Warren's 350 MAC mid-drive (finally) recumbent

Today was 10 degrees cooler, but still a beautiful day for a ride. I saw a big turtle in the road. He had his head in, so he will probably get crushed by a car before he gets across. Saw a crushed skunk, and crushed vulture too. I f_king hate cars! The freezing temps we had, after our summer weather last month, killed all our magnolia blossoms, but the red buds are hardier and survived. I rode to Scottsville for lunch at Crust and Crumb.

http://crustandcrumb.yolasite.com/

I ate at a picnic table. The farm next door has bee hives. and I was amazed at the number of bees on the tree blossoms.

60.93 mi, 3:04, 19.8 av, 37.5 max, 15.1 Wh/mile. 27,357 miles so far
 
A Mac motor with 28,xxx miles on it ?

I am impressed, any maintanince done to the motor ?

What turn 6T or 8/10/12 ?

I often think about selling my 2013 6 T winding Mac motor and getting something new, but seeing this thread has me rethinking that.
 
ScooterMan101,

Yeah. Still going strong since September of 2011. Not sure on the turns. It was the only 350 watt MAC front motor that EM3ev offered back then. I'd say it would do about 20 mph, in a 26" wheel, at 39 volts. I lost a hall sensor after two years, and switched to a sensorless. I have noticed the gears getting a bit loud the last month. I may open it up to grease it, or replace the gears, as I bought a spare set with the motor. The motor lives a pretty easy life as a mid-drive. I always start in low. On the level that means a peak of 450 watts. It will see peaks of 750 watts, if I am shifting early to try beating cars across the intersection....much lower peaks than you'd see in a wheel.
 
Good Idea to open it up , I have seen the insides of the Mac, and a Q100c and know that someday I will have to clean out old grease and put in new grease.

My Mac had one of it's sensor wires melted off the motor , at the solder part of the wire to the motor , I paid someone to fix it. It has all new hall sensors and runs fine again, in fact it feels just a slight bit better now.

Good to know that it will run fine sensorless.
 
Rode through Green Springs Historic district, over Southwest Mountain, to Stony Point Market for lunch again today...lots of gravel roads.

crossingintohistoricdistrict.jpg
onelanebridgeahead.jpg
timemachine.jpg
rightfork.jpg
leftfork.jpg
EJackJuettRoad.jpg

Jack Jouett was Virginia's version of Paul Revere.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Jouett

48.36 mi, 2:42.58, 17.8 av, 38.7 max, 17.0 Wh/mi, 28,300 miles, so far.
 
Yesterday was a perfect Virginia early summer day; high 80s, light breeze, billowing clouds, vegetation so lush it feels threatening. I rode backroads, past historic markers, and through towns (Kents Store, Columbia, Duncans Store, New Canton, Bremo Bluff, Fork Union, Carysbrook, Wilmington) that briefly held promise, a century or more ago.
MAGA.jpg
truckgraveyard1.jpg
truckgraveyard2.jpg
truckgraveyard3.jpg
gastankfarmapproach.jpg
gasglut.jpg
BremoBluff.jpg

Thirteen years ago, I installed a radio telemetry electric meter here, when this was still a going drive-in.

ForkUnionDriveIn.jpg
projectionbooth.jpg
Carysbrookapproach.jpg
Allthatremains.jpg
approachingRivanna.jpg
Rivannacrossing.jpg
HellsBendRoad.jpg
buriedpast.jpg

Wilmington was once the county seat. It was moved to Palmyra, on the Rivanna, in 1828. The canal systems were the interstates of their day, and Wilmington withered away.

http://www.rivannariver.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/RCS-Rivanna-River-History.pdf

Wilmingtonright.jpg
Wilmingtonleft.jpg

You can barely see the 76 Bike Route marker in this picture. This route, created before the bicentennial, is now called the TransAmerica Trail.

Wimingtoncenter.jpg

64.84 mi, 19.5 av, 38.8 max, 15.9 Wh/mi, 28,487 miles so far.
 
I love it ... it's like a free travel and leisure magazine, except that it's also got critical information like watt hours per mile. I too am a recumbent rider (mostly Bacchetta high racers) for anything over a few miles, and am contemplating electric assist for my golden years riding (am 69 now). I've learned from following ES for a few years that nothing beats 'real world data' for helping plan a realistic ebike build. Thanks Warren!
 
rowbiker,

Bacchetta high racers are great. Probably won't work in Minnesota. But here in central Virginia, we have been able to ride year round for the last decade. I junked my car a year and a half ago. E-assist recumbents are better than cars or pedal bikes. Never haul a bike on a car again.
 
Actually, it *does* work in Minnesota. I've been riding year round, only opting out if the temps are below zero -- but lately that only happens a few days a year, even up here. Mostly due to laziness, I have a special 'winter bike' equipped with studded tires that I use when trails/roads are icy. I used to change tires seasonally but discovered that in recent years, with warmer winters, that I ride my 'summer bike' more often than not even in the winter, hence the additional bike for just those days when the roads require it. I too have gotten rid of my car. The availability of really good performance clothing for cold weather has made this all not only possible, but even enjoyable.

I've been searching ES for good recumbent e-assist threads, so if you know of others beyond this one that you'd recommend, I'd appreciate any tips.
 
rowbiker,

I grew up in Wisconsin, and did cross country skiing, and winter camping. Had studded tires on my car, but I don't think they were available for bikes back then. I remember the derailleurs freezing up, with slush, on my Frejus. That was the end of winter biking for me. :)

Living in Virginia for the last 43 years, I have gotten soft. I can't imagine dealing northern winters anymore. Winter is actually my favorite riding season here now...less traffic, and easier to control temperature with layers. Summer leaves one layer...not much you can do with that. I dream of a sun roof/solar panel, if it wasn't a nightmare, in crosswinds, for a two wheeler.

Your handle is rowbiker. Do you row, and ride, or are you a rowbiker?

modifiedThys.jpg
 
I am going to stick this link right here.

http://www.geocities.ws/rcgilmore3/index-2.html

I don't know if Roger is still alive, but he and I spent many hours searching for unusual human powered stuff, and discussing rowing designs. Unfortunately, most of the links are gone now. Twenty years from now, I am afraid that most of the history of the late twentieth, and early twenty-first centuries will have vanished, along with the cloud.
 
Warren said:
I grew up in Wisconsin, and did cross country skiing, and winter camping. Had studded tires on my car, but I don't think they were available for bikes back then. I remember the derailleurs freezing up, with slush, on my Frejus. That was the end of winter biking for me. :)
Click to expand...
There is that issue of ice busting derailleurs, but my wife is an expert shopper and has found good deals on replacements!

Warren said:
Living in Virginia for the last 43 years, I have gotten soft. I can't imagine dealing northern winters anymore. Winter is actually my favorite riding season here now...less traffic, and easier to control temperature with layers. Summer leaves one layer...not much you can do with that. I dream of a sun roof/solar panel, if it wasn't a nightmare, in crosswinds, for a two wheeler.
Click to expand...

I went to a presentation the other night at the U of MN's engineering dept showing off new research using "quantum dots" in building materials that 'concentrate' solar power. Sometime in the future solar panels won't be bulky contraptions anymore. I probably won't live long enough to use them on my bike, but...


Warren said:
Your handle is rowbiker. Do you row, and ride, or are you a rowbiker?
Click to expand...

My current 'retirement hobby' is adding electric assist to the U.S. based "RowBike" (rowbike.com) -- as opposed to the Dutch (Thys) based "rowingbike.com". Justin and his gang have been extremely helpful in this venture, and I'm currently a 'beta tester' of the CAv3 "Skateboard" firmware, which, as it turns out is a better choice for electrifying a rowbike -- which doesn't have any pedals, and no good way to implement PAS. We're going the route of strain gauges on the handlebars, a custom instrumentation amp, the 'skateboard' version CAv3, a Phaserunner controller, and a Crystalyte hubbie.

Thys' model, of which we have one, is more elegant and sophisticated than the RowBike, but also much more expensive. I had the pleasure several years back of being Dirk's stoker on his 'front-and-back' rowingbike in Holland. Probably the weirdest biking experience I've ever encountered. He's a great guy and wish he were local. I saw your photo of the 'modified' model -- is that yours? I'll try to scrape some photos together and send them along.
 
Warren said:
Unfortunately, most of the links are gone now. Twenty years from now, I am afraid that most of the history of the late twentieth, and early twenty-first centuries will have vanished, along with the cloud.
Click to expand...
At least for now, a fair bit of otherwise-vanished stuff around the web still has versions at http://archive.org , though not all the content is always there. If you know a site that should be saved you can put it in there, and it'll save it, then you can test the saved version to make sure all the images/etc are also there.

You can also check for any of the stuff on that page to see if it's already there, too.
 
Riding with Derk would be better than e-assist! It was my bike, since sold. I make a small donation to the internet archive every year.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120116172910/http://rowvelo.com/

OMG! The patents are still there. :)

https://web.archive.org/web/20060207194835/http://webpages.charter.net/rcgilmore/Illustrations.htm#Patents
 
I left the house at 12:40 pm today, to ride to the Crust and Crumb for lunch. Crossing the bridge over the interstate was interesting, as there were no cars going west. Earlier in the day, a diesel tanker wrecked, and closed all four lanes. By now only the westbound side was closed. The old federal highway, westbound, was almost at a standstill. When I got home, at 4pm, it still looks like this.

looking west.jpg

looking east.jpg

What an incredibly stupid transportation system. Running passenger vehicles next to huge trucks, all going twice as fast as most people are capable of driving safely. The interstates should be light electric rail lines. Long distance freight should be on electric freight trains, and people should be driving LEVs on the secondary roads.

58.44 miles, 2:50.28, 20.5 av, 34.8 max, 16.1 Wh/mi, 28,816 miles so far
 
I and many others agree with you on this transportation philosophy. See the work being done by Bill James (jpods.com) to implement a "lighter" electric driven transportation system. His prototypes are now using Grin's Phaserunner controllers paired with the Israeli built (Alexey) RV-120 BLDC motors. Fun stuff!

I got a chance to ride my (as of yet non-electric assist, but am working on it) Bacchetta recumbent from Saint Paul (MN) to the new "St. Croix Crossing" bridge into Wisconsin yesterday. It was a relatively easy 66 mile round trip, but my 69 year old 'engine' is definitely looking forward to some e-assist. Just for some variety, and to be fair to the competition, I rode a "FullFatSix" Model 7 Haibike (fat tire upright with a Yamaha mid-drive) last week for a 43 mile jaunt. Power assist was pretty smooth, and battery range was impressive -- but my butt and wrists were hurting by the end of the ride, reminding me of why we love our 'bents.

I'm still on the fence for what my 'best' solution is, but I sure do see your experiences as basically what I'm after -- including the lunches! Knowing everything you now know, and had to start all over with a high racer recumbent to which you're adding e-assist, what would you do?
 
rowbiker,

If I wasn't going to build a bike from scratch, I'd go with a Bacchetta Giro 26/26.

https://www.bacchettabikes.com/wp-content/uploads/Giro-26-ATT.png

I would dump the flip-it stem hinge. I hate those things. Crashed the RANS Screamer once trying to spray a dog with Halt, riding one hand, and hitting the brake. The bars folded forward. That came off when we got home. I would probably run a BBSHD, with two chainrings, and a fat bike front derailleur. I would mount two, 14s7p, 23.8 Ah packs, wired in parallel, one on either side, under the seat on Terracycle racks.

http://t-cycle.com/easy-reacher-underseat-racks-c-12/bacchetta-rack-p-116.html

I would have to track down the CA3 mod that somebody did on a Bafang, as I am totally spoiled at this point.
 
Thanks for the great info, Warren. I already have the Giro 26 (as well as a G20), so I'm set there. I'd never considered the 'flip stem' issue, but agree with you that it can be a disaster waiting to happen. How did you convert it to 'fixed'?

I've thought of the Bafang approach, but I really love electric (regen) braking, so that is a 'must have.' I don't really care about the range extension part of it, but I love the smoothness of the braking. I currently have this implemented in an e-assist Rowbike (rear hubbie), and have gotten to depend on it. I'll be using a Phaserunner controller on whatever setup I end up with because it does such a great job.
 
For a DD motor setup, the Giro 26/20 would be great. Replace the aluminum fork with a cromo fork.

https://www.bacchettabikes.com/product/fork-steel-bacchetta/

I'd run this motor

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/motors/m3540f.html

in a 20" wheel with a 50-54mm tire. With the Phaserunner, it would be very controllable, with little concern for losing traction. I'd run ferrofluid, and heat sinks. I'd use the battery setup I described above. It would do ~30 mph max, and fly up steep hills at 20+ mph.

Mr. Bill runs a similar motor, and Phaserunner, on 14p EM3ev battery. He has a different wind in a 26" wheel. But this wind, in a 20" wheel, should be even better.

https://mrbill.homeip.net/hybridBike.php#edge1500Testing

You should be able to just remove the flip-it hinge, and slip the riser tube, and clamp right down over the fork steerer. You will need to ditch the steerer tube cap, bolt, and star nut, that is used to adjust headset play. You replace it with this device.

https://www.bacchettabikes.com/product/bft/
 
Warren said:
I'd run this motor

http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/motors/m3540f.html

in a 20" wheel with a 50-54mm tire. With the Phaserunner, it would be very controllable, with little concern for losing traction.
Click to expand...

Very solid suggestions -- thanks for the links. I'm already running a Crystalyte HT3525 in a 20" rear wheel (radial lacing by my wife!) on my e-Rowbike, which at 48V nominal gives me a 21 MPH top speed -- and more torque than is necessary. Ideally I would have gotten the high speed (HS) winding model, but it's a prototype and not a touring machine like what you've now got and what I'm after with an e-bent. I'll continue down this path and let you know what I end up with.
 
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