I bought a Townie bike w/ the idea of putting a rear hub motor on it, but the rear dropouts are pretty narrow. The Plan B was to make it into a stretched cargo bike and graft a wider set of dropouts on it. Something like a DIY Extracycle. I still love the idea, but realistically there's too many projects going on here for that right now. The quick and easy route is to just put a small geared hub motor on the front. Nothing big, maybe 250-350 watts max. However, I've never been on an eBike with a front hub motor and was wondering about the learning curve? Other than avoiding powering it up hard in curves and staying away from dirt or gravel (it's Tucson, so wet streets in the rain is not going to be an issue), would it handle roughly like a rear powered bike at speeds of no more than 15 MPH? Or would I always need to be aware that the front end could go skidding out from under me in the wrong situation?
What can one expect when going from a rear hub motor to a front hub motor?
- Thread starter momus3
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LeftieBiker
100 kW
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- Nov 5, 2012
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I saw the other thread, but don't remember if the Townie has a front suspension for or not. Once you get to 350 watts up front, a suspension fork becomes a liability, especially with the extra torque of a geared motor.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
I have a couple 350w front wheel drive bikes. One's great, the other has left me in bandages this week. They do come with some quirks.
I run 2.5" wide tires on both, one being a 20" and the other being a 26". the 20" has a weird direct drive, the 26" has a MXUS geared drive. Both have enough torque to spin the front wheel on dry clean pavement going in a straight line under the right conditions, and both have made me nearly crash because of it. Hit the throttle in a corner and hit a little sand, and both would go down pretty much instantly.
They are dangerous, but many ubiquitous things are. Your toaster is trying to kill you. Your waterheater is 1 defective relief valve away from blowing up. (Awesome Mythbuster's episode)
I have 5 running two wheeled ebikes at the moment. The other three are rear wheel drive and much safer, even though the least powerful of those is 3000w. And despite these two being the most dangerous, they are also the two I ride most often. I really do like them. They are fun to ride.
As for how they feel, that's a bit hard to describe directly. It's a bit like driving a front wheel drive car. It's a sensation of being pulled rather than being pushed that many people say they can't feel, while others are acutely aware of.
I run 2.5" wide tires on both, one being a 20" and the other being a 26". the 20" has a weird direct drive, the 26" has a MXUS geared drive. Both have enough torque to spin the front wheel on dry clean pavement going in a straight line under the right conditions, and both have made me nearly crash because of it. Hit the throttle in a corner and hit a little sand, and both would go down pretty much instantly.
They are dangerous, but many ubiquitous things are. Your toaster is trying to kill you. Your waterheater is 1 defective relief valve away from blowing up. (Awesome Mythbuster's episode)
I have 5 running two wheeled ebikes at the moment. The other three are rear wheel drive and much safer, even though the least powerful of those is 3000w. And despite these two being the most dangerous, they are also the two I ride most often. I really do like them. They are fun to ride.
As for how they feel, that's a bit hard to describe directly. It's a bit like driving a front wheel drive car. It's a sensation of being pulled rather than being pushed that many people say they can't feel, while others are acutely aware of.
Thanks for the feedback. There's actually a very funny video of a guy on youtube who put a front hub motor kit on his bike, and on his first ride he dropped it live on camera because he had accidentally put the wheel in backwards. When he hopped on it and hit the throttle, zoom, it went into reverse and he didn't make it 2 feet before it dumped him!
I'm going to abandon the front hub idea. After checking the bike over, I took it for a spin just now, and the front is twitchey even w/o a hub motor. My IWantPark Momentum had a longer wheelbase (and a lot longer name). In order to put it on a bus rack, I always had to flip the front wheel around to get it to fit in the racks. It was a lot more stable than this Townie. A mid drive isn't going to help the twitchiness, so it's back to stretching the frame and going w/ a rear hub motor or selling it.
I'm going to abandon the front hub idea. After checking the bike over, I took it for a spin just now, and the front is twitchey even w/o a hub motor. My IWantPark Momentum had a longer wheelbase (and a lot longer name). In order to put it on a bus rack, I always had to flip the front wheel around to get it to fit in the racks. It was a lot more stable than this Townie. A mid drive isn't going to help the twitchiness, so it's back to stretching the frame and going w/ a rear hub motor or selling it.
markz
100 TW
The Townie Electra 21D (3x7) can fit on a bus bike rack, the front wheel was still in the cradle but not in all the way. The rear I'd sink into the rack because it had the rear hub. I never tried it with a front hub, though I've ridden one on a Northrock Costco fat bike and it was fine, I rode it in the winter and fall, in snow and ice and I was just careful about it and just going normal bicycle speeds. The problem I remember is that when going up a steep embankment, I couldnt get the front hub to bite into the ground as a rear hub. I would power off the throttle on turns but going 10 or 15mph is fine for a front hub, just be sure to use torque arms.
Buying a rear hub motor kit for the Townie is the way to go, if you want something cheap, check out YESCOMUSA as their kits are cheap, I dont know what their shipping costs are like though. HPC has a few front hubs for sale on their ebay store, I believe it came to $260 delivered, CAD $.
Buying a rear hub motor kit for the Townie is the way to go, if you want something cheap, check out YESCOMUSA as their kits are cheap, I dont know what their shipping costs are like though. HPC has a few front hubs for sale on their ebay store, I believe it came to $260 delivered, CAD $.
As you mentioned mark, the Townie has a longer wheelbase than my eBike (which isn't twitchey). Since I sold my Momentum, I can't measure its wheelbase, but going by what I see on pictures the Momentum has a considerably longer wheelbase than the Townie. Different frame design too. The 2017/2018 Momentums are nearly impossible to find though, and the newer ones have a different design.
some threads about front vs rear
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=front+rear+motor&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/search.php?keywords=front+rear+motor&terms=all&author=&sc=1&sf=titleonly&sr=topics&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search
dogman dan
1 PW
Never noticed anything twitchy about my wifes townie 21. Not sure what you are experiencing. You got a bike that got crashed maybe? Bent frame? Can it be ridden no hands at all?
Townie rear dropouts typically ideal for a normal 135 mm wide motor. You have a single speed one?
4000w in a front motor got a bit touchy in corners, because controlling an actual drift on asphalt with that much power on a front wheel is quite different from rear wheel drifting. At 3000w, not enough power to actually drift, so full power at the apex of the turn worked great. Just, as with any bike of any type or power, NOT through a pile of sand on the road. I actually liked front hub a LOT, but the ability to ride dirt roads so much better with a rear motor, that I now have zero front hub bikes up and running. I live in desert suburb, so more dirt roads near my house than paved.
Townie rear dropouts typically ideal for a normal 135 mm wide motor. You have a single speed one?
4000w in a front motor got a bit touchy in corners, because controlling an actual drift on asphalt with that much power on a front wheel is quite different from rear wheel drifting. At 3000w, not enough power to actually drift, so full power at the apex of the turn worked great. Just, as with any bike of any type or power, NOT through a pile of sand on the road. I actually liked front hub a LOT, but the ability to ride dirt roads so much better with a rear motor, that I now have zero front hub bikes up and running. I live in desert suburb, so more dirt roads near my house than paved.
3000W is way more than enough power to drift, even on pavement. The key is to set up a sharp turn first to subtract most of your available traction. Think about it, if you're turning the bike right at the limit of what the tires can do, there will be almost no power required to start a slide. Getting your weight over the front is also very important. You will be drifting in no time, even on "only" 3000 watts.
As far as a bike being twitchy that may be a subjective thing from the user. For example, bicycles are all super twitchy if you're used to a motorcycle with more weight and a foot longer wheelbase.
As far as a bike being twitchy that may be a subjective thing from the user. For example, bicycles are all super twitchy if you're used to a motorcycle with more weight and a foot longer wheelbase.
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