nut and bolt maintenance

E-HP

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Sort of a bike mechanical question, but probably has an ebike component, but what do folks use as far as a maintenance schedule for checking and retightening nuts and bolts on ebikes. I usually check axle nuts regularly, but everything else randomly, and usually when I spot parts about to fall off my bike. My rack bolts are a big component of that, but in general most nuts and bolts seem to loosen over time, so I want to get into a better routine.

In thinking more about it, I don't think ebike bolts/nuts loosen more frequently than a pedal bike (using a time based maintenance schedule), but more related to mileage, which is a lot higher for ebikes. I'm sure that when a bike is subject to several thousand miles a year vs several hundred, the bike with the higher miles will need more frequent maintenance. Is checking all the bolts every thousand miles enough? It's mainly avoiding the PITA when you lose a bolt, instead of just having to tighten it down. Any good routines that folks are using out there?
 
Maybe slapping some lock washers on would help? Only time I ever got surprised so far was the bolts holding a folding bike's handlebars from turning coming loose. Not fun. Brakes rotated out of reach.

Definitely made me buy some loctite and throw out my Allen wrenches in favor of a socket wrench and impact driver with hex tips. I even bought a micro socket wrench for the tough to reach places:

Allen wrenches tend to dig into your hand before you can get good torque on.
 
Maybe slapping some lock washers on would help? Only time I ever got surprised so far was the bolts holding a folding bike's handlebars from turning coming loose. Not fun. Brakes rotated out of reach.

Definitely made me buy some loctite and throw out my Allen wrenches in favor of a socket wrench and impact driver with hex tips. I even bought a micro socket wrench for the tough to reach places:

Allen wrenches tend to dig into your hand before you can get good torque on.
Thanks! Oh, no, now tempted to buy another tool that I probably don't need, but want because I don't have one, LOL. I carry a cheap Harbor Freight hex set (the folding one) in my bag, since I usually spot things while out riding. But now, I'm adding a tube of loctite in my bag too for the field repairs!
 
My rack bolts are a big component of that, but in general most nuts and bolts seem to loosen over time, so I want to get into a better routine.
That usually means there is either insufficient torque on the fasteners, or insufficient / incorrect hardware to stay secured in that situation.

Sometimes all that is needed is loctite, sometimes special lockwashers or locknuts are required. Certain situations can call for less common solutions like castellated nuts that are used on bolts that have holes in them for a wire to be tied thru the castellations.

Sometimes things loosen because of the design of the materials being fastened together--for instance, if you have a tube that has a bolt running thru it that can compress across the tube diameter, with no internal spacer-tube from one side to the other to prevent it, then the fastener will squish the tube, and so will never be tightened properly. Worse, if the fastener secures something else to that tube in a way that the other thing can apply torque against the tube face via the fastener inboard face(s), it can pry the tube and fastener and sqush the tube more, and then the system is not tensioned at all and things can just move around however, making it worse (since now the fastener can actually wear the hole in the fastened things so it's larger than the fastener diameter, until eventually it tears thru one of them).

Sometimes they loosen because the entire method used to connect things together is wrong, and can never resist the applied forces. Rack mounting hardware is commonly poorly designed for it's purpose, since it is usualy more important to the designer that the rack fits more types of bike frames (that don't have dedicated hardpoints for it) than that it stay attached to any of them. (also a problem for hubmotors and torque arm solutions).


Sometimes they loosen because the materials themselves are just not capable of withstanding the forces applied to them at that point, so they deform at the interface and the fasteners are then free to rotate, etc.


A routine to maintain the problems so they don't actually fail does prevent the failure...but fixing the root cause can mean not needing to check them. ;)


FWIW, aircraft have maintenance schedules with different inspection intervals for different parts because of wear or fatigue issues known on those parts and systems; if you follow this kind of setup and note down how long it takes for certain things to loosen or deform, etc., then make up a maintenance schedule based on those, you can be more sure of not having problems without spending as much time doing maintenance, if there are few things that need checking at any one time.

Or you can simply note the shortest interval between any issues, and recheck everything at that interval, to simplify the scheduling.

Or something in between.


When I am experimenting with a new build I usually have to replace parts that fall off ;) at first, until I redesign those parts (or use different fasteners) to not have that problem, until I eventually reach the point at which I can ignore the whole thing except for known maintenance rquirements such as greasing things, airing up tires, recharging batteries. But not fasteners...they just stay where they should.


BTW, loctite comes in multiple types for different situations and usages. Be sure you use the kind you need, or it may not do the job, or may make it difficult or impossible to remove a fastener when you do need to. It also is designed to work on clean surfaces, so if you have something in a place that gets lubrication (intentionally or not) then if it didn't get loctited before being lubricated, it's probalby not going to stay secured as well as it would if it had.
 
That usually means there is either insufficient torque on the fasteners, or insufficient / incorrect hardware to stay secured in that situation.

Sometimes all that is needed is loctite, sometimes special lockwashers or locknuts are required. Certain situations can call for less common solutions like castellated nuts that are used on bolts that have holes in them for a wire to be tied thru the castellations.

When I am experimenting with a new build I usually have to replace parts that fall off ;) at first, until I redesign those parts (or use different fasteners) to not have that problem, until I eventually reach the point at which I can ignore the whole thing except for known maintenance rquirements such as greasing things, airing up tires, recharging batteries. But not fasteners...they just stay where they should.
Well I just figured out that I need to replace my rack again. A month shy of 3 years of service on this one, and around 9k miles. I lost track of time; obviously a maintenance schedule of checking bolts every 3 years is too long. I have a seatpost collar that is tapped for two rack bolt connections, and one of the two backed out last week, so I tightened it while out on a ride. The second bolt that backed out, is on the same side, and is the front left anchor point for the rack, attached to the arm with the bolt that backed out earlier, so obviously vibration loosened both (or one, then the other). The only other bolt that loosened was 6 months ago. The bolts on the right side were still tight with no sign of loosening.
Anyway, the second bolt that backed out, also ended up stripping the tapped holes in a small aluminum block that supports the rack, and allows adjustment. Looks like those threads are now close to stripped, but holding for now.
I'm hoping that using loctite on the initial assembly/install of the new rack will make it last a little longer. I think the last one (identical) lasted about the same time, but that was taken out by one of the legs breaking off due to fatigue.
 
I think you're right about mileage-based fastener-checking schedule rather than time-based. I'll also add service level-based to the equation (more rugged usage or environment = more frequent checking).

Most of my fastener issues are also with the peripherals and accessories such as lights, racks, fenders. These are mostly 5mm allen-head screws that either screw into a threaded boss on the frame or are backed up with a nut.

For fastening screw into threaded boss application I have found a simple split washer (correctly sized) placed directly under the head of the screw keeps it in place more or less permanently. Sometimes it requires an additional larger flat washer when securing round fender struts to the frame. (Flat washer between the split washer and round fender strut.) When a nut is required I have had satisfactory results from nylon-insert nuts (nylox). NOTE: Nylon-insert nuts are not a good solution for hubmotor axle nuts.

A good fastener-checking schedule that works well for me is at the same time as chain cleaning/lubing. The chain will start to feel "rough" and become noisier and alert me to do the chain maintenance and fastener checking. In worse conditions this will arrive more frequently. I happen to pedal hard at all times, YMMV.

Yes to checking hubmotor axle nuts and TAs more frequently, that is almost its own category.

I also like to turn the bike upside down and use a small icepick to carefully flick out any glass or thorn shards from the tire treads as over time they can work their way further inwards thru the casings. Added bonus: Bike upside down helps the oil saturate the foam at the top of the front shock lower legs that keep the seals lubricated. (depends on the shock model and technology).
 
I usually check axle nuts regularly, but everything else randomly, and usually when I spot parts about to fall off my bike.
I have this exciting vision of riding along in a permanent state of anxiety, missing the scenery while I scan my bike for the next piece that tries to go AWOL.

You and others mention schedules, based on time or distance. In both cases, you'll need to keep records, so a suggestion: adopt a weekly inspection for now and keep a record. After a while you'll have the knowledge of what needs attention on what interval. Then you can tell us, and spread your inspections out knowing you have the right intervals.

If you aren't waxing your chain, you almost certainly need to clean and inspect that weekly.

Also, get a small torque wrench for bicycles in the range for your fasteners, and you can use the values published by Park Tools (and/or others). Use temporary thread lock on items that warrant it. I use a Feedback Sports Range wrench, but since I'm also using a motor with bigger nuts, I'm shopping for a larger one in that range.

If something comes loose after you're doing this, it's designed or implemented wrong (or worn, perhaps) in my opinion.
 
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