My Battery needs balanced or tricked i think

[RoliRoliRoli]

I have a tiF galop 60v 2800w dual electric motored scooter that I had posted before about upgrading throttle display/instrument panel. I bought a J&P 24-60v that I believe elsewhere is called QS-S4 and for it to work I had to program the Psettings voltage cut off.I had it rated for 50v and it ran fine but it still wasn’t as fast as the factory one I had before and I believe what had happened was it was unlocked before and when I installed the new throttle it factory reset the controller to use the speed limiter as it was when it was sent from the factory.the website advertises for them to go 28mph and to contact customer service after shipping to remove speed limiter (I am second owner) So I have been looking and browsing all over to find the tutorial on how to get it back to how the previous owner had it which was fast! 55mph easily and so I tryed increasing the voltage cutoff with the battery abiut half way discharged. the good thing is that the throttle display is rated for a maximum of 60v so it shouldn’t be so bad hopefully! So mid ride my scooter shut down because I set the cut off to 60v and the scooters voltage was like 54- 55. I had to charge it back up with the charger when I got home and then it went right up and charged like normal.So now it’s dying out of no where now like going up a hill 62 volts a the way down to 5v and it’s happend abiut 3-4 times total. So Im pretty sure I have misbalanced some cells somehow but I don’t have a fancy fly charger so I just left it on the charger for now and am gonna leave it for abiut 48 hrs….what else can I do???

 

[A-DamW]

so I just left it on the charger for now and am gonna leave it for abiut 48 hrs….what else can I do???

Do you have a multimeter?

Can you open the battery to check the individual P-groups?

Does the battery have a BMS you can access to see cell voltages?

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Yea that’s what I’ll do after I let it fully charge and start the trickle charge

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Could it have reset the bms from the display to be. A higher value for my voltage cutoff than normal? And how could I factory reset it?

 

[James340]

Typically a unbalanced pack will not charge to full voltage. It will stop charging because some groups are at full voltage but others are not. So it will not reach full voltage

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

So last night I did the math snd you are correct Every cell must be at full capacity if I’m at 67.3 volts but there is something draining this thing because by the end of the block Im at 63v and then a few minutes later it shuts down at no lower than 61v I think when I set the psettings value for low voltage cutoff than off at 60 it somehow ruined something

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

This is the bms i have and I checked the balance wires and also the cells individually (while still connected to their parallel cels and found that the 2nd row from the last is showing 0.8v and the rest of the packs groups are 4.15 ….so now what’s the safest option for extraction here ….i have one side thats connected to the negative side and the other the positive…also I have cells laying around what do I have to make sure of I know they need to be charged to same Voltage and should have the same amount of mA….heres photos of the row thats no good …

 

[bananu7]

This is the bms i have and I checked the balance wires and also the cells individually (while still connected to their parallel cels and found that the 2nd row from the last is showing 0.8v and the rest of the packs groups are 4.15 ….so now what’s the safest option for extraction here ….i have one side thats connected to the negative side and the other the positive…also I have cells laying around what do I have to make sure of I know they need to be charged to same Voltage and should have the same amount of mA….heres photos of the row thats no good …

They need to be as close to the cells already in the battery as possible. Ideally the same make and model, but considering this is a used battery, it's likely this group will behave differently anyway. It's surprising that the BMS even allowed any output with a group discharged to 0.8V, it should have stopped it completely way earlier than this.

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Soo if I get the exact same batteries and charge them to 4.15 as the other groups are am I going to have more problems in the near future ? Even if I add an active balancing (100 balance smart active balance bms) ?

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

How do I diagnose my bms for faults?

 

[bananu7]

Soo if I get the exact same batteries and charge them to 4.15 as the other groups are am I going to have more problems in the near future ? Even if I add an active balancing (100 balance smart active balance bms) ?

Active balancing might help a bit to keep the pack in sync but it won't fix a fundamentally mismatched group. Very likely that you'll still be getting lower capacity than expected.

How do I diagnose my bms for faults?

If you can connect to it, you should verify all the parameters that it's displaying and whether you can confirm them (e.g. group voltage). If you can't, then you can only observe the effects - does it cut the power when a group is too low, does it balance the groups etc.

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

I can connect a multimeter to the leads by unplugging the harness…it’s not a smart bms no BT or wifi… It has been cutting my scooter off under load because it would charge up to 67.3v and then after a minute or 2 shut down which Im sure was the bms because my LVC for the P-settings for my JP controllers throttle was set to 50v and my dash voltmeter would be at 61-63 usually when it would cut out…so the bms would cut power but in all actuality it probably shouldn’t have even allowed it to power up in the first place being that the cells are 0.8 in that group. I want to cut these cells out right now so they don’t bring down anymore of the pack …where should I start to cut from ? I either cut the negatives or the positives on the opposite side or should I alternate ?

 

[docw009]

You have probes on both sides of that bank and your Fluke reads .8V. Yet the BMS lets you recharge? THat's enough data to say the BMS cannot be trusted either.

For a older battery with unknown cells, I wouldn't replace a bad bank. It suggests that the cells are coming up to the end of their useful life and other cells will go bad. I doubt that a repair shop would do that either. It just means the battery will be coming back in a few months,

Still, if you were determined to try it, one approach to extract the cells is to remove the nickel from both ends. It rolls off if twisted off carefully., On one end, use a sharp knife to cut off the plastic tabs on the cell holder that retain the cells. Then the cell can be pushed out from the other end. Use something blunt that won't puncture the cells when pushed.

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

The battery is all but 2 years old and was getting me hella range up until 2 weeks ago when I fiddled with my p-settings and set my LVC to 60v (the scooter must of been low as it shut down on me immediately and I had to push it home to charge which it then charged right up and after 5 min I changed the LVC back to 50v then and rode around the block and everything was normal and next morning I got 3 blocks and it died and then this repeated every day for bout 5 days until I decided to take this thing down. I think theres maybe 200 cycles on this thing max because I am the second owner . Im going to buy 6 cells and if it lasts a few months then it’s worth it until I can scrounge the materials to build me a pack with 6000ma Cells

 

[fechter]

If a cell group got down to 0.8v, there's a good chance those cells are damaged and not really safe to use. The BMS should not allow discharge when any group gets below around 3v.
Be really careful not to short anything when cutting apart a pack. Use tape over the nickel strips you're not working on.

 

[E-HP]

I can scrounge the materials to build me a pack with 6000ma Cells

You’ll need to wait until someone starts making them.

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

I just see. Some I forget where

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Ok I got all my supplies … Im charging the new cells to 4.1 which is the same as where the pack failed at …the new cells all tested to be at 3.8 EXCEPT 1 cell was 2.76? It is now charging up and is at like 3.4 should I be concerned??? Also Im using what I believe to be .1 nickel strips and am considering doubling them up for stronger continuity…Im going at it right now if anybody wants to standby maybe I can go live on a platform and if someone wants to join me let me know!!! Thx

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Ok I have the spot welder functioning very well now and I have my cells all within .10 of each other …I thought that I had nickel coming but I think the little sample I had that came with my old portable spot welder is .12 nickel plate and I took it and doubled it up and set current to .41 on 1 pulse and gave each cell 2 welds like a 4dice and then folded it up to double over and gave another 4 dye

 

[docw009]

I hope you ordered a spare. I would call that a bad cell at 2,8V. Should never happen. You can run it thru your cell tester to get its capacity to see if it's impaired, Won't tell you if it's a leaker though, I wouldn't use it.

 

[RoliRoliRoli]

Nah Im not using it -and I did order just one spare whew Im abiut to finish these welds but I wanted someone to shadow me would u be willing?