I was the first person in my area to have a e bike conversion. I did a conversion for myself just to have a second vehicle and everyone started wanting one. I have done a few conversions for friends now as well as building a few lipo packs. Now I am getting even more people wanting me to do conversions as they are asking who did these for my friends. To me it is not that difficult to do the conversions' nor to build the lipo batteries and do good quality work that is safe but others seem to be afraid to try and are coming to me. My question is how much should I charge to do a conversion and also to just do lipo packs. I want to be fair but I cannot keep doing these for free. I would let people get the parts for the conversions or packs and have me just do a labor charge. Any help would be appreciated on how much to charge for just labor on these..
How Much To Charge For E Bike Connversions
- Thread starter itsme5150
- Start date
Jason27
10 kW
You should charge whatever the parts cost, then like $40-50 for labor.
cruzin
100 mW
Materials plus labor. Labor equals whatever you want to charge.
A standard mechanic labor fee can range from 75 to 200 an hour.
For building e-bikes, i would go with a low hourly rate until you have a system set. Then you should have a good grasp on inventory, and can bill out accordingly. Remember that the only profit will be in the labor, so the faster you work, the more you make.
Good luck.
A standard mechanic labor fee can range from 75 to 200 an hour.
For building e-bikes, i would go with a low hourly rate until you have a system set. Then you should have a good grasp on inventory, and can bill out accordingly. Remember that the only profit will be in the labor, so the faster you work, the more you make.
Good luck.
dnmun
1 PW
charge $200/hour and see how fast those guys learn to do stuff for themselves and not rely on you to be their mammy.
if they don't know something they should be learning it instead of drinking themselves into mental defect.
if they don't know something they should be learning it instead of drinking themselves into mental defect.
Ykick
1 GW
I have the luxury of being able to do conversions sans any real profit or labor rates. My “profit” is maybe quantity ordering and perhaps saved shipping costs. Prime motivation is that I like to try different stuff, stock up a few specialty tools/crimpers thus any “sales” helps keep my costs down.
But I deal almost exclusively with coworkers who happen to be very technical people who well understand what’s going on and need little, if any, after-the-fact hand-holding. I also “ride what I sell” so we easily trade around bikes, battery packs, controllers, chargers and better troubleshoot any weirdness - everybody benefits from the variety and being able to try various things, different types and styles of eBikes. Plus, if/when anything needs repair, I can easily provide a loaner - nobody’s down for very long and we all seem to enjoy the beta aspect of these useful contraptions.
Somewhat surprisingly, other than accident broken throttle, weird mini-motor clutch and simply worn-out battery, any needed repairs have been bicycle components - NOT many electric-bicycle components across 10-12 eBikes to date. We all ride tons of miles/trips though - plenty worn brakes, tires, tubes, etc.
But I deal almost exclusively with coworkers who happen to be very technical people who well understand what’s going on and need little, if any, after-the-fact hand-holding. I also “ride what I sell” so we easily trade around bikes, battery packs, controllers, chargers and better troubleshoot any weirdness - everybody benefits from the variety and being able to try various things, different types and styles of eBikes. Plus, if/when anything needs repair, I can easily provide a loaner - nobody’s down for very long and we all seem to enjoy the beta aspect of these useful contraptions.
Somewhat surprisingly, other than accident broken throttle, weird mini-motor clutch and simply worn-out battery, any needed repairs have been bicycle components - NOT many electric-bicycle components across 10-12 eBikes to date. We all ride tons of miles/trips though - plenty worn brakes, tires, tubes, etc.
I usually charge 100 $ to install a kit on someone's bike, at this rate i cut excess wire, water proof stuff, check the bike over ( brakes, shifters, lube everything.. ) .. if it involves very custom work like fabbing brackets and battery mounting more refined stuff.. it adds.
I HIGHLY recommend you stop selling lipo packs to the general public ... i have done this a few times and regretted every single one of them.... i no longer do.
Lipo is good for my own rigs and experiments, or very high-power bikes that only a select group of close friends are allowed to ride .. otherwise it's a " Do It Yourself " kinda thing and i take no responsibility for their mistakes.
I HIGHLY recommend you stop selling lipo packs to the general public ... i have done this a few times and regretted every single one of them.... i no longer do.
Lipo is good for my own rigs and experiments, or very high-power bikes that only a select group of close friends are allowed to ride .. otherwise it's a " Do It Yourself " kinda thing and i take no responsibility for their mistakes.
The fingers
10 TW
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OTzLVIc-O5E
Charge $100.00 an hour if they supply the parts, after all "Parts is parts". :lol:
Jason27 said:
Charge $100.00 an hour if they supply the parts, after all "Parts is parts". :lol:
wesnewell
100 GW
Personally, I'd offer to teach them how to do it for free as long as they did the actual physical work or most of it. If they just want me to do it for them while they watched, maybe $50. If they just want me to do it while they left, $50 an hour.
Drunkskunk
100 GW
I charge based on what my free time is worth. My work would pay me time and a half for use of my free time, so if someone tries to hire me, I charge at least time and a half my usual job's wage.
+1 to what Ypedal said about Lipo.
+1 to what Ypedal said about Lipo.
beast775
100 kW
Every bike is different so its hard to get a base price.
That's why i set it at 100$ ... most good easy conversions take less than 1 hr... sometimes shit goes sideways and it can take a couple hours.. still worth the 100 $ ... if it takes more than 2 hours it's either a royal mess or you are doing some custom work, depending on the customer and conditions and timelines etc... adjust from there but my basic " What do you charge to do this for me ? " answer.. 100$ :wink:
Sometimes someone will want you to assemble a Frankenstein. They think they "got a good deal" by getting a controller, motor, and battery from three separate vendors. None of the connectors match, and the color-coded wires are all different colors. So...you have to figure out which combination of hall wires will work. I would charge extra if the kit parts are not all from the same vendor (except for the battery)
I'd charge $100 to get the kit together and running, but I would make it clear that no warranty was included or implied. If the customer takes the bike around the block on delivery to prove it runs, he pays and you never see each other again. Make it clear in the beginning, if anything stops working or goes wrong, it's not your problem. If they buy a cheap kit, they get cheap reliability.
No LiPo, ever. It's OK if you have a LiPo pack for yourself, but if it catches fire in your garage, or when you're riding...nobody will sue you. Even if there is no case against you, if you sold it to someone, and their garage burns down...you may have to go to court and spend time and money (even if you win the case). The only thing I would do to a battery pack is that I have often changed the main power connector to an XT90 plug/socket set.
Here's what I would do: show them the kits at em3ev.com, e-bikekit.com, and ebikes.com/Grin tech. All three of these vendors have a reputation for reliability. Have them select a motor/controller/throttle all from only one of those vendors (so everything has matching plugs and color-coded wires), Then have them select which battery they want. If the power plug doesn't match the kit they chose (typically Andersons/45A) then it is easy to take a 100W soldering iron/XT90 plug-set/6mm heat-shrink to get the battery/controller to mate.
Have them pay for the parts and be delivered to them. When everything arrives, go over there with your soldering kit and tools, assemble and get it running. Once they ride around the block, they pay you $100 with the understanding that any future trouble-shooting and repair will be $25/hr plus the cost of parts (which is what will get most of them to buy their own multi-meter/soldering iron/etc).
_________________________
I absolutely HATE customers. Nine times out of ten they are decent people who just want a product or service in exchange for the listed price. Its just that...the tenth guy?...I just want to smash his face into the concrete. Which (as I understand it), is still illegal here in Kansas.
If I was building turn-key bikes. My main model would be a CA-520 steel cruiser frame ($300), MAC 10T rear hub using 50V X 25A = 1,200W (28-MPH), 12-FET controller using 3077's, ($430 + shipping), and their small triangle battery using Panasonic 29E's (50V / 16.5-Ah, $700 + shipping)
Options would be Thudbuster seat-post, Cycle Analyst, cup holder, front disc brake using an Avid BB7 (stock would be Salmon Kool-stop pads). Total without options would be $1450-ish, but I would have to sell them for $1,950...to make it worth me smiling at them when they complain. And that's with no warranty on the battery.
I'd charge $100 to get the kit together and running, but I would make it clear that no warranty was included or implied. If the customer takes the bike around the block on delivery to prove it runs, he pays and you never see each other again. Make it clear in the beginning, if anything stops working or goes wrong, it's not your problem. If they buy a cheap kit, they get cheap reliability.
No LiPo, ever. It's OK if you have a LiPo pack for yourself, but if it catches fire in your garage, or when you're riding...nobody will sue you. Even if there is no case against you, if you sold it to someone, and their garage burns down...you may have to go to court and spend time and money (even if you win the case). The only thing I would do to a battery pack is that I have often changed the main power connector to an XT90 plug/socket set.
Here's what I would do: show them the kits at em3ev.com, e-bikekit.com, and ebikes.com/Grin tech. All three of these vendors have a reputation for reliability. Have them select a motor/controller/throttle all from only one of those vendors (so everything has matching plugs and color-coded wires), Then have them select which battery they want. If the power plug doesn't match the kit they chose (typically Andersons/45A) then it is easy to take a 100W soldering iron/XT90 plug-set/6mm heat-shrink to get the battery/controller to mate.
Have them pay for the parts and be delivered to them. When everything arrives, go over there with your soldering kit and tools, assemble and get it running. Once they ride around the block, they pay you $100 with the understanding that any future trouble-shooting and repair will be $25/hr plus the cost of parts (which is what will get most of them to buy their own multi-meter/soldering iron/etc).
_________________________
I absolutely HATE customers. Nine times out of ten they are decent people who just want a product or service in exchange for the listed price. Its just that...the tenth guy?...I just want to smash his face into the concrete. Which (as I understand it), is still illegal here in Kansas.
If I was building turn-key bikes. My main model would be a CA-520 steel cruiser frame ($300), MAC 10T rear hub using 50V X 25A = 1,200W (28-MPH), 12-FET controller using 3077's, ($430 + shipping), and their small triangle battery using Panasonic 29E's (50V / 16.5-Ah, $700 + shipping)
Options would be Thudbuster seat-post, Cycle Analyst, cup holder, front disc brake using an Avid BB7 (stock would be Salmon Kool-stop pads). Total without options would be $1450-ish, but I would have to sell them for $1,950...to make it worth me smiling at them when they complain. And that's with no warranty on the battery.
I never charge anything except the cost for the parts because when you charge for installing their kit, if anything goes wrong, you might be liable, which includes if they have an accident. You might all be friends when you do the conversion, but after an accident, people can change.
mateusleo
1 kW
I would avoid using LiPo and go for 18650 instead, there are plenty of pre built BMS and chargers, which is safer than lipo.
The fingers
10 TW
Easy, have them sign a waiver. :wink:d8veh said:
USAEBIKECO
10 kW
spinningmagnets said:
I totally agree with that statement. 9/10 customers are great, but that 10th guy is just insane. Lol
Ch00paKabrA
10 kW
The only way to determine the amount you should charge is to let the Market decide.
I know it is easy to throw around a specific number like $100.00 but the best way is to let the market decide. You start out with a low hourly rate and then increase it continually until you start to lose customers. This is how you know you have passed the sweet spot. You then bring it down a bit to get to the amount where you are charging the absolute most that the people in your area are willing to pay. If you live where there are a lot of millionaires in the area you may get away with charging $100.00 and hour whereas if you live in an area where everyone is broke, that number might be closer to $10.00 an hour.
I have to agree with many of the folks that have cautioned against liability. Even a waiver won't help you. I would just write a book or pamphlet with a disclaimer that the information inside is for entertainment purposes only. Sell it to potential customers and maybe just charge to assist the customer in getting it together.
Even if you have a disclaimer, someone can still sue you. They might not win but you might go broke paying legal fees. If you are going to charge anything, then register an LLC and do everything through it. This way, your house, cars, ebike, bank accounts and other personal assets are sort of protected.
I have a landscaping business and 5 rental properties now. I have 6 separate LLCs. Nothing is tied together so if one gets sued, the assets of the others are safe. Legal zoom is your friend and it's cheap.
I know it is easy to throw around a specific number like $100.00 but the best way is to let the market decide. You start out with a low hourly rate and then increase it continually until you start to lose customers. This is how you know you have passed the sweet spot. You then bring it down a bit to get to the amount where you are charging the absolute most that the people in your area are willing to pay. If you live where there are a lot of millionaires in the area you may get away with charging $100.00 and hour whereas if you live in an area where everyone is broke, that number might be closer to $10.00 an hour.
I have to agree with many of the folks that have cautioned against liability. Even a waiver won't help you. I would just write a book or pamphlet with a disclaimer that the information inside is for entertainment purposes only. Sell it to potential customers and maybe just charge to assist the customer in getting it together.
Even if you have a disclaimer, someone can still sue you. They might not win but you might go broke paying legal fees. If you are going to charge anything, then register an LLC and do everything through it. This way, your house, cars, ebike, bank accounts and other personal assets are sort of protected.
I have a landscaping business and 5 rental properties now. I have 6 separate LLCs. Nothing is tied together so if one gets sued, the assets of the others are safe. Legal zoom is your friend and it's cheap.
dnmun
1 PW
battery fires are not the result of lipo exploding.
they result from shorts that overheat a wire to the point that it catches some plastic part or battery bag on fire.
so you can still lose everything if you do nothing more than connect the battery to the controller for them.
you will be sued so have insurance.
i just saw a news report on local tv where some guy had the battery replaced in his ATV by a local ATV shop. he had two of them in his toy trailer, both new models, and the entire thing burned up totally. $56k loss. guess who they will sue.
they result from shorts that overheat a wire to the point that it catches some plastic part or battery bag on fire.
so you can still lose everything if you do nothing more than connect the battery to the controller for them.
you will be sued so have insurance.
i just saw a news report on local tv where some guy had the battery replaced in his ATV by a local ATV shop. he had two of them in his toy trailer, both new models, and the entire thing burned up totally. $56k loss. guess who they will sue.
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