Garbage heap S180

[Bbbbrass]

So I've built 2 e-bikes before (about to do a 3rd), and am now working on my first scooter! It will probably be used around my work neighborhood for fun, since I don't have more room at home to store stuff. Conversely, it's small enough when folded to fit in a car trunk so maybe I use it for getting around after driving into town. Has a basket (neat!), grip throttle, seat, and charger. I will probably put the charger in the parts bin immediately.

Supposedly it was working when put on the curb. The old batteries were completely dead, tires totally flat, rear hub kickstand bolt totally loose. I've got plenty of 24V lithium packs/BMS to build for this guy. The controller doesn't have a model number on the outside but looks to be able to put out 22A peak according to the materials, however the motor claims to be 8A (Currie XYD-6, 180W). I'm wondering if these controller can put out more power if I put a different motor on that can take more amps. Also hoping I can at least run a 7S pack and the controller won't mind being at 30V. Anyone play around with these before and crank up voltage on them? I've never really played with brushed motors, outside of replacing the brushes on an old electric lawnmower.

 

[Bbbbrass]

I've opened up the controller. Holy cow this thing is super cheap. Plastic case, flimsy, barely any heatsink, and only 1 Mosfet. The "YL-N36" I think is some kind of electromagnetic contactor, based on google results. Never encountered that before, so perhaps it's brushed motor specific? I'm hoping it doesn't give up the magic smoke at 36V!
Capacitors seem good up to 50V, so that's nice. Google not turning up anything more specific, but I think it's a Currie 250W controller good up to 20Amps.

 

[amberwolf]

The controller doesn't have a model number on the outside but looks to be able to put out 22A peak according to the materials, however the motor claims to be 8A (Currie XYD-6, 180W). I'm wondering if these controller can put out more power if I put a different motor on that can take more amps.

This stuff works the reverse of that: the load on the motor determines the current it pulls, depending on the voltage placed across it and the capability of the battery and controller to supply the load.

Even a 180w motor could draw (for a couple of seconds or so ) thousands of watts if you put it under the conditions to do that.

So if it really is a 22A controller, it would probably smoke the 180w motor if you put enough of a load on it.

You can see how this works on the simulator at ebikes.ca.

Plastic case, flimsy, barely any heatsink, and only 1 Mosfet. The "YL-N36" I think is some kind of electromagnetic contactor, based on google results. Never encountered that before, so perhaps it's brushed motor specific?

I see two FETs (or some TO220 devices on the heatsink), and some other TO220 device that is probably a voltage regulator. You can look up the p/ns on them if you really want to know.

The relay (if that's what it is) is probably the ebrake control, connecting only when the brake is not pulled or the charger is not connected, or LVC not reached. Common on tiny scooters like these. Some actually only use relays and dont' ahve controllers at all--the throttle is just a switch to turn the motor on or off via the relay!

It'll click audibly if it is a relay, whenever the controller is enabled or disabled.

Capacitors seem good up to 50V, so that's nice. Google not turning up anything more specific,

For "real" controllers, the things to consider for "overvolting" are the LVPS (that makes 5v/etc from the battery voltage), the caps on the battery bus, the FETs, and any relays (whcih may operate their coils off the battery voltage; too high a voltage can cause current flow that will damage their coils or the switching transistors used to turn them on and off).

The brushed motor itself has a limit in that it's commutator will literally fly apart (grenade) if it spins above some RPM limit (not generally published for these cheap things, but that is probably several times what it spins at in this application.

but I think it's a Currie 250W controller good up to 20Amps.

If it's a 250w controller for 24v system, that's only about a 10A current limit. If it's got a 20A current limit, it's not a 250w controller.

 

[Bbbbrass]

If it's a 250w controller for 24v system, that's only about a 10A current limit. If it's got a 20A current limit, it's not a 250w controller.

You know, it’s almost like it’s been a long day and I totally forgot basic math…
Yeah, I do see those mosfets behind the “heat sink.” The IC I can’t trick into getting a legible part number from yet, and I doubt I will care enough to really tear this thing apart. Tomorrow I will hit this with a 10S Ryobi pack and see what happens. I’m figuring out if I can only do 7S3P 21700 in the battery compartment, or if I can fit 4P in somehow (of 18650, 20700, or 21700).

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

I have a great deal of experience with these scooters. There is a 20A/40A max draw on the controller. The motor and controller are the same as on the Schwinn S350. 40v or 50V capacitors, but 42.6v will work with both.

I used to use two parallel hoverboard batteries for my kids' scooters (36v 8.8ah). The hoverboard battery's advantage is that its plug and play and be charged using the original charging port.

 

[Bbbbrass]

thanks for the notes!
I tried it with a 36V hoverboard battery and got nothing. I’ll hit it with 24V today just to make sure nothing is wrong with it. Still trying to get this blasted rear tube replaced!

 

[Bbbbrass]

Finally got the new tube in the rear tire, and everything mounted again. Hopefully I got it all in correctly, since I didn’t take notes when I disassembled and I worked on it in 3 different places

Hooked it up to a power supply, and it worked up to 39V! This is great because I have several unused 10S bms, as well as a ton of 40V Ryobi batteries with no use except for this.

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

Currie controllers are great. I think the switch and harness could be required for testing by the controller.

 

[Bbbbrass]

Currie controllers are great. I think the switch and harness could be required for testing by the controller.

Thanks for the help! Finally got the battery done today, and did a 30 second test drive. I still need to finish adjusting the brake…
Just did a quick 10S3P 18650 pack using recycled Highstar cells and a left over JBD dumb 40A BMS. I kept getting interrupted while spot welding and soldering the balance leads, so no good construction photos. I’m counting on you being right about 42V not frying this thing!

 

[Bbbbrass]

Man, 10mph max? According to my calculations it should have been able to do 15 stock!

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

At 36v it should to be at least 12-15 mph. Make sure that the chain and axle nut are not overly tight.

If it didn't help, I can give you sweet deal on parts since I have a respectable stock of these Currie-Tech parts. From handlebars, decks & kicktails, 500-750w controllers, 24/36v throttles, harnesses, seat post, all the way down to the bolts & nut sack. DM for more info

 

[Bbbbrass]

At 36v it should to be at least 12-15 mph. Make sure that the chain and axle nut are not overly tight.

If it didn't help, I can give you sweet deal on parts since I have a respectable stock of these Currie-Tech parts. From handlebars, decks & kicktails, 500-750w controllers, 24/36v throttles, harnesses, seat post, all the way down to the bolts & nut sack. DM for more info

Good thinking! I was concerned the chain wasn't tight enough, but I feel like the freewheel has some drag.

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

Don't forget to lean the freewheel on the motor sprocket. Its probably filled with dirt and gunk. Its about $25 for the "15 Tooth Freewheeling Sprocket for #25 Chain". Item # SPR-2515F

Electric Scooter and Bicycle Specialty Sprockets - ElectricScooterParts.com

Specialty sprockets for electric scooters and bicycles.

electricscooterparts.com

 

[Bbbbrass]

Don't forget to lean the freewheel on the motor sprocket. Its probably filled with dirt and gunk. Its about $25 for the "15 Tooth Freewheeling Sprocket for #25 Chain". Item # SPR-2515F

Electric Scooter and Bicycle Specialty Sprockets - ElectricScooterParts.com

Specialty sprockets for electric scooters and bicycles.

electricscooterparts.com

It was quite dirty. I cleaned the whole chain, but didn’t remove the sprocket. I’ll try that, because I’ve got to tear this thing apart. My 6Ah 36V battery only got my 3 miles tonight. Motor kept pulling power, and then cutting out. I’m guessing overheating considering how hot the outside was. Going to try a 24V pack, and also want to looking cooling. Drilling holes, thermal paste and cpu heat sinks, active fans…. Anyone with experience I’d love your thoughts on cooking these Currie motors!

 

[2Phast2Delirious]

Overvolting these controllers typically results in cutting off; to restart it, simply turn it on and off. I've been at this for a long time, lol. If you wish to maintain everything original, you can get a Schwinn Stealth 36v 1000w controller. Before I discovered a high-quality 3-speed controller, I clung to these controllers for a very long time.

These motors' rare earth magnets allow them to withstand a great deal of abuse and they're rated @ 24v-48v.

 

[Bbbbrass]

A small update:

My top speed (36v battery, original controller and motor, clean chain and pumped up tires) is 12mph on the flat. I’m 6’2”, 230 so that seems fine. I will try the larger controller next. The motor seems to cut back after an extended run, I’m assuming heat but wondering if it’s the controller?

I also added a cheap Amazon voltmeter gauge. I only care about the resting voltage, but it actually seems to indicate SOC pretty accurately.

 

[Bbbbrass]

I suppose I should have updated this. I put in an Amazon cheapy 36V "800W" controller. It is, fine. The top speed is now around 16MPH, and range is around 3-4 miles. The motor will overheat if I ride it hard, but it's great for my son.