Ozark Trail FS.2 Slalom.. UTTERLY DISGUSTING

[marvin78]

Rockrider is our budget option.

Yeah our states have their own tax laws, but that's easier to navigate than say, labor law.
Walmart brings those prices down by pressuring labor and the EU is usually not a fan of that.

I think they would flee the first time someone said 'unions'

'Sportketen Decathlon maakt zich indirect schuldig aan uitbuiting Oeigoeren'

Volgens Franse onderzoeksplatformen werkt Decathlon met leveranciers die zich schuldig maken aan kinderarbeid, lage lonen en mensenhandel.

nos.nl

Our EU companies seem to be exploiting child labor in China to come to our 'bottom of the barrel prices'.

And it's still more expensive and with lesser quality components as your new Wallmart bikes.

 

[marvin78]

The ones of most concern are the non-interchangeable ones like suspension pivots, but understand that I've worked on more such bikes than you've probably ever seen even in pictures. They're not worth it. My time and other people's money is wasted on them.

Looks pretty interchangable... doesn't even use bushings it seems

 

[neptronix]

I'm actually surprised there's bearings on that thing.

 

[marvin78]

I was expecting copper bushing tbh.

 

[marvin78]

A decade ago, taking anything from Wallmart onto a trail would be a one way trip to the hospital due to components breaking ( this bike is not intended for jumps or off road use' stickers everywhere ).

Five years ago, Wallmart bikes were still mostly featured through video's like 'Sam's cheap bike challenge, will it survive Whistler' or something.

I know it will take another 20 years before the trikle down effect will reach Challo, eventually even he will have to admit these bikes are getting better and better and might start to become a nice option vs a more expensive second hand 'name brand' in the future.

 

[marvin78]

So there are sized frames, small medium and large. Rear shock has a rather uncommon spacing I been told, but not totally unknown so there are options.

 

[neptronix]

I know it will take another 20 years before the trikle down effect will reach Challo, eventually even he will have to admit these bikes are getting better and better and might start to become a nice option vs a more expensive second hand 'name brand' in the future.

Don't bet on it!

Geometry doesn't look too bad. It looks like a copy of a typical name brand MTB's geometry. I don't like the seat tube angle because it'll have you pedaling on your heels, but maybe that's a personal preference.

 

[marvin78]

69 is pretty normal for older/budget full sus bikes. Doesn't climb as easy ( front lifts easier ) and it's a bit less efficient as a rider but you trade that for more comfort. You can always slide the sadle as far forward as possible, or use a setback seat post to get an effective slacker seatpost angle ( though this will decrease your reach ).

 

[marvin78]

Discounted to 440 I hear now... Jesus you guys are so damn lucky.

 

[Chalo]

I don't like the seat tube angle because it'll have you pedaling on your heels, but maybe that's a personal preference.

After trying lots of variations, my favorite is 68° to 70° parallel, regardless of bike type. I'm pretty much limited to using an old touring bike with a too-long fork to get that, because all the old MTBs that are similarly angled are too small for me. At least that raises the cuckoo low BBs of classic tourers to something that supports long cranks.

 

[maiz]

An alternate good buy is a used bike TBH..

I can.. especially around the winter.. find all kinds of expensive frames from bikes costing thousands of dollars/euros for hundreds of dollars/euros and throw parts on them.

$4000 bike frame for $250
$100 of parts from my local communist bike shop
$250 leafmotor wheel ( hey this was 2014 )
$700 of RC Lipo
$100 controller
$200 etc
= a 60mph ebike that makes corvette owners envious for $1700 total

View attachment 365291

Beats the pants off any prebuilt on the market in every dimension, especially back then.

You can still do this today.. batteries are cheaper but motors are a bit more expensive.

What is that stem?

 

[maiz]

Don't bet on it!

Geometry doesn't look too bad. It looks like a copy of a typical name brand MTB's geometry. I don't like the seat tube angle because it'll have you pedaling on your heels, but maybe that's a personal preference.

View attachment 365388

That can't be right. Looks like they measured without accounting for the seat tube curve

 

[marvin78]

That can't be right. Looks like they measured without accounting for the seat tube curve

Wouldn't be the only mistake in their geometry specs. Rear shock is 100mm, not 120mm but it also seems it was supposed to be 120mm and they went with another rear shock last moment which screwed up some of the geometry specs on their website.

 

[neptronix]

What is that stem?

Dunno, that was 11 years ago. Yeah, bizarrely long! ( but great for putting as much of my weight as possible on the front to get a good weight distribution )

That can't be right. Looks like they measured without accounting for the seat tube curve

Yeah, it doesn't look measured correctly at all, and you've got a super short insertable seat post length.. so hopefully you don't mind taking an angle grinder to your seat post..

This is a design decision companies have been making lately to compress the wheelbase, countering the very slack fork angle..
..at the expense of having you pedal with your heels.. which seems anti-ergonomic.

I have another bike like that here.. abnormally short angle on the seat tube.. seat all the way to the back.. still pedaling mid-foot.. didn't seem right!

 

[maiz]

After trying lots of variations, my favorite is 68° to 70° parallel, regardless of bike type. I'm pretty much limited to using an old touring bike with a too-long fork to get that, because all the old MTBs that are similarly angled are too small for me. At least that raises the cuckoo low BBs of classic tourers to something that supports long cranks.

Would love to see 68° parallel frames become popular.

 

[marvin78]

... wth is a 'parralell' in this sentence? Seattube angle is between it and a horizontal line, I don't know what 'paralell' even means in this reference?

Would love to see 68° parallel frames

68° to 70° parallel

edit: parallel just means 'between it and a line parrallel to the horizon/ground' ...

Bit redundant?

 

[neptronix]

Would love to see 68° parallel frames become popular.

Same.. i tend to push my seat backwards, downsize the rear tire an inch, then put the seat angle a hair forward to ( almost ) achieve just that.

 

[maiz]

... wth is a 'parralell' in this sentence? Seattube angle is between it and a horizontal line, I don't know what 'paralell' even means in this reference?






edit: parallel just means 'between it and a line parrallel to the horizon/ground' ...

Bit redundant?

I meant that the seat tube and headtube are parallel.

 

[marvin78]

I can be so incredibly thickheaded at times

 

[E-HP]

Between Walmart and used, I have always opted for used, but in my area, for 5x the quality, while paying less. Such are the benefits of living across the bay from the birthplace of mountain bikes.
My original ebike conversion, however, was a bike I purchased new as my first mountain bike, but anything after that, for my ebike upgrades or pedal mountain bikes have been purchase off of Craigslist. I have a nice Santa Cruz full suspension and a decent Jamis Dakar XC Pro full suspension that I bought for maybe $250 in total for. The latter was barely ridden without a scratch. I guess it’s like real estate. Location, location, location. Rich folks buying high end bikes to ride up the mountain a few times, then sell them once they start collecting dust.
I got the frame I’m currently using for $80. It’s a really nice frame with old school straight tubes. I was actually speeding all the way to pick that one up before someone snagged it. The guy had a bike repair business and was selling off parts he’d acquired to make room in his shop.

 

[marvin78]

I drove an XTC 3 for years.. for a pancake flat country, we have a decent second hand suspension bike market. These bikes all have serious gremlins though...

If you want to avoid some of those gremlins, you're spending 300% ... ( that nrs is in MINT condition ).... beginning to notice something?



Yeah, Giant is 'big' here... want something more 'exclusive'? You're paying premium.




That VINTAGE Specialized is surrounded by other adds of old 26er full sus bikes....

What, you want something more modern??

..wait, also 26ér... though more traditional frame/suspension design.

I have to keep scrolling till I'm in the 1k range to even find a 27.5 ... 1.2k for 229'ers... but then they skip alu and suddenly everything is carbon...

Now drop the rear suspension as search input, and things get much better. I guess because most people here realize it's rather silly to claim you 'mountainbike' when the highest elevation trails reach in your area is double digits. You will find frames for free or a tenner ect, complete bikes for 50 bucks ( with gremlins ).

So yeah, this is why I think Wallmart would make a killing over here. Or not, because this also points towards the market not being really big ( or there would be more sellers, driving down prices ).

 

[neptronix]

Saw a video about this recently about budget MTBs:

 

[Chalo]

Setup is the most important component of a bike. Those who can do it well, know better than to own a department store bike.

Those things aren't for riding. That's why they only come in one size (because they don't have to fit you if you don't ride them) and it's why the places that sell them won't service them (because they don't have to work right if you don't ride them).

A BSO has only one job to do, which is to get the first buyer to hand over money for it. That's all they're made for, and if you ride one back to back with a real bike you'll quickly figure out that being ridden isn't their purpose.

 

[neptronix]

These seem to come in 2-3 sizes and have many design traits of more expensive bikes.
Have you ever seen or worked on one?

 

[Chalo]

These seem to come in 2-3 sizes and have many design traits of more expensive bikes.
Have you ever seen or worked on one?

Not knowingly. I've worked on earlier reputation-mending efforts like Ultegra equipped Walmart bikes, and for those I can only say they're more fixable than most, but they don't come in ready to ride condition. They're like Bikesdirect bikes in that they have some reputable parts on them, they need a tuneup on initial assembly, and they show some corner cutting because the retailer has no skin in the service game.

It's very good news if there are multiple sizes. That greatly increases the likelihood of an acceptable fit.