That looks like a Sabvoton SVMC7280,V2, or a clone. I’m using a $70 MLC7280 clone for power, and a Cycle Analyst to control the output. That level of power (80A, 200A phase) is perfect, but I’m not constantly on the throttle, so monitor my temps when I am. The “MLC” is smaller, and mostly heat sink, so easier to find a mounting spot for..any thoughts on this controller from leaf? Apart from the price(can prob get a discount as a package). 24FET, programmable 3000w-5000w. 1.75kg seems heavy. (Nucular 6F supposedly 3 months away is 10,000w-12,000w). Maybe the Spintend VESC is the only other real option now but it sounds like it could be (too) complicated with programming etc.
2000W ~ 5000W programmable controller
Convert your vehicle to electric vehicle with leaf 2000W 5000W 60A 80A programmable controller.www.leafbike.com
Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor
- Thread starter neptronix
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yantra yatra
100 W
Can you share a link please if you have one to the controller?
yantra yatra
100 W
How many amps can the phase wires handle on the leaf motor? Does anyone know?
The Toecutter
100 kW
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35A continuous.
Peak A will depend upon winding. 3T can do like 150A for 10 seconds IIRC, independent of whether or not you increase the wire size coming out the axle(to run 150A you will need to, but the stator itself becomes the limiting factor). 6T can do like 75A. This proportion will generally hold true for any winding, as the possible torque output remains the same independent of winding choice.
My question is this: what is the max voltage you can run a Leafbike 1500W without arcing over? I've considered experimenting with an 11T and running it at 264V just to see what happens, and maybe increase the possible continuous current without melting any of the wires. The heat issue still doesn't go away, however, and the increased circuit length will undoubtedly lower the ampacity of the wiring.
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I put 12 gauge wires an inch out the end of the axle on mine..
No noticeable heat problems pushing 6kw.
Newer models have thicker wire across the entire length.. so you will have better results than me with this partial wiring upgrade.
I was pushing well over 200 phase amps for long periods of time and didn't notice substantial heat in the wiring, even after climbing a 7% grade for a mile at 50mph.
No noticeable heat problems pushing 6kw.
Newer models have thicker wire across the entire length.. so you will have better results than me with this partial wiring upgrade.
I was pushing well over 200 phase amps for long periods of time and didn't notice substantial heat in the wiring, even after climbing a 7% grade for a mile at 50mph.
The Toecutter
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Any idea how long? I've run my 4T for up to 250A for about 5 second accelerations runs at a time(probably closer to 1-2 seconds at a time at 250A because my low pack voltage of 46.8V at the time caused the A and torque to quickly drop). 50 mph was all it had at 46.8V and 4T in a 26" drive wheel. 0-20 was like being shot out of a cannon.
I haven't dared do a full acceleration run with the body off the trike all the way to top speed on 72V of Molicel P42A with the 3T in a 20". Without the body on, this thing is VERY scary to abuse. I don't like the feeling of wind trying to push me up out of the seat at 50+ mph as the trike gets less stable and makes funny creak and groan noises while I have only the seat and trike frame between me and the ground. I bet it will do 70 mph, naked. With the body, I'd have topped it out at 72V no problem, but because I changed the orientation of the seat, I need to make a new shell(less height thus less frontal area, enabled by rear 20" wheel allowing the seat to be reclined more).
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A-DamW
1 kW
Well, if you are just talking about breakdown voltage on enamel insulated magnet wire, it will depend, as always, on as many factors are involved.
For a simple answer, most of the 480 volt 3 phase motors I have seen, don't have anything special about the enamel insulation
or construction of the windings, other than perhaps the class or grade of enamel.
I myself would not be too concerned running any of the bldc motors I have, at 200-400 volts, other than spinning into oblivion.
Some reference:
How can I determine the voltage insulation rating of magnet wire?
yantra yatra
100 W
So do I need to upgrade the phase wire to run 4-5kw (at 52v, so ~80-100a) for a few mins? Or should it work ok out of the box?
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yantra yatra
100 W
Btw, I saw this Samsung 45T battery cell test. If there were good packs available I would buy one
The Toecutter
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Should work out of the box.
When I was running 1500W in the 4T with lots of uphill climbs using a 96A Phaserunner, the wiring was fine, but I did weld the Phaserunner's XT60 connectors together by exceeding their continuous rating for long enough. The motor's wiring showed no signs of damage. I eventually increased that to 3 kW and it was still fine.
In that same 4T motor, I ran 10kW/250A using the BAC4000 without upgrading the wiring, and did melt some of the rubber insulation in places(mostly inside the motor) while doing donuts in a parking lot. I've since repaired it and it's now being run at a very modest 750W/96A in my mountainbike.
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yantra yatra
100 W
I’m going to get the 1500w kit with this 2000w-5000w controller from leaf.
My only remaining questions are whether to go freewheel or casette, I think casette seems to be the right choice, and rather than 4t or 3t, asking if I can get something in between capable of about 72km/h at 52v with a 26” wheel.
Do you get torque arms from Grin? Will also get ferrofluid
www.leafbike.com
My only remaining questions are whether to go freewheel or casette, I think casette seems to be the right choice, and rather than 4t or 3t, asking if I can get something in between capable of about 72km/h at 52v with a 26” wheel.
Do you get torque arms from Grin? Will also get ferrofluid
2000W ~ 5000W programmable controller
Convert your vehicle to electric vehicle with leaf 2000W 5000W 60A 80A programmable controller.
www.leafbike.com
I'd strongly recommend NOT buying their subpar controller.
I don't know if this is the case still but the cassette version of the motor might have a weaker 12mm axle on the cassette side.. check with them.
Do buy a pair of ebikes.ca's torque arms, they are still the best on the market and much cheaper than replacing a frame one day.
I don't know if this is the case still but the cassette version of the motor might have a weaker 12mm axle on the cassette side.. check with them.
Do buy a pair of ebikes.ca's torque arms, they are still the best on the market and much cheaper than replacing a frame one day.
yantra yatra
100 W
Damn, still not sure what to get for a controller. The Spintend VESC seemed a pain to set up for regen (and torque sensing)? I’ll have to contact them pretty quick to back out of the controller, if you can let me know what would be the best option? The Nucular would be great but a ways off
The Toecutter
100 kW
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If you plan to upgrade your controller at some point and hotrod this motor, you'll want a stronger axle available on the pedal-drive side with the freewheel version. If you do so, I recommend stocking up on DNP Epoch 7sp freewheels, since as far as I know, they're the only company still making them and they aren't the best quality. If you want stronger bicycle components, modifiable gearing, easily replaceable gearing, and don't plan on out-gunning cars, get the cassette version. I have both variants, and did briefly run the 1500W 4T cassette version at 10kW/46.8V/250A without axle damage, but I doubt that it would have held up long term. The wiring is what took it out of use until I repaired it later, finding a second life at much more modest settings in my mountainbike.I’m going to get the 1500w kit with this 2000w-5000w controller from leaf.
My only remaining questions are whether to go freewheel or casette, I think casette seems to be the right choice, and rather than 4t or 3t, asking if I can get something in between capable of about 72km/h at 52v with a 26” wheel.
Do you get torque arms from Grin? Will also get ferrofluid
2000W ~ 5000W programmable controller
Convert your vehicle to electric vehicle with leaf 2000W 5000W 60A 80A programmable controller.
I got my left-side torquearm as a custom piece from dhwahl on this forum, specifically made for my make/model of trike, a KMX. It clamps. The right-side torquearm was from Grin. Both work great and the 1500W 3T in a 20" equivalent rear wheel does not shake loose in the dropouts, running 10kW/72V/200A. The mountainbike with the 1500W 4T has Grin torquearms on both sides, and it has remained tight at 0.75kW/46.8V/96A.
There is no half a turn winding. I recommend getting the 3T 1500W if you want 72 km/h on a bicycle with a 26" wheel without aerodynamic aids at 52V. My 4T did roughly the same speed in a home-built velomobile at 46.8V and a 26" drive wheel, but without my aero slipperiness, I'd have easily lost 10+ km/h from the top speed. I had a 46.8V nominal pack, so it was 52V on a full charge which allowed more like 80 km/h, but with the charge depleted and the resting pack voltage to 46.8V, max speed dropped to about 72 km/h.
Another possibility is to buy a 1000W Leafbike as a 4T, since the 1000W version spins 7/6 as fast per Volt as the 1500W version of the same number of turns, but you will lose torque per Amp and efficiency vs the 1500W of the same turn count as the tradeoff.
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yantra yatra
100 W
I ordered the Leaf 24FET programmable controller above, but could cancel… do you think the Spintend is not prohibitively difficult to set up? What would you recommend?
yantra yatra
100 W
Ok, so it sounds like freewheel is better then, I guess good and replaceable gearing components are not that important being a hub drive. 3T seems maybe too fast, not sure what the kv’s are now for each option, or what speed 3T is. but apparently 4T is 65kmh on the flat at 52.1v, so maybe about 72kmh at 58v off the charger…
Leaf has programmable controllers now? interesting.. maybe their controllers are better now.
Non-programmability is what made the previous ones bad. They were fixed to a crappy tune.
Spintend isn't too bad to setup, numerous people can help you set up a VESC here.
Non-programmability is what made the previous ones bad. They were fixed to a crappy tune.
Spintend isn't too bad to setup, numerous people can help you set up a VESC here.
The Toecutter
100 kW
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If acceleration performance is not a major issue, I recommend the Grin Phaserunner. Make sure you get the MT version with connectors that you can use with the Leafbike motor.
It's proven very reliable for me, except for the XT60 connectors fusing. Simplest fix is to program max phase current to 60A and be done with it. I have a lot of hills and 96A was too much for it.
yantra yatra
100 W
I negotiated a significantly better deal as a package, so if programmability was the only concern with it (it is programmable) and it comes out cheaper than Spintend (and phaserunner), I will prob stick with it. Thanks for the excellent info.
This controller would struggle a lot on a 3-4T.. on that winding, the motor will will happily take 200-300 phase amps, but this controller is limited to 90 phase amps.
The Toecutter
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The Phaserunner got hot to the touch running the 4T a 1500W/96A on the velo. It's fine on the mountainbike at 750W/96A.
The BAC4000 paired with a 3T was the best upgrade I ever did for my trike. I might try 12kW/300A at some point going to it. This in addition to what will be two Grin all-axle 3T up front at 4kW/96A each, on a 20S6P pack of Molicel P42A, should be properly insane for my tastes. I want to troll Hellcats at stoplights. We shall see.
Appears to be a clone of the Sabvoton SVMC7280, but without the Bluetooth option
3000W 4000W 80A snow bike controller
Convert your snow fat bike to ebike with leaf 3000W 4000W 80A electric brushless motor controller.
www.leafbike.com
Back on phase amps, I'm trying to understand under what conditions phase amps can stay high for an extended period of time. Looking at the Grin simulator, the phase amps are directly proportional to torque, and the torque curve descends as speed/rpms go up. So, the load would have to be so great that the motor at full throttle would be spinning near stall speeds (a few mph). At full throttle, the simulator assumes max rated battery current of the controller until the inflection point where all the curves shift, but between 0 rpm and the inflection point, it assumes max battery output. In the example, phase amps near stall is 176A and by 10mph they've dropped to 143A, and drop to 80A by 40mph.
Testing the setup below in the real world, 0-40 mph takes 5.9 seconds or so, but the phase amps drop so quickly that I'm not sure the phase wires have time to warm up. I've never felt them get very warm, but I'm guess if I did repeated full throttle runs, they would.
ebikes.ca
Testing the setup below in the real world, 0-40 mph takes 5.9 seconds or so, but the phase amps drop so quickly that I'm not sure the phase wires have time to warm up. I've never felt them get very warm, but I'm guess if I did repeated full throttle runs, they would.
Motor Simulator - Tools
Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
ebikes.ca
