Hey guys! I had a 1500w 52v kit that I had been using for a couple years and decided I needed more power. I thought to myself "Twice as much power would be perfect!" so I bought a 3000w 72v kit from NBpower. I'm not sure what they put in this thing but it's extremely dangerous! The first time I tapped the throttle it cracked the pavement on my road and I felt the planet stop rotating as the front end came off the ground! Even if I put it in level 1 assist, It is still this torquey. I can get the front end to stay down if I reduce the amps to the motor to only 20amps but then I don't have the power when I want it. Anyone got any tips for taming the throttle response?
TOO MUCH TORQUE
- Thread starter Kronik
- Start date
Is it an FOC controller? If so, it will have a setup program or app that probably has a throttle response curve, or some form of settings to change how the torque control of the motor responds to the throttle input.
It may have something similar even with a non-FOC controller, but that's less likely by far.
If there is no option in the controller itself to do this, you can change to an FOC controller that does have this option. (but you will have to tune it to your specific motor and system to make it work).
Or you can change the throttle itself to one with a different output curve. A potentiometer type with a logarithmic pot (instead of linear) would be the simplest/best option for a response like you probably want. A cable-operated type instead of one with the electronics on the handlebars would be easiest to experiment with, as you can probably swap the pot out in it relatively easily for a log pot if it comes with a linear one, much easier than in a bar-mounted type. (To use a COT you change the throttle mechanism on your handlebars for one that pulls a cable, like a typical motorcycle/atv/etc type).
Or you can get the Cycle Analyst v3 from ebikes.ca and configure it for one of the various ways it has to give you different levels of response.
If you're up for a bit of coding, you could use something like an Arduino Nano to take your throttle input and convert it to a different curve of voltage for the output, for a more logarithmic response.
FWIW, in most controllers with assist levels, these only vary the PAS response; the throttle usually still controls the full capabilities. So if changing the assist level settings doesn't affect the problem at all, that's probably why.
It may have something similar even with a non-FOC controller, but that's less likely by far.
If there is no option in the controller itself to do this, you can change to an FOC controller that does have this option. (but you will have to tune it to your specific motor and system to make it work).
Or you can change the throttle itself to one with a different output curve. A potentiometer type with a logarithmic pot (instead of linear) would be the simplest/best option for a response like you probably want. A cable-operated type instead of one with the electronics on the handlebars would be easiest to experiment with, as you can probably swap the pot out in it relatively easily for a log pot if it comes with a linear one, much easier than in a bar-mounted type. (To use a COT you change the throttle mechanism on your handlebars for one that pulls a cable, like a typical motorcycle/atv/etc type).
Or you can get the Cycle Analyst v3 from ebikes.ca and configure it for one of the various ways it has to give you different levels of response.
If you're up for a bit of coding, you could use something like an Arduino Nano to take your throttle input and convert it to a different curve of voltage for the output, for a more logarithmic response.
FWIW, in most controllers with assist levels, these only vary the PAS response; the throttle usually still controls the full capabilities. So if changing the assist level settings doesn't affect the problem at all, that's probably why.
Your issue is related to going up in voltage, not power. Before, full throttle would send 52V to the motor and now it sends 72V. Your throttle is now 40% more sensitive, and since hall sensor throttles are not linear, a little nudge of the throttle can flip you over. The other issue that may come into play is the type of throttle control the new controller has compared to the old one. If the first was a torque based throttle and the new is speed based, that will make the issue even worse, since any amount of throttle will provide full power, until the bike reaches the speed that amount of twist is supposed to provide. You're lucky you only went with 3000W.
I'd invest either in a good potentiometer based throttle or in a Cycle Analyst. The pot throttle will be more linear, but still may be too sensitive, especially if the new controller has a speed based throttle circuit. The CA will allow you to program the throttle up rate and choose the throttle type (power, speed, torque/current, etc.). Both cost about the same, but the CA does a lot more than moderate your throttle.
DaLanMan
10 kW
::falls over giggling::
Many many moons ago I had a pretty nice lil rice rocket, Loved my lil CBR, but I am a big guy, it is a little bike and I wanted more power.
Like 4 seconds later I was the proud owner of a 1600CC Katana. For those of you who never met one of these, they growl and eat humans for breakfast. Lunch is usually something tougher, like scottish food.
In any case, it took me a month to manage to take off from a stop light without the front end floating (not quite a weelie, but next best thing) and this bike was excessively long...
My eventual answer was learning to adjust, and then I bought a Ducati. Some of us never do learn.
999zip999
100 TW
How big are you how much do you weigh I've learned to hunch more over my handlebars and don't cry like Mary Poppins with my tits out and back erect straight.
What battery do you have with this motor combo ?
I bought a Sali 3,000 72v for 345.00usd shipped. Cheap plus it has a different controller the insides the guts I have an open it up yet and they won't answer any questions about it it doesn't have regen as I know it. And it doesn't kick like my Lyen 72v50amp Muxus 4t 3,000 that hits the throttle so hard the front wheel comes off the ground unless I can control it by the C.A. .
Still don't know how to program the C.A. V3
How much was your kit ? By the way my mountain bike is an extra large frame and I'm 6 ft 3 250 lb that helps to keep the wheel down that's why I asked how much you weigh I let the neighbor kid ride my bike and it did three wheelies on the Sali kit. Hate to see him ride that Lyen controller.
What battery do you have with this motor combo ?
I bought a Sali 3,000 72v for 345.00usd shipped. Cheap plus it has a different controller the insides the guts I have an open it up yet and they won't answer any questions about it it doesn't have regen as I know it. And it doesn't kick like my Lyen 72v50amp Muxus 4t 3,000 that hits the throttle so hard the front wheel comes off the ground unless I can control it by the C.A. .
Still don't know how to program the C.A. V3
How much was your kit ? By the way my mountain bike is an extra large frame and I'm 6 ft 3 250 lb that helps to keep the wheel down that's why I asked how much you weigh I let the neighbor kid ride my bike and it did three wheelies on the Sali kit. Hate to see him ride that Lyen controller.
999zip999
100 TW
Da Lan Man is it okay to have wheelie bars on the quintana I know if you put them on the Ducati the factory are coming take it away.
I guess Willie bars are a type of training wheels huh.
Kronik you could just get a different controller for that 1500 watt motor . Is it a 28 mm magnet motor a 30 mm or 35 mm 1500 motor
I guess Willie bars are a type of training wheels huh.
Kronik you could just get a different controller for that 1500 watt motor . Is it a 28 mm magnet motor a 30 mm or 35 mm 1500 motor
DaLanMan
10 kW
I was fine, I mean if by fine needing to make sure I had a bag attached for when I pee'd m'self.
and for those wondering, it ain't pissing your pants if you don't manage to muscle down on the first psst, it is just human nature and the inadequate controls placed on bladders.
Someone needs to talk to the designer of these things.
Oh, and this weekend I picked up (ok, my buddy fetched for me, I was busy totally not hallucinating from fever), a brand new pair of hub motor rims... The prior owner was trying to upgrade his bike to these units and chickened out. So being the big brave lad I am now own what I believe to be (we will discuss when I have a camera and functioning eyes) or at least am told to be. a pair of 1.5kw hub motors.
So, about that whole what controller not to use thing...
and for those wondering, it ain't pissing your pants if you don't manage to muscle down on the first psst, it is just human nature and the inadequate controls placed on bladders.
Someone needs to talk to the designer of these things.
Oh, and this weekend I picked up (ok, my buddy fetched for me, I was busy totally not hallucinating from fever), a brand new pair of hub motor rims... The prior owner was trying to upgrade his bike to these units and chickened out. So being the big brave lad I am now own what I believe to be (we will discuss when I have a camera and functioning eyes) or at least am told to be. a pair of 1.5kw hub motors.
So, about that whole what controller not to use thing...
999zip999
100 TW
Plus what motor kit did you get a QS ? Or a generic 3000 watt motor or do they sell the Mxus 3,000 watt motor too.
Still what is the width of the magnets as they have written it up a few different ways with a few different magnets widths ? Same question for you Batman figure out how wide the magnets are 28 - 35 or 40 mm all of these can be called 1,500 watt motors. And all of these are called 2,000 w motors. Depends who Prints the specs that's all . Or marketing.
Still what is the width of the magnets as they have written it up a few different ways with a few different magnets widths ? Same question for you Batman figure out how wide the magnets are 28 - 35 or 40 mm all of these can be called 1,500 watt motors. And all of these are called 2,000 w motors. Depends who Prints the specs that's all . Or marketing.
DaLanMan
10 kW
just as soon as I can dump the wife aggro and give a clear temp test that doesn't say "did you boil this water?" I will be pulling things apart, sorry I am old fat and slow, it happens to all of us eventually.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Kronic,
The CA has a big range of adjustments and usually can tame a wildcat ebike — by throttle signal modification. But for a few more $$$ you can get low end programmable Fardriver controller. I have 4 sizes of QS mid-drive motors in 6 ebikes and MC conversions. Most of them have both the CA installed as RO and a Fardriver controller. I do use the controllers quite a bit more than the CA for making performance changes.
In particular the 3 programmable modes( called gears by Fardriver) are quite useful as you program each mode to limit amps, top speed etc.
The CA has a big range of adjustments and usually can tame a wildcat ebike — by throttle signal modification. But for a few more $$$ you can get low end programmable Fardriver controller. I have 4 sizes of QS mid-drive motors in 6 ebikes and MC conversions. Most of them have both the CA installed as RO and a Fardriver controller. I do use the controllers quite a bit more than the CA for making performance changes.
In particular the 3 programmable modes( called gears by Fardriver) are quite useful as you program each mode to limit amps, top speed etc.
I replaced my entire kit. The new kit is from NBpower and it came with a Sabvoton controller with the UKC1 display. It looks like I need an adapter and app to change most stuff but I'm new to this stuff and would be guessing lol. The battery is 80bms. I noticed last night that I almost spun it out of the dropouts and I have it reduced to 20amps. I think I will need to find someone who can tune it for me and make me some decent torque arms. It's fcking scary.
What is the CA lol?
I replaced the whole kit. I need a Bluetooth or USB adapter from Sabvoton just to program it I guess. I have no idea how to set it though.
DingusMcGee
10 kW
Kronik,
BTW — Sabvoton does not equal Fardriver.. I have had 2 Sabvotons. Lesson learned — Never Again.
CA = CycleAnalyst is an ebike instrument from ebikes.ca that has a shunt circuit, throttle signal modification and wheel speed input.
BTW — Sabvoton does not equal Fardriver.. I have had 2 Sabvotons. Lesson learned — Never Again.
CA = CycleAnalyst is an ebike instrument from ebikes.ca that has a shunt circuit, throttle signal modification and wheel speed input.
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DingusMcGee
10 kW
Kronik,
Likely if can use the ins-and-outs of a smart phone you could soon learn to program a CA. You can get the user documentation free from ebikes.ca and decide if you can code it. Help is often avail on this site.
The Fardriver controller programming is menu driven and choices are easy but what the choices actually do is very poorly documented in English or described mechanical/electrically very well. The best documentation i have seen is on YouTube — Fardriver Adjudtment by EMX Brandon? Something like that.
See:
A CA cannot override the limits set by the controller so for some modifications you would need a very programmable controller, but for what you say you want the CA with the Sabvoton will likely be able to tame your ebike.
Likely if can use the ins-and-outs of a smart phone you could soon learn to program a CA. You can get the user documentation free from ebikes.ca and decide if you can code it. Help is often avail on this site.
The Fardriver controller programming is menu driven and choices are easy but what the choices actually do is very poorly documented in English or described mechanical/electrically very well. The best documentation i have seen is on YouTube — Fardriver Adjudtment by EMX Brandon? Something like that.
See:
A CA cannot override the limits set by the controller so for some modifications you would need a very programmable controller, but for what you say you want the CA with the Sabvoton will likely be able to tame your ebike.
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lnanek
1 kW
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2022
- Messages
- 452
Doesn't Sabvoton have a connector to enable soft start?
nexun.pl
Sounds preferable to limiting battery/phase amps all the time, which will affect your hill climbing as well.
Sabvoton ML7260 controller (vector) programmable
Technical data: Power supply: 30V - 85V (minimum 10s package, max 20s LiIon) Current: 5-60A (phase max 170A) Dimensions: 220x110x50mm Weight: 1250 g Maximum power: 5kW Programming cable included.
Sounds preferable to limiting battery/phase amps all the time, which will affect your hill climbing as well.
See this helpful post from ES member TommyCat. You may be able to softstart and smooth out your throttle response by splicing a couple of potentiometers:
endless-sphere.com
Soft-Start
Hi guys, I've been searching the forums as am sure I have seen somewhere an Arduino being used for soft-start functionality.. Or maybe am just seeing things in my old age !!! Am sure this has got to have been done before, so before I attempt to reinvent the wheel, does anyone know of who or...
endless-sphere.com
999zip999
100 TW
Yes a torque arm is extremely necessary for your power and make sure the torque arm is thick. As there are many thin ones that will cut through the axle.
There are many different threads on endless spear that talk about different type of torque arms
There are many different threads on endless spear that talk about different type of torque arms
A pair of ebikes.ca's torque arms would suffice. I ran a leafbike 1.5kw at 6kw with 1kw of regen and they held up.
If you search for 'sabvoton programming' on this forum, it's easy to find information on how that's done:
Example search query:
Search results for query: sabvoton programming
