I'm just gonna jump in before it gets too hot in here with personal insults and pissing contests. Let's pump the brakes a bit and try to keep it on topic.
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police e-bike crackdown
- Thread starter raylo32
- Start date
offGridDownUnder
Power poster
This is an ebike forum mainly, and this is a thread about ebikes.
A solution to the conflicts that are causing the crackdowns that this thread is about.
It's not hard to make that connection - you only need to read the title of the thread.
The conflicts are occurring because many people are not well-informed about ebikes, and heavy-handed 'solutions' are being imposed from alarm, ignorance, and responses to actual harm.
Some people here are proposing 'solutions' that involve dismissing the concerns of the people they are living with - their fellow citizens. These fellow citizens are already angry about actual maiming, death, alarm, and disrespect that some people riding ebikes are causing. and dismissing their concerns is not going to make them happier. Dismissing the concerns of the majority of the population is not a recipe for success.
No solution will work that does not address the concerns of the majority. That's because of that 'freedom' and 'democracy' stuff. This is not rocket surgery. Ignoring it will not make it go away.
I read these determined statements about how "I'm going to sneak my way past them" and "I don't care what they want" and "how outraged I am - those tyrants!" Why do none of these freedom-loving writers notice they are part of a democracy, and acknowledge the freedom of their fellow citizens to decide that they don't want jerks on ebikes ignoring the requirements that are put in place to promote sharing the publicly owned roads and paths?
And also the decision of their fellow citizens that there is already a process in place for correcting bad decisions - inform, organize, answer concerns, vote. Why do you think you are so special you don't have to take your fellows in the society you live in into account and answer to them about how to work our society out?
You are wasting the time and work that can make ebikes (remember, that's what this thread is about - it's in the title) a sensible part of our society. Instead you plot to antagonize others by ignoring their concerns instead of addressing them, and by doing that you make it much harder for all of us.
The "what" is in the title. The solution is a society that isn't pissed off at ebikers. Antagonizing the majority does not help. Stop pretending it all belongs to you and you are fighting against evil. We as we own it, and it's we that will decide, not individuals. Stop telling the tide not to come in, and stop antagonizing the rest of the people you live with, and start doing some sensible work to correct bad policy about ebikes.
Ignoring others in a democracy just makes you sound dumb.
OlderGiantFan
Regular
Yes I know all that, no need to treat me like an imbecile ok
Did you read up on any of the "democratic" process engaged in regarding these laws? The e-cycling community was largely ignored and I can't imagine them storming parliament house over this. People are complaining on the thread because
A/ they can't accept the new laws, and
B/ because they know they have no power over them.
No democratic "we the people of endless-sphere" will ever be heard and that's the facts. Just look at the gun owners who protested the changes back in 2000, Howard had to go out to the rural areas and try to persuade them it would all be ok. They were a major force and very aggressive in protecting their democratic rights but in the end they were driven over like a rabbit on a highway.
There actually isn't a democracy btw, just the image of one, Vote A or B and get the same result. Multi-national corporations keeping all their profit offshore; unchecked immigration, a predatory banking system, I could go on and on. Democracy is a meme to keep the people believing they have power when in fact they have NONE!
Once you learned to accept that fact, you've learned a real Bene Gesserit lesson.
OlderGiantFan
Regular
OGDU is an aussie but don't measure us all by him ok. NSW is a funny place, the people down there have some funny ideas. The federal government is there in a small region that was converted into a territory. Think of it as Washington
We definitely don't operate as a democracy here in the United States ( we're a federal republic ).
Some parts of some states have occasional aspects, like local elections.
All the real decisions aren't made by the people though, and also, government is not required to listen to it's people.
Since the thread is in the context of the USA, it is strange for an Australian to be talking about 'our democracy', when these things are local him.
Nonetheless, whatever discussion happens here will have zero bearing on what legal choices will be made. It's more strange for someone to be thinking that's the case.
Some parts of some states have occasional aspects, like local elections.
All the real decisions aren't made by the people though, and also, government is not required to listen to it's people.
Since the thread is in the context of the USA, it is strange for an Australian to be talking about 'our democracy', when these things are local him.
Nonetheless, whatever discussion happens here will have zero bearing on what legal choices will be made. It's more strange for someone to be thinking that's the case.
OGDU is an aussie but don't measure us all by him ok. NSW is a funny place, the people down there have some funny ideas. The federal government is there in a small region that was converted into a territory. Think of it as Washington
Don't worry i don't see him as a representative sample
OlderGiantFan
Regular
To be fair, I think the point of his post was that we should all bend over for the greater good. "The Greater Good"
But I personally think it's every citizens duty to protest such unfair laws. By ignoring them, or snaking around them.
aroundqube
Regular
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2012
- Messages
- 683
New York City Mayor is being sued for overturning the criminal charging ( required court appearance ) for e-vehicle violations . NYC Mayor Mamdani sued over relaxing e-vehicle enforcement policy
I'm not sure how your election system works, but ours is slightly more legitimate than North Korea's, so i can't really blame the people for the outcome.
Hey, why didn't you report on the upside of short-lived anarchy zone?
I didn't even know about that, thought NYC was real strict like usual
The Toecutter
Power poster
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Everywhere is an anarchy zone! Ride accordingly.Hey, why didn't you report on the upside of short-lived anarchy zone?
I didn't even know about that, thought NYC was real strict like usual
The battery box on my quad:
Anarchy doesn't require speed, but is more easy to sustain with speed. The more speed, the greater the multiplier for the anarchy. The more acceleration and cornering ability suitable with which to commit Tomfoolry and jackassery, the more base level of anarchy. Got to have both.
I love clowning so very much.
The Toecutter
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This country's government has labelled a majority of its population as either "domestic extremists" or "terrorists" in some form already. Even infants. It's clown world! The antifa symbol is quite different and means something else entirely, but your typical room temperature IQ cop won't know or care. Just how it goes. Just for them, it's a "Class 3 ebike".
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TexanInTennessee
New-ish here
I'm concerned about over-legislation here in the US.
I want to go run some of the long rail to trails with my wife. Did the KT years ago...
So I'm electrifying my old ride with a BBSHD, 1000W. But I got that one because the motor is larger, should run cooler, and I plan to turn down the output.
I live on a mountain, so I wanted power and a mid drive.
I'm concerned if I go ride the C&O or a tow path in New England I might get my bike confiscated.
I want to go run some of the long rail to trails with my wife. Did the KT years ago...
So I'm electrifying my old ride with a BBSHD, 1000W. But I got that one because the motor is larger, should run cooler, and I plan to turn down the output.
I live on a mountain, so I wanted power and a mid drive.
I'm concerned if I go ride the C&O or a tow path in New England I might get my bike confiscated.
Usually people getting their bikes confiscated in the USA are either doing some jackass-type riding. On a trail, it seems to be typical to get a ticket. But people getting ticketed for the latter are typically riding not so stealthy looking ebikes, and may not be pedaling.
Have a Photon Gen 2 which I had set up on an MTB in Massachusetts which I used on natural-surface trails and paved rail trails this year with no problems. Trails have started putting up Class 1 only signs, but I still see plenty of Class 2 with no enforcement.
The only heat I've ever gotten for riding any of my ebikes was a bunch of kids riding four abreast on a trail shouting "no motor vehicles!" at my RadWagon. They didn't realize that under Massachusetts law, a class one (or, at the time, a class two) was not a motor vehicle, and absolutely allowed on rail trails.
TexanInTennessee
New-ish here
Varstrom sent me the kit, it included a sticker that says "250W Class 2". Think I might put that on the head tube.
Configure your bike to work within the regs and if possible pw protect the setup option and forget the code if stopped in fact you never knew it
Apply the sticker if aware if caught displaying a dodgy sticker any penalties would likely increase dramatically (would certainly do so this end). So double check it for typos and errors.. perhaps consider a diy job in your favourite design s/w- ask for ai aid if new to you?-But as long as you ride with courtesy and consideration of others on the same route why would you get stopped?
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Very relevant.
Most people riding bikes aren't pedaling and the ebikes don't look like bikes.
It's very easy to have zero problems if you are willing to build a stealthy bike and always pedal it.
The dumbest thing you can do is not slow down around pedestrians.
This is a key problem for pedestrians and is the primary weapon of the karen faction.
I always cut my motor power when passing, get down to bike speed or less when passing pedestrians. No victim, no crime.
This means i have to use throttle instead of PAS so i can easily independently control both drivetrains.
Nature trails are another thing. Most are not policed. The same advise applies but you may be busted for speed offroad because it's easier for the officials to tell between manual pedaling and electrified pedaling. In some places, i wouldn't push this too far. Also consider that you may be eroding trails by going fast.
In Salt Lake City area, the risk is very close to 0. I hear and see gas bikes on lots of trails that forbid 2 wheelers. Basically zero enforcement.
AFAIK if police had dynos in the USA, they're only operating them in high population areas, if at all.
In the EU it's another story.
We don't have a lot of US members report being busted here, which is surprising considering that the forum population leans heavily USA-centric. And we also like our fast bikes.
it seems that the east and west coast are where people have the most trouble, and that amount of trouble scales up to population density, which makes sense from a policing perspective.
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Yep, we get the kids wearing balaclavas on high power e-bikes doing wheelies down the middle of the main road and then riding straight thro' the red on traffic lights at speed without a care in the world. Even if there is a queue of vehicles at the traffic lights going on the wrong side of the road toward on coming traffic with the attitude that they are not stopping, but I think a few of them now have come unstuck being hit by oncoming cars and truck around the country.
Nope, I have spoken to a few of them, they are around 14 years old and born here. They chat to me as they like my e-bike but say it's not powerful enough for them. What can one do or say to that? And then we have 10 year olds on the larger e-scooters.
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The Toecutter
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After that encounter, I'd be wanting to do a powerful stealth build. Full suspension steel framed bike with an INNOTRACE 100V/300A "Shrimp" controller running almost 10 kW peak to a Leafbike 1500W 6T hidden by wheel disc covers that have holes drilled into them to cool a hubsink. PAS with thumb throttle hidden in a bell that you can still ring as a horn. 24S 500-ish Wh battery hidden in the frame using cells power dense enough to max out the motor(Molicel P60C could do it). Hydraulic disc brake on the front wheel, cable pull brake and regen in the rear wheel. DOT rims and tires.
You'll have something that can briefly do 50-ish mph top speed, do 45 mph until the battery runs dead without overheating, and because it's so light, it will hold its own in a drag race with the lower-end Surrons on the market. Range? 10-30 miles depending on how you ride it.
You'll get them thinking for the inevitable day the cops take their machines away. They need to know how to not look like they're on motorcycles, while still having enough power to have fun.
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The only REAL e-bike related UK immigration issue Im aware of is the organised crime gangs who 'rent' out bikes and ID's for delivery apps to the immigrants who are prohibited from working due to status reasons?
Plenty of other immigration issues tho even forgetting all the political scaremongering and fantasies found on social media.
The machines can be the worst examples of duct tape battery mountings, and the unfortunate souls who get conned into ridding them without any local road sense are simply trying to better themselves through one of the only routes they can see. All to often it can end tragically.
No evidence at hand, but i would suggest many of the work prohibited immigrants are 'contractually obligated' to their traffikers to repay them through such work.
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fill, totally agree, seen a few gaffer tape specials myself. I could if needed quite easily build a 1000 watt plus e-bike, but if I was by chance pulled up by the police, driving license etc etc buggered as well as losing the bike, whilst these youngsters can just walk away with a crushed bike.
