wouldn't need to be sat on the charger overnight to balance as you are suggesting. Picking an occasional battery and testing it, is far from a guarantee that every battery is delivering the expected capacity. The only way to be sure every battery is delivering the expected capacity is to test every battery.

Please tell us about the equipment you use to confirm the capacity?

I would suggest that a reasonably accurate, but non-professional measuring device like a Cycle Analyst, or Satiator will be accurate to within 5% (probably better than that). I don't see how your suggestion to compare capacity to another battery is useful or valid. This is just bringing in all sorts of additional variables, that don't help on any way. Capacity is an ansolute measurement, not a comparison.

1 more question. Why call it a 52V battery, when 14*3.6= 50.4V?

 

[Ykick]

Even if this situation is measured accurately isn’t it a bit like memory on a 16GB iPad is really only about 13.5GB? Or, 1TB hard drive is actually 901GB?

Anytime you can get around 10% accuracy dealing with electronics, you’re doing pretty good IMO.

I’m alarmed by 18650 battery sellers who claim 5600mAh but only deliver 500mAh. Often a small pouch cell stuffed inside a can with maybe some sand so that it weighs like a genuine 18650.

As far as “voltages are concerned - I consider 14S Li-ion packs 58.8V the top charge voltage to expect.

 

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[terminus]

Interesting how some few people want vendors to understate pack specs to make up for these users' lack of accurate measuring equipment.

Hi. I think you misunderstand. The numbers coincide with what they should be seeing.

Cycle Analysts are quite accurate, and another user has reported similarly with BT enabled controller. It is due to the overrating of the specs, not the equip. Not all manufacturers do this btw.

Whatever. You add that many cells from THE MANUFACTURER'S STATED CAPACITY together and that's what you get. You're trying to conflate real-world losses to mean Luna's deceptive, and that's just wrong.

 

[Rodney64]

You still havent confimed if youre a dealer etrike or affiliated.

 

[Green Machine]

This post got lost in twilight zone i am reposting....es is becoming a snake pit.....:

who is ebikes4real and etrike?
and chance you guys have an allegiance to some dealer...or actually are a dealer....
Any chance you guys know ebike kit and jason kraft? The guy who drove amped bikes (a great dealer) out of business with dirty tricks. (it wont work with us)
Can you guys both say you have no affiliations to any dealer whatsoever?
Because this is serious bull shit.
And right now i am thinking about jumping into the trike business.
I have been a member of es for 8 years and as far as i know this is a place about promoting the movement.
I put 100 percent for the last year into promoting this movement...... put all my time and everything i own. I dont know anyone who has sacrificed as much as i have..... nobody has ever worked as hard as me and my fiance work....and as gambles as much as we did.....you have no idea.
And i did the best i could do and was honest and ehtical as i possibly could be.....and never misled anyone on purpose. I never post phoney range numbers... i have done our best to redefine the diy ebike industry we perceived as in trouble.
I didnt start in this realm as a dealer.... i was just a rider looking for the perfect ebike. never planned to sale batteries or sale kits or or sale bikes or sale trikes.
When is it that someone who posts a question on ES and its right to bring out the pitchfork on a new dealer who its obvoius to everyone had good intentions....when did that get to be an ok thing to do?
I am sorry we got "big" that was not our intentions...... we just wanted to get more butts on ebikes.
we are still struggling with that task.....its not easy.
Right now i am thinking about jumping into the trike business. I think my trike would be awesome......
Ebikes4real and etrikes.... everyone knows who i am......why dont you tell us who you are?
i can sign my name by my post. i would really like to know who you guys are.....
ERIC

 

[terminus]

Everyone knows real world performance varies.

Fact is you have to label capacity something.

Are they to understate the capacity that according to the manufacturer it adds up to, in the offchance you get butthurt about real world performance?

I don't see anything here that is "much less" than expected, as some seem to want to drum up controversy about. You know how those cells are originally tested? Here's a hint: it's not with an ebike and some random person with random load, unknown rolling resistance, and who knows what incline or throttle or amp draw.

 

[Green Machine]

etrike...

do you have any dealer affiliations.

do you know jason kraft....mr fred flinstone of the ebike industrry...pumping his lead acid packs.

you want to do a comparison.....any vendors pack against a luna cycle pack? Luna will show up gladly.

there is a chance that the orignal poster has a defective pack....it is possible...but you have flooded this thread with garbage and propoganda and are trying to damage the reputation of Luna.

The op can email us and we will help him troubleshoot his pack without all the noise.

But please tell us etrike....

who are you? Are you a dealer? or affiliated with a dealer?

What is your day job?

 

[Green Machine]

Hey etrike did you ever see scarface the movie?

when you wake up tomorrow .... call your boss and tell him "we frocked up we didnt get him"

and hope i am not there.....

your boss is a dirty pig who dont fly straight.

 

[Rodney64]

I'm confident that the OP got the correct advice in this thread, little thanks to your deflective nature. I expect the user will fair no better in an email exchange with you given what you've shown recently.

If you propose a pack challenge, let's make it fair: compare a LunaCycle pack to the Lunacycle specs. Do you think this 14Ah GA can put out 14Ah@20A as you claimed "all the time"? Would you prefer a different pack for introspection?

.

Hey Mate. Youre still illuding our question.

 

[terminus]

Etrike sounds like the only person being deceptive in this thread is you. Funny how you deflected my question and just keep repeating the same thing. Seems you didn't answer Eric's questions either.

 

[Rodney64]

Etrike Mate. My question is who are you.

Yes Im Luna Mate in Australia and I'm proud to be part of it.

 

[Ebikes4Real]

To Greenmachine/Eric (and Rodney). This is a forum and people are free to discuss things. I didn't realize it was now a requirement to give your name and personal details, if you say something that hurts someone's feelings or self interest.

The OP came on with a problem and like lots of others around here, I have enough knowledge about how batteries work, to make some observations and put forward an explanation as to why he is getting the results he has observed (he is not the first either). The cells in question have publicly available data, it is quite straightforward to look at that data and come to some conclusions, based on those graphs and what could be expected from those cells when combined into a pack with a typical BMS and discharged at different current rates. None of this is personal, so I don't get why it is being treated as such. I don't recall making any negative comments about any businesses, I just made what I consider to be sound observations of a technical nature.

I have no affiliation to any businesses and i do not personally know Etrike, or who he is, other than he is another guy on a forum.

I would like to make a quick statement, now that we are here in this situation. Luna is a business, it is not a charitable organization. All this talk about how by being cheaper than another business, or the fact that you have electricbike.com, also electricbike-blog.com (which do which both do a great job of prromoting Luna), gives you some kind of God Given right to get a free pass, or special treatment is plain ridiculous. In the last year, you have largely promoted yourself/Luna, not the industry, not the scene, nor the other businesses that were here already. In fact, I would say, that rather than promote the scene in general, you have by clever manipulation painted your competitor's as greedy and I have even seen groundless attacks on competing products/companies.

People can convince themselves of almost anything (and even persuade others too), when it serves their own self interest. No matter it is monetary gain, status or just to further boost their (already over-inflated) ego/self-worth that drives them. Those with narcissistic personalities, only take this further and are more willing to twist the facts, attack (also use) others and use every means to further promote this false narrative.

I'm Ebikes4real, you can find me on 101 Endless-Sphere Avenue :wink:

 

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[Green Machine]

If your battery is really having its bms cut out at 46v you may have a problem with your bms and should contact luna support. Simple as that. We will help you sort this out without all this political noise.

Can you test the other battery you have of ours using the same system as a "control". Also double check your lvs with a multi meter.

 

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Ok but my other pack is 48v
thank you guys

 

[999zip999]

It sounds like an early tripping bms or high lvc maybe ? Do you have a C.A. ?
The mosh pit of E.S. dive in we will catch you.

 

[RickM39]

The CA2 is an accurate device to see exactly what's going on with your system, at least Mr. Fluke says so.

Agreed that 46v cutoff on a 52v pack is too soon. My 48v carbon shark will go below 40, don't know how much further because I ease up at that point.

I deliberately chose a 48v pack as I'd rather have the pack go soft and limp home than have great power until LVC.

My best 5.0 AH heli Lipo's test at 4.6 when new and you are cautioned not to drain them below 20%, so after a few cycles you're lucky to be able to use 70% of the pack's rating.

I've never heard anyone complain about this.

11.5 AH out of a 14 AH pack is leaving 18% in the tank which you should do anyway.

Eric advertises exactly what cells are used in his packs and in what configuration so what is the problem?

 

[RickM39]

Out of curiosity I googled ebike battery pack and looked at a number of sites.

Other than Luna only two (em3ev and lectric cycle) provided information on what type of cells were used and only em3ev specified configuration, all the others just stated the voltage and AH's.

Both also rated the packs according to the cell rating just like Luna.