New 60v Build. What can i do next?

[icecube57]

The jacked up thing about this experience... the fets i took out of the controller were NEC 3435b which are the same fets that came out of my 60v controller. It had 63v caps. It probably would have ran fine stock... If i ran my other controller on the same fets and i maybe shoulda just swapped out caps for 100v

 

[icecube57]

ok i found the place where i have to jump wires to turn the controller on. I got it to turn and realize the wires for the motor were crossed because the motor was haulin ass bakwards and ran into my wall. I switched them and everything was a go. The stand by draw is 0.05A kinda high in my opinion. and 3-6w. Freewheel current draw 1.2A and barely 100w. Peak (stall) is 33.98A and peak wattage is 2093w Motor is barely heating up. I might ride to work today. I miss my ride so much. Pics of my mods are below. (2)100v Caps. (3) 4310 fets. The picture shows the caps being soldered straight to the board but i had to put tails on them and lay them in the controller. They were too tall. This controller was by far the best ive seen. Its compact without being toooooo compact Nice lay out simple. Desoldered and resoldered easily. Durable high quality pcb. I beefed up the traces with some solder because there was none on them. Thats was the only weak spot. Besides all the damn connectors... I got rid of those and found the jump spots on the pcb to turn the controller on. Going to install a switch when i have some free time. Success.!!! going to buy a slick and a tune for my 409 and try it out. Whats the difference between the WE and the 409 as far as torque an speed. I also noticed my 409 has curved spokes in a DW rim. Is this normal for the 400 clytes?

 

[icecube57]

i rode my bike to work after four miles of moderate usage and alotta coasting just featherng the throttle that same feeling came back the brush springs failed again on a motor with new brushes.... im so over this motor im putting the clyte 409 in tommorrow maybe it will survice to be a champ controller still works fine. im kinda pissed that links motor can run at 72 and 30A and i cant get mine to run 66 on a rebuilt motor

 

[icecube57]

So i finally made it to work... the last two miles with some serious hills.... alotta dead weight eh... but i made it. I got a ride home and got my car to go pick up my bike. Brought it home broke down the front end. Some oil like substance was leaking out the axel an it stank. I cracked the side cover off the motor. whew..... it stank. What apparently happened was the zip tie i had around the shaft to secure the wires to the axel ...melted / liquified its all in the motor. The plate is so shot . Its uneven.. literally every contact is at a different level from its partner... black dirty crusty i mean it looks like something blew up in there. Its so rough that it was eating away at the brush holders....they failed because the springs were compressed. I think something was shorted in this motor causing it to heat up the way it did. I installed my 409 today...just the rim/motor bike was upside down. The rim that i got is so true and straight my god its beautiful. Dont like the arched style of it. but its straight... had to adjust my brakes a little bit so they hit the rim right. I starts up smooth... doesnt whine its very quiet. I think the controller has something to do with it. My last controller the first 25% of the throttle was kinda loud and it quieted down as it sped up. This one is quiet from start to finish with both motors. When the we worked. I honestly couldnt get any tests done to give any consumption rates. The motor has so much torque that it was able to run with brakes applied and adjusted for maximum force. I tried to grab the wheel and get some results for a stall. The bike flip its self over. The We motor did nothing like that. The motors look identical. The clyte has half as many screws at the WE. They visibly look the same on the inside. The 409 looks like it has more/smaller windings than the WE. WE has plastic or something thats reinforced with fiber glass or asbestos.... god i hope not. The brand new brush holder i put in was toast garber... unsusable. but the clyte brush holder is plastic but the actualy tips of the brushes are enclosed in a metal shell perfect fit no play or wiggle roomo.

 

[icecube57]

ok i got the 409 clyte wired up mounted on my bike i took a test spin. Slick tires and sand and tree roots and rocks dont mix. I went to a state park that had some intermediate level trails but i didnt think they would be rough but it had hills and stuff that proved to be a good proving ground. Everything went well until my rack bag fell off and went tumbling. The stitches and everything was busted on the bag barely holding the slas in there. Lucky its padded. I relaced the rim to my stock schwinn rim. The trails loosened some of the spokes that werent seated good. So i fixed those. The odd thing about this 409 is the starting torque isnt that impressive nore but as soon as you get to about 10 mph it takes off and pulls away from you like a mad man. I couldnt do any hill or grade tests because of the slicks on the trail... so much power was loss due to no traction on the sand and gravel. Its very quiet no whine. The controller is doing 30-35A no more no less. Its holding up well. The motor got a little hot but i was able to hold my hand on it and this was after 10 min of hard riding with hills and such. Nothing like the deceased WE motor where it burned my finger prints off. That motor is still stinking up my project room. I want to use the axel off the we because it has more threads as the clyt barely has enought to get the nut and washers. I wonder how different is the size and magnet strenght they both look almost identical. I better no start rigging stuff together. All and all i cant deliver a verdict on the motor just i thought the torque curve was odd on flat land. Starting off slow but reasonable torque and hitting the butter zone where it flies. Ill go to ebikes ca and study it some.

 

[pwbset]

The odd thing about this 409 is the starting torque isnt that impressive nore but as soon as you get to about 10 mph it takes off and pulls away from you like a mad man.

Just for reference purposes my rear 4011 feels relatively weak off the line as well, but ramps up torque quickly also. Part of my morning commute is a 15-17% grade for about a half mile and at 9-10mph the 4011 provides around 700-800 watts @ around 50% throttle and pushes me like a giant drunk monkey on steroids... I'm pedaling hard also though truth to tell. 15% with pea gravel is pretty brutal. I've found that when I try and "floor it" (1,600+ watts) up this same steep grade I don't get any more torque or speed and the motor just dumps watts as heat and the 4011 will get super-duper crispy. There are definitely zones where these motors shine. 22mph for me is another zone where the amp hr meter barely creeps up and I feel like I could cruise all day at that speed.

Bottom line for my mountain climb commute is that speed kills. I can shave an entire amp hour off my commute just by slowing down my average speed about 2mph.

 

[rhfritz]

I was told the following about the BD36 motor:

Supposedly the amperage is restricted by the controller to 35AMPs max and the motor can tolerate up to 96 volts.

Rob

 

[Link]

Supposedly the amperage is restricted by the controller to 35AMPs max and the motor can tolerate up to 96 volts.

I believe they make a 35A and a 50A model.

But no way will it take 96V. Mine's getting pretty trashed on 72V. :?

 

[icecube57]

Yeah it is rather weak off the line but there is a sudden rush and it sorta plateaus off but still gains little speed. It feels like you got a pedal first controller almost. .... or rather thats how you have to ride it. Im not impressed and this motor is getting dumped super quick its not enjoyable to ride. My suggestion to everyone else is to upgrate the WE brushes to Clyte brushes with metal inserts. They fit. I know for a fact. and over volt the hell out of it. My damage was done when i was pounding on the motor with that 100A controller. Something had to short out cause this clyte motor i could have left my hand on it all day. I picked a 409 for additional torque but im simply not seeing it and its performance is mediocre and a we motor at the same voltage would beat this 409 hands down. It doesnt explain how i can grab a stalled WE wheel but yet 409 Clyte flips the damn bike over its self over doing the same exact thing. Its really confusing i want to belive its better but its really not maybe i need a 408 or 406 other wise ime disappointed and to only way get that high back again is to cross over to brushless geard or x5.... might experement with another we. Im going to tak into consideration that i fried my motor with those two high am controllers and it wasnt performing like it originally was due to the damage of those amps. Im pressed for cash so this 409 will have to do for now. I seen a video on you tube of a 409 @72v keeping up with an x5 i would have to experience it to belive it.

 

[Link]

I seen a video on you tube of a 409 @72v keeping up with an x5 i would have to experience it to belive it.

That's Ypedal's vid. The X5 is on 48V, otherwise it would walk all over the 409. Are you running the 409 on 60 or 72V?

 

[pwbset]

Are you running the 409 on 60 or 72V?

Yeah.. a 409 at 48v is going to be unimpressive to say the least. At 72v it should be pretty powerful. I'm running my 4011 at 84v and honestly really wouldn't want any more power at this point as I've almost wrecked in traffic twice because I was leaning too far back when I floored it.

 

[Link]

Are you running the 409 on 60 or 72V?

Yeah.. a 409 at 48v is going to be unimpressive to say the least. At 72v it should be pretty powerful. I'm running my 4011 at 84v and honestly really wouldn't want any more power at this point as I've almost wrecked in traffic twice because I was leaning too far back when I floored it.

Heh. I did that once with my Golden at 48V 40A. Wonder what it'll be like at 72V...? 8)

 

[icecube57]

i was running at 60v. Just recyling parts like batts and charger. (grins at his 100v controller... my precious) Dont want to dedicate to a higher voltage until i run my trials at 60v. But im not impressed at 60v but then again im an above average... border line fluffy rider.

 

[pwbset]

im not impressed at 60v but then again im an above average... border line fluffy rider.

My theory was that I start with a 4-series as a punishment for my lifestyle excesses and as soon as I lost 15lb from the exercise I would reward myself with the heavy 5305 and end up at the same overall gross bike weight. 6lbs shed in the last 3 weeks... 9 to go before the upgrade. Ha!

 

[icecube57]

ok another update. Im going to do trials at 72v. Im going to recycle my old 36v battery bag and load the SLA back in there and put it on the rack. The other three batteries i soldered the connectors to the tab used 10gauge wire to connect them then i duck taped them together and made a poor mans ping pack... Its solid tight and compact. imma post a pick you would laugh your ass off but the last thing you need is loose batts in a back pack. since i have two separate 36v packs im going to recycle my old soneil 36v charger and charge them in parallel. Im going on ebay to get a second charger. Anyone know how to repair this charger. Or how about increasing it to do 3A charger. It wont come out of the charge cycle and go into float... The light always stay orange. i have to use a timer on it now so i dont over charge. I think i should be rather impressed once i do my test runs. Im already liking the free wheel speed @72v... its back to the free wheel speed the WE motor used to run @ 60v. I keep forgetting this motor supposedly has more torque and therefore runs slower... im looking for an easy alternative to do a series parallel switch for speed vs range any off the shelf ideas? i parked my bike in my stairwell in my new apt complex and some A-Hole ripped my Watts up meter off my handle bars. The meter works but then again its uselss at 72v since the voltage maxes out at 68.37 but it still reads off the watts amps AH and WH consumed. Somoeone is selling a nice little voltage meter on ebay. Think is neon blue and rated up to 100 or 200v. Thats all for now i suppose. Someone let me know what i can do about this charger.

 

[icecube57]

36v
[youtube]blNxHMF40TY[/youtube]
72v
[youtube]LO8DK5rvJVo[/youtube]
Freewheeling... No load. Bike upside down. 409 Brushed hub motor @ 36 and 72v.

I blew my watts up meter today. When i tested it before the packs were half dead. but still over 70v plugged it in after a fresh charge combine pack voltage a little over 80v something went pop but i cant see what it was. Display came on for a few secs.

Wiring my back pack up trying to get the cable length... plastic spiral cable protectors and connectors and splices the right length so i can ride and pedal and get off my bike without wires pulling apart arching and what not. otherwise im ready to roll in a day or two. Gotta order two 2.5A chargers from ecrazyman.... why cant he just combine shipping... 22 for the first package and 19 for additional.... blows....then a 8-9 day wait... might deal locally ..... I give him kudos on the charger.... i wish i remove a resistor or something on my 60v charger ... It already puts out 70+v i just need a little more... to bad i cant bank charger properly in my setup. Where is Earl when u need him.

 

[icecube57]

ok i did my 36v and 72v trials on the 409. The acceleration... the torque. Kinda blew me away im really at a lost for words. I did trials in my local park. Level ground @ 36v its respectable with enough torque to haul my fat arshe with very little effort on my part... it sailed me over medium hills with no pedaling larger hills just required me to lightly pedal....just enough to keep the amps down but it was still hauling like a champ. Estimated speed i think 18-20 on flats...again its a little slow but definetly more torque than the WE @ the same voltage but the WE has more speed. Barely got warm after 10 min throttle wide open on the path i chose... that equates to about 4 miles. Im going to use 36v for my after work exercise just to give me that boost to help maintain speed and momentum but not allowing me to blatenly cheat during my routine. At 72v i was scared out of my mind on level ground. Its like you never get used to the acceleration i found my self feathering the throttle because it felt like the bike was going to get away from me. There is a shimmy in the wheel when u let go of the handle bars. I must retract all my statements i said about this motor. Its the sheit... only problem ive had out of the motor is a faled eye hook that connects the brush to the brush holder and it failed during a big hill..not enough solder on connection... (from factory) replaced all connections with new thicker reinforceced rings. Motor got hot but never got super heated to the unbearable to touch or scalding stage.

 

[icecube57]

Motor died... got caught 14 miles out away from my car did a hard acceleration and got up to speed where i could coast the rest of the way on the road i was on. Went to use the throttle... there was a grinding noise... went to use it again... nothing... More likely a brush issue... im tired of replacing brushes... although i got a spare WE brush... wonder will it fit... tired of adjusting spokes im about tired of everything brush related.Nothing else to try out and buy .... Discontinued build....I hope you learned something.I got a solid controller out of the deal took my 81 volts without bitchin.... still works like a champ lol. Im getting a bonus from work... 6% of my BASE annual salary... wish they included overtime. My base is 33.5 my actual is 48-55k But it equates to about 2010 bucks ...time to dive into the brushless crowd. There is a 5305 in a landfill some where if u find it you can have it a 409 is about to meet its cousin.

 

[kbarrett]

Yep.

If you want to build an e-motorcycle, then get a motorbike frame, a real motor, and build one.

Making a jackleg e-motorbike with an overvolted c'lyte and a bicycle might be fun, but the gear ain't designed to take it for extended periods.

 

[icecube57]

i think thats the thing brushed motors are no good at higher voltages for extended periods .... maybe on level ground where staying in the butter zone of effiency without dumping the extra power as heat. I like to pedal my bike but i havent had the time or funds to upgrade the rear gears to allow me to pedal along so i kinda had no choice put to use the motor...but i gotta admit i was really riding hard a punishing it to see how far i could go and what it could do. I was super impressed.... easily 35+ mph. I really was thinking about getting the plans to build a emotorcycle from scratch. or atleast find a proven donor frame and upgrade from there but i want to go to the x5s... i was impressed with the 409 and running it at 72v i can wait to go up to the x5s if i decide to. I would go geard but my fat arshe would prob destory the nylon gears if there was one that was completely metal it might be a consideration but then again do i really want my bike going so fast that the free wheel sounds like a racheting new years eve party favor lol...

 

[icecube57]

I need someones input on this. Preferably somone with a folding/bmx type bike. Ive been eyeing a similar bike at local thrift shops... im sure it could be adapted for my fat arshe with a new seat to get the leg extention right even though i couldnt pedal it. It just came to my understanding one reason why link has been nearly trouble free with his motor is that he runs a smaller wheel diameter which gives you alot more torque and doesnt pull no where as many amps. I think he runs a 16 or 20 inch wheel. A 20 would prob be better for me. Maybe i could find a compatible 16... gotta start considering fork clearance. Bike still parked still dead... just debating should i resurrect this clyte just to play around with until my bonus from work comes through. But i believe im gonna lean towards the cyclone kit i mentioned earlier i just have to buy a new bike the kit wont properly fit on the schwinn.... and its had better days.... prob only needs new rims and tires but it took a beating when i took it off roading at a park by my house....unkitted. Just need some figures and first hands before i waste my time so speak up link if ur out there. How tall are you and specifically what type of bike is the packcyle. and is it comfortable for light riding...

 

[Link]

20" $60 Next BMX bike from Wal-Mart.

6'1" ~180lbs last time I checked. The seat HAD to go. My rear hurt after about a mile of riding with the original. I replaced it with a $20 foam seat and it's much better now. Though I didn't tighten it right at first and made the mistake of going down a sidewalk ramp-thing at over 20mph. Moved the seat so that I nearly fell ass-first into the rear wheel. Good thing I didn't, else no kids for me!

Anyway, after I replaced (and properly tightened) the seat, I found it a fairly comfortable ride for the ~3 miles to work, especially after I swapped the pegs to the front wheel to rest my feet on (beware tire burn on your legs :wink. I've got a second pair of 14mm pegs on the rear axle now, too, but I accidentally raeped the 24V SLA subpack when it got plugged in to the 48V charger. As a result, I haven't ridden it in a while and can't say how well a motorcycle-style position works.

 

[icecube57]

i think we have some intresting developements. I disassembled the motor to see what was wrong today. Apparently the brush holder snapped on one side and was cracked on the other side where the brushes were but the brushes were still somewhat intact. normal wear. The springs were still good everything was good. The holder is made out of some extruded plastic normal plastic becomes pliable at higher temps instead of breaking but that what supposedly caused the grinding noise i mentioned earlier. I put a spare WE brush in a crystalyte motor (grins). It fit fine and everything and i reassemble everything but some reason it wasnt spinng freely like it should. I took everything back apart comes to find out two of the magnets fell off the axel and grinding on the inside of the motor..... my and my afro engineering degree i inherently obtained at birth.... i cleaned up the old WE axel put the new brush holder in it and reassembled it in the clyte motor and it spins and runs fine. Going out for a test run at 36v and bump it up to 48 and keeep it there a while. Im going to start pedaling alot more possibly take it back up to 60v and maybe 72 and realize its not a motor bike and lay off the throttle to give the motor time to cool. If all runs well it will be a donor motor for a bmx bike i got in the works possibly at 72v. Gotta love the smaller wheels. I wanna make a stoke monkey for some odd reason but dont have any place to put the motor lol. Im glad i had the WE motor for donor parts. Im trying to find a brushless 406/409 and a dual speed 36-72v 35A controller but it seems like there is a global wipeout on motors and controllers and cant source anywhere.

 

[hamblin10]

Can anybody explain how to wire a ecrazyman 36v 800 watt brushed controller to a BD36 kit? The throttle has 4 wires but the controller input has 3 wires.

Thanks.

 

[Link]

Prolly should start another thread for that...

But cutting off the extra voltage wire that runs the LEDS should do the trick.