My ultra-sufficient semi-recumbent tricycle project

[motomech]

I now fit the trike .

Have to make a new back support bracket (hello painted wood)
'tis a purple people seater

"Purple People Eater", LOL. You are dating yourself.

 

[ddk]

@ motomech- Shep Woolley and PDQ Bach inspired me greatly as a composer of sorts.
I'm a lot older then I think I am.

I note that by looking at my pics it occurs to me that I should have the Village Smithy (really- that's the name of the local welding/fab shop) weld a new bottom bracket tube thingy for a 3-piece crank right at the bend of the lower frame tube.
This will allow me to drop the seat completely into the tube -no more having to put my trust into a 1/2" collar bolt (or my rear end for that matter)

 

[ddk]

WHOO HOO I HAS A WHEELIE MACHINE

I now know where I'll be mounting the front hub motors' batteries and controller :lol:

I'll be adding a new, or used (if I can find a cheap used bike) bottom bracket for a three-piece crank
mounted about where the arrow is pointing

(edit- My local fab/weld shop moves the existing bracket to its' forward location- cost $20 bucks for that as he takes pity on confused old people) (Thanks to The Village Smithy)

I got the back support figured out. Slipped it between the axle support tubes, although I loose the 'proper' basket mounting location


eventually I might even get around to adding the motors

(edited for reality)

 

[ddk]

as if anyones' actually following this thread.
Today I got the derailleur semi-working and the rear brake hooked up.
Took it for a quick spin and the verdict is...

OMG this thing now turns FAST without tipping
...if I was to guess I'd think 3-4 times faster except I never actually got it to tip! (to be determined)

better picture of the Belize Seat Solution

and for your amusement, what the bike was 'sposed to look like.View attachment 4


naughty bits



I kept scrapping the handlebars on my thigh when turning so Mr Simpleton comes up with the clever (no, not really) idea to turn the handlebars upside down
end result- worked 'natch
I should have just reversed the handlebars in the fork in the first place View attachment 2

The position of the bottom bracket, which I intend to move farther forward, is interesting in that it puts my feets in danger of touching the front wheelView attachment 5

Compare that to the more standard position on a sit up trike (emoto to the rescue)


I'm thinking a bent spring fork and new handle bars for a lowrider (old fart on lowrider alert alert alert)

yum... I can see those twisty bits of metal in my minds' eye.

 

[Rassy]

Well, I am actually "trying" to follow. The pictures help a lot. Of course I think maybe that's the way the seat was supposed to be put together and you just did it wrong the first time.

It sounds like either the pedals are too close to you now or your legs are too long. It would probably be tough to get your legs shortened so moving the crank forward might solve the problem. Another possibility would be shorter cranks. I notice that's a one piece crank, so I bet a lot of those goodwill kid's bikes have the same crank with shorter arms. Maybe shorter crank arms and moving the bottom bracket forward and changing the fork.

 

[ddk]

hey there Rassy


sorry about the meessy thread
My current solution (edited-done)
-move the bottom bracket shell forward ...

-acquire and install a 'bent fork with support arms' ( ala chopper) moves the front wheel as far as possible while still being able to turn in a reasonable radius. (yes I made that mistake a long time ago, in a far away galaxy) (edittededed-measured 10')

it's my turn to buy lunch (edited-still is)

 

[amberwolf]

-have a bottom bracket shell for a 3-piece crank welded at the bend in the tubes 150mm crank arms like what's on the emoto.

You dont' have to weld it on. If you cut one off a bike with the right sized downtube/seatube, and leave enough of those two tubes on the BB, you can fishmouth them sufficiently to wrap around the trike's frame tubing and bolt them onto it securely.


Regarding the fork, if you don't change the headtube angle, then either you will have some likely trouble with steering (assuming you use a "bent" fork that puts the wheel that far forward of the pivot point), or you will have a pretty high front end (assuming you use a straight chopper fork so that it raises the whole front end of the trike up to let the headtube be in line with it).

 

[ddk]

hi amberwolf

By 'fishmouth' you mean splitting the tube from the cut end to the BBtube?
I don unnerstand dis teknical stuffs so well.

Having built a jchopper with 6' extended front forks (giving it a turning radius of about 30 feet)
I know what you mean

I'm considering using one of theseView attachment 1

but I has my eye on this one! (mmm twisty metal bits)

If the turning radius is over 8' I'll have to modify my turning habits
*stands up... picks up the front end by the handlebars and turns LOL*

 

[ddk]

note
I now know the term "fishmouth" refers to a pipe notch
( which I've always called "a pipe notch")

i lacks the tools and for whatever reasons, junked, used or second-hand bikes are as extinct as dinosaurs in my hometown area
(been around looking for months on end)

threaded steel bottom bracket tubes sell for about $10+fab shop $15-20= cheaper where I don't get to hurt myself so much

 

[ddk]

Dunno why I'm being so stupid about this (edited-being stupid is my new 'normal')
visited Medford
bought stuff saving bootloads of cash, or at least a wallet-full

 

[ddk]

well
the pieces of the puzzle are coming together... albeit slowly

-I got the geared hub front wheel kit from highertech bikes today... undamaged
too whipped to work on the trike today
-The guy at the sign shop called to say he was making his pilgrimage to Portland at the end of the week to pick up coroplast for his shop along with a sheet of 10mm for my solar-celled roof project. We found out he had the other types in stock I (might) need (although I wanted to see what the 'clear' coroplast looked like) (wanna be amused)

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

 

[bgnome]

It sounds like either the pedals are too close to you now or your legs are too long. It would probably be tough to get your legs shortened so moving the crank forward might solve the problem. Another possibility would be shorter cranks. I notice that's a one piece crank, so I bet a lot of those goodwill kid's bikes have the same crank with shorter arms. Maybe shorter crank arms and moving the bottom bracket forward and changing the fork.

how about bolting on a set of kiddie cranks to the top tube? this will let you adjust bottom bracket height easily.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kiddy-crank-seat-tube-attachment-block-with-1225-mm-sealed-b-b-bearing-286-318-mm-black-prod18903/?src=froogleus&currency=usd

instead of a new fork, maybe dropping down to a 20" wheel is a possibility?

 

[Rassy]

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

Uh, I posted somewhere that I would be heading past your place on May 4th (and back again on May 6th). Going on an organized ride down in Ferndale, California with my pedal trike riding buddy Bob. That's about 2 months from now, but if you want to use me for an excuse not to have to ride that's okay with me.

 

[ddk]

...

how about bolting on a set of kiddie cranks to the top tube? this will let you adjust bottom bracket height easily.
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/kiddy-crank-seat-tube-attachment-block-with-1225-mm-sealed-b-b-bearing-286-318-mm-black-prod18903/?src=froogleus&currency=usd

instead of a new fork, maybe dropping down to a 20" wheel is a possibility?

there's also http://problemsolversbike.com/products/sliding_bottom_bracket_shell/ for ~20 bucks less



But the kiddy thingy looks to be a nice product (except for the price LOL)

My local welding shop is cheap and good and the BB shells are cheap
For 96.75 I could have a series of bottom bracket shells welded to the tubes HaHAHAhahahahahahahhaahaahhh- sorry

-too late for the wheel idea as I just received my motorized 24" wheel
I questioned myself about doing that (using a 20" wheel) but I rejected it because it would change the already poor handling of the trike
-How poor do you ask?
ans:I first assembled the trike as the manufacturer intended, where my legs couldn't extend all the way to the pedal extremes.
I rode it like that to get an idea for a solution (pedal blocks etc)
When I took my hands off the handlebars to see how much the trikes' drift would be the front wheel immediately turned 90 degrees to the left, throwing me off the seat.
Lucky I was only traveling at slightly less than walking speed. (hard to speed up when your feet don't reach the pedals)

who knows? maybe a 20" front wheel would have improved this things' characteristics
but I has an 24" wheel

 

[ddk]

Rassy was a no-show on Sunday
I could have been out riding the emoto!

Rassy, was that you who almost stopped when I was coming out of the lumbar yard parking lot?

Uh, I posted somewhere that I would be heading past your place on May 4th (and back again on May 6th). Going on an organized ride down in Ferndale, California with my pedal trike riding buddy Bob. That's about 2 months from now, but if you want to use me for an excuse not to have to ride that's okay with me.

may march I gets so cornfuzed... :lol:

oh heck I likely will have the trike done by then!

 

[ddk]

although the drop-outs and the forks on the emoto and the comfort measure the same, the motor doesn't physically clear the tubes on the (original) fork
btw if I didn't mention it before both the motors on the emoto and the highertech are the same; what's sold as ampedbikes geared front hub motor made by Aotema -although it took a bit to figure out what the emoto used.(they like to claim that they made it LOL)

off to the hardware store to buy a threaded rod to 'assist' in spreading the forks
and more washers

also: I'm curious as to why the installation instructions calls for installing hardware that wasn't included in the 'kit'?
this is why ebikes suck for the average person.
poor marketing
poorer manuals
poorest quality control (if any)

(edited-still holds true for some vendors
... but Teryy@hightekbikes fixed his web stuff. He also sent me the 'missing pieces' which didn't actually include the controller's mounting hardware as I envisioned the hardware to be, but alas the mounting hardware consists of some zip ties and heatshrink tubing as provided by ampedbikes.
No fault of Terry.
He went out of his way to provide excellent service before I wrote this stuff
example: My only 'complaint' as it were was a simple inquiry about when my bike kit might be shipped.
Terry jumped right on it, apologizing for not having one in stock and then proceeded to build me a wheel.
...and as you will read, answered all my dumbass questions

Thanks Terry.

 

[amberwolf]

If you have any old rear wheels laying around, you can use the axle from one as that threaded rod.


As for QC...we (the end-user) *are* the QC for almost all of the ebike stuff out there. (actually, for many other things, too).

 

[ddk]

If you have any old rear wheels laying around, you can use the axle from one as that threaded rod.

too late! bought a threaded rod (always find uses for threaded rods anyhoo)

As for QC...we (the end-user) *are* the QC for almost all of the ebike stuff out there. (actually, for many other things, too).

you mean like the web pages?
lol- if I were to believe the webpage for the hightech front geared hub motor I should have received a 6 gear cluster "free of charge".
I can always use a new gear cluster, unfortunately the front hub kit lacked that accessory.
***looks in box again -nope- no gears in here***

LOL- Terry fixed it!

The webpage has changed... good! but I have a screenshot for my memento files

(edittededed for reality)

 

[Rassy]

It really doesn't make sense that they would include a rear gear cluster with a front wheel kit. I think they just used the text from their rear wheel kit and didn't edit out that one sentence. I find a lot of the battery descriptions (BMSBattery, etc.), have the wrong weights and sizes because they obviously used the same text for different batteries without changing these little but important items.

 

[ddk]

It really doesn't make sense that they would include a rear gear cluster with a front wheel kit. I think they just used the text from their rear wheel kit and didn't edit out that one sentence. I find a lot of the battery descriptions (BMSBattery, etc.), have the wrong weights and sizes because they obviously used the same text for different batteries without changing these little but important items.

-I understand this
-you understand this
-most board members understand this
the average (untainted) person doesn't understand this

 

[ddk]

made my way to Medford today via beautiful HWY 199 through the giant redwoods

stopped at a couple of 'real' bike stores for some sticker shock (you want HOW much for those 150mm crank arms? They made outta platinum or what?)

CK Enterprise had everything I needed EXCEPT the bent-springer fork, as the proprietor had recently run out of stock (but he assured me he would have more next week)
Seeing the fork installed on a bicycle gave me confidence that it will be my salvation to the tire/shoes interaction issue.
It moves the wheel about 3 1/2 inches forward a normal fork's wheel position and lowers the front by 2-3"

Man that place is great!
new 150mm crank- $5
new BB bearings- $5.99
new complete frame (with the BB shell needing surgical removal)- $5.00
Score!

oh and Harbor Freight was having a sidewalk sale so I over-purchased tools.
grinder- $9.95
cutoff wheels- $1.29 each
grinding wheels- 3 for $3.00
small rotary tool kit (formerly owned one-smaller than a dremal- I find it slightly more useful because of it's size)- $9.95
those color-coded deep-well 6-point sockets in metric- $9.95 (ALWAYS wanted a set)
and assorted good buys on other bits and pieces
Unfortunately their 3" bench vise wasn't in stock so I settled on the 2.5" (we'll see how long it takes me to utterly destroy this)
Being just another weak old guy I couldn't deal with the 4" or larger vises and if I can't carry it it just doesn't belong in my outside portable pic-a-nic table shop

I also found a place in town that sells bearings, pillow blocks, machine tool ends, vises etc.
except... The parts are all HUGE.
With a name like "Logger's Supply" who'd guess?
His smallest vise weighs in at about 30kg (his largest at 1/4 ton!)
has GREAT stock including 1" and thicker aluminum bars
2" axles/bearings, 5" bearings, railroad trucks... I almost stopped looking but then...
found a box of 5/8" pillow blocks- Got all excited until I opened a package up to find it contained a pillow block with an eccentric bearing... made for a wobble axle -like I needs more wobble in my trike's axle!
The Emoto came with a wobble axle free of charge (recently replaced -all is well in trikeland once more...)

 

[ddk]

ok
back to the bike and the ramblings of a cranky old man

HI THERE
I HAS AN NEW EBIKE KIT WITH KNOES INFORMATION (caps lock is cool!)

kins of a standard statement, eh?

I has a game for all you...

My front hub geared brushless motor I was led to believe might be sensorless (my preference for my reasons) is sensored.
why did I assume otherwise?
-this assumption was made by reading Highertechs' webpage which refereed me to AmpedBikes' webpage for a (poor with lack of any real technical information) description of what I was supposedly purchasing.

ok- sensored motors work, in fact it's not some a super calamity OMG teh WORLD is wrong issue

this is the game

I has a new controller (no ID labels on the cables 'natch)
it has this pretty red button on one end
I wonders what this button is?
*pushes on it*
Ooh- it's a switch!
I wonders what it switches?
*ponders*
if I connect a battery to the (unmarked) connector will the switch:
1. do nothing?
2. turn the controller off/on?
3. reset some weird computerz stuffs
4. remake human civilization (what's left of it) as we know it?

I'm hoping it's #4

here's the much-needed picture perhaps your guess might be more worthy than mine? :?



the correct answer to the pop quiz is #2.
if you chose #2 please award yourself one cookie

(edited for the heck of it)

 

[ddk]

more pictures to help your guessingView attachment 1
the picture above represents the piss-poor language translation between Chinese and English (or your own native speak)
we, the BUYERS of your products, have to deal with!
this label is stuck on the controller
I'm gonna assume that translated properly, the bottom line should say something about the controller having regen capability (just the ticket for a motor that has a freewheel LOL)
The word "MUTE" in that same line may or may not give me an idea of what the RED SWITCH might effect (see: above post by me)

and then there's always my favorite
WOULD IT BEHOOVE THE SUPPLIERS OF THESES SO CALLED 'KITS' TO AT LEAST PROVIDE THE OPPOSITE-GENDER CONNECTORS?
really
come on!
we're talking a less than a dollar part that I won't be able to find locally so instead, I get to pay some extortionist "shipping and handling" fee to get the opposing connector for this (unlabeled but likely) controller on/off port
I DO want to turn the controller off before I connect my battery because I DON"T like sparkles and zaps so I WILL install an (unprovided) switch
my other 'option' is to replace the connector with one I can purchase locally, thus voiding any warranty (assuming the controller even has a *real* warranty)

the connector
end of rant

 

[ddk]

it'll be at least a week before the weather clears around my parts of the world
I ordered the stuff I need for my jackshaft.-had to call it in, as my browser indicated their webpage was only secure via one-way communication (mentioned it to the proprietor)
-talked about what I needed to build my jackshaft
-pointed out some errors regarding 'parts description' on their webpage vs. our phone conversation
-parts ship tomorrow ...I should receive them Friday.

my, that was simple... maybe I should just forgo using the internet as a purchasing medium altogether and just phone in my orders?
is that how you guys contacted cellman?

NOTE: I have never experienced what I've currently experiencing with (edit-insert the word "Some" online vendors) on-line vendors before I started my recent project(s) in alternative transportation

last edited by ddk on 6/66/6666. edited 666 times

 

[ddk]

Since it's storming outside I continue
I own and ride an E-Moto Trike ...formally sold on-line thru various vendors and possibly still in stock at Menard's stores
-don't have a Menard's store in my area so I'm making an assumption.

I made some unjustified accusations about the unworthiness of the trike (well, some of it WAS justified- although finally made good upon)
-most of my problems stemmed from the fact I bought the last one stocked by the warehouse/distributor in 2011
The Trike came with a bent rear axle- likely warped when welding on the drive wheel hub engagement thingy.

The trike was rideable, although a bit wobbly

-so I rode it and started quizzing the warranty service shop about parts replacement (November 2011)
Come December- still no parts and the wobbly axle is starting to take the fun away
I experienced these problems directly caused by the wobble:
-gear cluster shifting in position on the axle causing the chain to slip off
-brake drum shifting in position on the axle causing, well, no brakes! ahhhhahahahhhhhhhhhhhh!!

I started (and continue to) carry a complete set of tools necessary to effect repairs on the road
NOTE: the Trike's multi-tool set fit NOTHING on the actual trike! :lol: :lol: :lol:
...at one time as I was riding the axle key for the brake drum fell into the tube (see pic)
causing no brakes ...but suddenly BRAKES (the key jammed between the axle's keyway slot and the tube)
-more calls to the shop-
completely disassembled the trike's rear end (again) removing the axle from the tube bearings to retrieve the key
-this is where I (finally) figured out the axle - a rather standard part available through ebay vendors etc, had lot's of little modifications to make it compatible with the Trike's somewhat unique wheel hubs (more on this later on)
January had the axle problems happening once every couple of days, until I got the not-so-clever idea of using hose clamps to keep things in place (with help from forum members here to jog my creative juices)
-worked a treat!

however with no support from the shop (yet) and my personal rear-end complaining about the seat (let's not get TOO personal) prompted me to start THIS HERE PROJECT. YUP

and of course the same day I received my project tricycle I FINALLY received the Trike's warranty replacement tricycle assembly (dimmit)
while I set about replacing the tricycle assemblies it struck me curious as to why the *new* assembly should be so much lighter than the *old and wobbly* assembly ( I likes the word "wobbly")
The new assembly also lacked those little bits and modifications the original assembly had.
the old assembly was of *ALL STEEL CONSTRUCTION* as opposed to the replacement assembly's aluminum tubes
hm mm

anyway I thought I bought a turkey ...but now I have a falcon
and for an inexpensive (well, relatively) electric-motored tricycle with a 6-gear derailleur and lithium battery, I now consider the E-Moto Trike to be a best buy -in comparison to e-trikes within the same narrow price range of $900-$1500
..and I didn't has to build it 8)
too bad they don't seem to be importing anymore of these things
-likely because MY Trike(tm) may not have been the only "first-gen turkey"(soon-to-be-a-tm)