Haro Express Deluxe Build

General Discussion about electric bicycles.
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DrkAngel
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Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 22, 2011 10:49 am

About a year ago, I picked up a 2010 Haro Express Deluxe for $100, some rich kid didn't want a bike with a leaky tire!
Color is an elegant "Rubyism" - $600 retail.
A 32lb, 700C, 24spd (8spd 11-32T)
170mm cranks
Beautiful eaBike potential!
Specs:

Image
Steel front suspension fork, but alloy dropouts ... Aaargh!

So ...

I intend to eventually apply my 44 Magnum rig to my Haro Express Deluxe.
Using an EZip type, rear hub-external motor, laced into a 700C wheel!
I, luckily, got 2, compatible, quick release hubs. - source is long gone! - very sorry! - sorry for myself ... especially!
Spoke flange diameter is smaller than EZip, possibly putting more stress on spokes, but the, alloy hub, wider flange, seems to "support" the spokes much better, less stress on the "elbow".
I feel confident that the wheel, (spokes), should hold up as well, or better, than the oem EZip.
Quick release wheel will be attached with a T-Plug mod, and instead of an additional bolt, to prevent "rotation", a simple tether - against direction of motor torque, a small chain or coated cable that loops around hook, or bolt.

Wheel will be rigged with an 11-34T 8-speed freewheel, which matches the oem 11-32T 8-speed nicely.
The 48 to 11T ratio, allows, comfortable pedal assist, past 30mph.
44 Magnum 1kWh pack w/ controller & EZip motor and mounting bracket should weigh 20-25lb max!
EZip motor at 44.4V should output 830watts with substantial and efficient output, near 30mph, and some assist, all the way to 40mph!(16T motor freewheel - of course!)
Total, road bike to ebike swap time ... might be 60 seconds!!!
Using spare wheel, so I can swap back to road bike, in the same time.

(Projected capabilities)
Total weight - ~55lb
Speed - 30mph++, 30 mph motor alone, 35mph+ w/pedal assist - near 40mph drafting behind truck or van
Electric range - 50 miles, if I can keep it about 20mph

44 Magnum
I will test my 44.4V Lipo pack, initially as a 1kWh saddlebag configuration.
22.2V per side, straddling the top, triangle, bar.
"Saddle" will be center supported, and cut, allowing it to push forward with some cell protrusion in front of steering column.
Possibly, I will mount a headlight between this front protrusion, and turn indicators, as outriggers ... camo.
Shifting the pack forward, in this manner, should allow adequate knee clearance, for pedaling.

Also, I intend this pack to be removable, and transferable.
So ... controller will be attached to saddlebag, in such a manner as to fit inside triangle, where all connections are placed.
When rigged as normal bike, standard, small type bag, should hide-protect wiring.

Such a setup would be ideal for a front hub conversion.
44 Magnum
Attachments
Haro01.JPG
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Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 02, 2016 12:27 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 22, 2011 11:37 pm

Haro eaBike cost -
Bike - $100
24V 450w Motor - $45
Motor bracket - $10
48V 50A Controller - $45
1kWh recycled LiPo cells - $80
Thumb throttle - $15
350mm suspension post - $20
LR hub - $5
Spare wheel - $25?
11-34T 8spd freewheel - $33
16T Southpaw freewheel - $18
Total cost - $396

Not included -
Battery bag - homemade
Wire, controller to motor

Damn, might cost almost as much as an EZip Trailz.
But:
25lbs lighter
Twice the speed
6 times the range
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by neptronix » Nov 23, 2011 1:41 am

For that price you could buy a DD Hub kit and still have money left over.
Cmon, the chance to build a real eBike is staring you in the face.
Take the training wheels off DrkAngel!!
My first major build: 8T MAC motor on a Trek 4500.
The new all-arounder: Leafmotor 1500w on a Turner O2 full suspension.
The wheelie machine: 20" Rear Magic Pie II on a Trek 4300 MTB

"The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now."- Chinese Proverb

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Haro Express Deluxe - Convertible

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 23, 2011 6:41 am

Quick 60 second from eaBike to bike, or back again.
Only leftover being a thumb throttle and about 4 feet of wire.

Nice perk is that the frame pack is a nice place to hide a switch.
Switch a resister into the Hall circuit.
Placing the appropriate value into the Hall circuit, should limit top speed to the "legal" limit.
"Switch" will bypass resister, allowing the, near 40mph speed.
Momentary contact button could be labeled "Turbo!"

For a few hundred dollars more, I could go to a geared hub motor, but I would really hate to double the cost, or give up the wonderfully smooth shifting 11-34T 8 speed rear end. The 48 to 11T pedal ratio gives me a comfortable 30mph and an "energetic" 40 mph pedal speed. After all, this is designed as an eaBike (electric assist Bike).

Also, with a controller, throttle or partial pack failure etc, I can "contact" 11-22-33V to the external brush motor, and power back to the shop. Alligator clip jumper wires could be easily configured into an "emergency" on-off switch.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Nov 24, 2011 8:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by dogman dan » Nov 23, 2011 7:20 am

:D The rest of us have simply given up shifting. Put it in 48-14 and leave it there forever, or till you break down.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Nov 23, 2011 7:45 am

I got my first ebike because, I desperately needed the exercise but couldn't pedal too much.
Although my health has improved, I can't risk giving up my exercise.
Except for testing, I do, pedal constantly.

And I do need lower gears to beat the cars, when the light turns green.
Even with, one of my "legal" 20 mph bikes, it takes cars 1/2 a block to catch back up to me.

Haro will be ideal for rural cruising. Initial pack is only 44.4V 21.6Ah but twin "sister" pack has cells allocated. 100 mile range, motor only, anticipated, from 2kWh pack ... if I limit to 20 mph.
20mph should task the motor at about 50% rpm, putting it into the good torque-efficiency groove.
30mph hits about 75% rpm, still nicely in that groove.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 07, 2012 1:25 pm

Finally had a chance to take a pic, of the EZip compatible hub, that I am lacing into the 700C wheel, for my Haro conversion.
EZipQR.JPG
EZipQR.JPG (63.27 KiB) Viewed 3225 times
The source dried up ... sorry!
The only compatible, that I know of are from Staton-inc.com, ~$89.
Good news is that they are top quality.
4 sealed ball bearings.
Available for 14 or 12ga spokes.

Oh ... and they have, also, 1/2 x 3/16" ACS Southpaw freewheels for larger chain-motor!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Jan 07, 2012 4:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by SamTexas » Jan 07, 2012 2:58 pm

Ok I HAVE to ask: You are going to use an EZip brushed, side mounted and chain driven motor. Is it because you have one available or because that motor/setup is your preference over a brushless hub or a mid mount motor, regardless of cost?

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 07, 2012 3:39 pm

SamTexas wrote:Ok I HAVE to ask: You are going to use an EZip brushed, side mounted and chain driven motor. Is it because you have one available or because that motor/setup is your preference over a brushless hub or a mid mount motor, regardless of cost?
I have a wonderful 24 speed Haro, about 32lb, and geared 48-11T. 35mph+ pedal capable.
Got a QR hub that will let me "drop in" an electric assist motor. (Hub & motor - cost me about $50)
Add 8spd 34-11T freewheel sprocket, to all the other parts, I have laying around, and configuration is nearly identical.
Will have 44.4V - 1 or 2kWh pack integrated with controller, mounted near steering column, quick mount thumb throttle.
Should feel just like the bike I love, with assist to near 40mph.
Above 30 mph the wind in my ears should drown out motor sound.

If I don't like it, about 2 minutes to swap back to original.

Can't lose ... and I get to play ...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 08, 2012 12:26 am

SamTexas wrote:Ok I HAVE to ask: You are going to use an EZip brushed, side mounted and chain driven motor. Is it because you have one available or because that motor/setup is your preference over a brushless hub or a mid mount motor, regardless of cost?
Sorry, I didn't actually answer your question.
I would have loved to go a front hub. But don't want to give up the nice suspension fork with alloy dropouts.
Would hate to lose the wide range 8 speed rear sprocket, need the 11T to pedal assist past 35 mph.
Only option, without major work, seemed to be the external geared motor.

Lucky me, had all the parts, just laying around.
Also, I never heard of anyone building a Quick Release, rear wheel-motor eBike "kit".
Or even converting an EZip into a 700C wheel.
Thought I'd give it a try. More fun playing in, "fresh dirt."
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by SamTexas » Jan 08, 2012 2:58 am

OK. Yeah, I was kind of confused by your first response.

One of my ebike has a 52T chainring and an 11-3?T freewheel. Even using the 52/11 combo, I find if futile to pedal assist above 30mph. Sure I added some power, but no more than 5%. Now I simply let the motor do all the work at speed above 30.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 08, 2012 9:44 am

SamTexas wrote:OK. Yeah, I was kind of confused by your first response.

One of my ebike has a 52T chainring and an 11-3?T freewheel. Even using the 52/11 combo, I find if futile to pedal assist above 30mph. Sure I added some power, but no more than 5%. Now I simply let the motor do all the work at speed above 30.
Don't underestimate your contribution! At near top sustainable speed, motor is peaked, lowering amps, markedly, by any speed increase. Your 5% (speed increase?) might cut your Amps-Watt usage in half.
Try it on a varied slope, to emphasize the effect. (Watt, or amp meter, required.)
1/2 the amps used = 2x the range!

When riding my EZip 16T mod w/37V, motor alone, supplies 27 mph.
I would daily hit 30+ mph for a 5 block stretch of reasonably clear 4 lane, 15 sec. red light lets me enter and keep ahead of 30+ mph traffic, no (decent) alternate route.
More fun is a mile+ stretch of "bypass", 35 mph limit, I just wait "patiently" till I encounter the appropriate truck, or minivan, follow them onto the "bypass", and PA-draft along at, "towards 35mph".
Speedo reports slightly less, but I never recalibrated after I went from 1.95 to 2.125 tires.

Once again, I view the EZips as eaBikes, not eBikes. (electric assist Blikes not as electric Blikes)
No, I am not against eBikes, progressing nicely on my eMotorcycle, and will probably convert a Black Widow (Wally World $139) to a mid drive, full suspension, F/R disc brake, 7spd, sub-eMotorcycle, removing the cranks ... after I find a decent location for foot pegs (Yes ... using an EZip motor ... maybe 2?).
Last edited by DrkAngel on Dec 17, 2014 7:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by SamTexas » Jan 08, 2012 10:28 am

DrkAngel wrote: Don't underestimate your contribution! At near top sustainable speed, motor is peaked, lowering amps, markedly, by any speed increase. Your 5% (speed increase?) might cut your Amps-Watt usage in half.
May be for Lance Armstrong, but that will never apply to me.

Here's a typical case where my contribution is almost meaningless:
Level ground. I set cruise control at 30mph while still pedaling. Power consumption is around 700W. I stop pedaling, speed drops to 29mph, power increases to around 800W. Start pedaling again, speed goes back to 30mph and power backs down to 700W.

Here's another typical case where my contribution is significant:
Level ground. Set cruise control at 17mph while still pedaling. Power consumption is around 130W. Stop pedaling, speed drops to 15mph, power increases to around 230W. Start pedaling again, speed goes back to 17mph and power backs down to 130W.
DrkAngel wrote: More fun is a mile+ stretch of "bypass", 35 mph limit, I just wait "patiently" till I encounter the appropriate truck, or minivan, follow them onto the "bypass", and PA-draft along at, "towards 35mph".
You are many times braver than me. I don't draft.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Jan 08, 2012 11:19 am

SamTexas wrote: May be for Lance Armstrong, but that will never apply to me.

Here's a typical case where my contribution is almost meaningless:
Level ground. I set cruise control at 30mph while still pedaling. Power consumption is around 700W. I stop pedaling, speed drops to 29mph, power increases to around 800W. Start pedaling again, speed goes back to 30mph and power backs down to 700W.
14% reduction in Watts used and 3% increase in speed = 17% contribution-Dr K

Here's another typical case where my contribution is significant:
Level ground. Set cruise control at 17mph while still pedaling. Power consumption is around 130W. Stop pedaling, speed drops to 15mph, power increases to around 230W. Start pedaling again, speed goes back to 17mph and power backs down to 130W.
43% reduction in Watts used and 13% increase in speed = 56% contribution - more than doubles your range!-Dr K
Yeah ... I put a little more "assist" into it. Oftimes while cruising at 20mph, I'll cut power and maintain 20mph for brief, maybe 1 mile, stretches, pausing to "recover", then repeating, gauging my fitness progression.

On a heavy EZip with big balloon tires.
(300++ Watt contribution?)
Think my Haro might be a bit more appreciative ...
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by AARONHAI1 » Mar 12, 2012 8:04 am


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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by AARONHAI1 » Mar 12, 2012 8:05 am

AARONHAI1 wrote:https://plus.google.com/photos/10119196 ... 9187938785

36V 500W 15AH KIT HARO F-1
BABY LASTED A WHOLE TWO DAYS...TIL IT GOT STOLEN, I ALREADY ORDERED A NEW MOTOR - THIS TIME WITH A MOUNTED ON DISC... MY IDEA IS TO HANG MY 5 KILO 15AH LIFEPOV4 PING BATTERY UNDER THE LAID BACK SEAT POST... I'LL BE SURE TO POST IT ONCE SHE'S READY :!:
Last edited by AARONHAI1 on Mar 12, 2012 8:29 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by AARONHAI1 » Mar 12, 2012 8:12 am

HERE SHE IS...
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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by AARONHAI1 » Mar 12, 2012 8:28 am

www.czbrushlessmotors.com just ordered a new kit from: www.czbrushlessmotors.com

i'll let u's know how she looks soon... this is a photo of my stolen bike:
36v 500W E-bike
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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 20, 2012 11:11 am

Finally getting my Haro motorized!
Wheel built!
Last edited by DrkAngel on Sep 20, 2012 3:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by AARONHAI1 » Sep 20, 2012 11:23 am

here's my new one :)
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700C eZip Mod

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 20, 2012 3:07 pm

Decided to lace a 700C rim onto an eZip compatible hub.
I went with 35mm 85 PSI tires - streets are too rough for 25mm - IMO.
700C.JPG
700C.JPG (81.77 KiB) Viewed 3071 times
Just for fun ... I used a QR axle!
A bit of an effort , so I went with better quality components.
Double wall alloy wheel with SS eyelets.
WheelSmith SS spokes.
700C eZipped.JPG
700C eZipped.JPG (51.6 KiB) Viewed 3071 times
Yes! ... That is an 8 speed freewheel.
11-34T!
I intend on a precision alignment.
I want to be able to swap motored for non-motored wheel with no need for derailleur, or brake, adjustment.
Last edited by DrkAngel on Feb 22, 2013 9:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by etriker » Sep 22, 2012 9:51 am

I am making one too with a Trek sole ride.

Used this hub.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190635049713?ss ... 1497.l2649

This motor.

https://www.curriestore.com/product/IZIP-Motor/460/

Used a 5 speed freewheel so wheel does not need to be so dished.

That motor is quiet.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Sep 22, 2012 10:48 am

Thanks!
Nice find on the LR threaded hub. - $27.64
Quality?
Click on Picture
Image

Better Price on 450w motors
Oops! Might be the louder version.

XYD-16 = quiet - "C" LOGO
MY1018 = loud - "Triangle" Logo

24V 450w - $85
Click on Picture
Image

36V 450w - $85
Click on Picture
Image
Attachments
LR Hub.JPG
LR Hub.JPG (9.66 KiB) Viewed 3012 times
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A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

EBike Toolbox - Bargains! $

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by etriker » Sep 22, 2012 1:19 pm

The people at Currie were so nice to me after my trike wreck.

Now have several quiet motors to play with ! :)

The hub looks ok. Will let you know how it works out.

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Re: Haro Express Deluxe Build

Post by DrkAngel » Oct 10, 2014 6:14 am

I am plagued by circulation problems.
Left side noticeably worse,.
So I decided to embark on a cardiovascular regime.

Put my Haro on the path and determine to pedal 10 miles per day.
I begin my morning with a tonic of chicken bouillon w/cayenne pepper and garlic powder, to kick start my warm up. And clear my sinuses!
A few minutes of stretching and mild calisthenics then hop on the Haro and maintain 15mph+ for the entire 10 miles path loop.
30's and 40's in the mornings lately so I don't feel the warm up till I stop, then I feel the warmth and increased blood flow to all major body parts, including my brain. Nice to start the day ... being awake ...

Yes, I could pedal my eBike, but I have grown too lazy and the throttle keeps creeping into play.

Of course I still use my eBikes! And plan on my motor quick swap for the Haro.
A little learning is a dangerous thing;
Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
There, shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
And drinking largely, sobers us again.

I enjoy enlightening ... and enlivening the spirit of the innovators.

New & Improved - Acronym Definitions

Index - Homemade Battery Packs - Updated - November 2015

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