2012 Zero X with no battery

Saw a street legal 2012 Zero X with no battery on Craig's List for $895 and thought it would make a good project. From what I read, the original battery was a 14s, 3 kw pack. Not sure this is correct. I hooked up one of my 15s batteries charged to 58 volts and all the 12v electronics (lights, display) seem to work just fine. The controller and motor look to be in good condition. I have seen some YouTube videos where the the original battery was replace and the BMS unit was bypassed so I know it can be done. Looking for more information and possibly a wire diagram for the 8 pin connector (to the BMS?). I have 4.2Kw of 15s batteries to do a test run but plan to build a 4.5 kw (14s?) battery. Here are some photos:

Interfacing with that 8pin would require a bunch of work, as its meant to carry the coms data from the BMS to the vehicle controller computer.

I don't think its worth messing with if the battery you're going to power it with has its own BMS. That motor controller isn't hard to make run.

Thanks for the encouragement Luke. I was able to get the controller, motor, and throttle to work. I do not have garage so I work at the bottom of my condo stairs and push the bike out to a carport at night. Here is my first test without the throttle bypassed.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaXwgIack0g[/youtube]

There is a lot of information about the ALLTRAX AXE7245 controller on line. Just needed to connect the battery positive to the key switch (+57v), the throttle blue/white and white wires direct from the throttle cable to the 2 controller inputs. I used a small 24v battery to activate the relay (this used to turn on when I turned the key), but, I think I can just connect the battery negative to the right side of the relay. Here are the controller inputs and throttle wires.








The relay below is rated for 200 amps and and a maximum of 30 volts to activate. I think there is a resistor that drops the voltage to allow the battery minus to be attached to the right side but am not sure.




Tomorrow I plan to bungee my 3, 15s batteries (4 KW total) and go for a test run.

Nice score on the Zero with no Batt, every time I see them pop up online they are across the country from me!

Are those 15s batteries Kuberg Freerider batteries? Looks the shape lol

Sub'd

Today I loaded up the Zero with 3, 15s ebike batteries. This is about 4 KW of battery. My first run, I hit 45 mph on about 3/4 throttle. After that, I could only get the bike up to 35 mph. I figured that I had blown a fuse. I continued riding around the neighborhood for another mile at 25 mph. When I checked later, 2 of the three battery fuses had blown. I was still stoked with hitting 45 mph.

The battery box dimensions are 15"x 10"x 7" but it can be easily extended to 15"x 12"x 7 or even wider. My question is what voltage battery should I build? Should I stay with 14s or go 15s, 16s or 18s? I would like more speed (for PCH) but the Zero was put together by some people that know what they are doing, and, I do not. I plan to visit the scrap metal store and get some aluminum and start working on a battery box. I am thinking 540 Samsung 30q cells (15s x 36p). I am open to ideas for a battery for this bike.

Update 11/4/2022

Final finished a battery and got out for a ride. This bike is a blast! I just did short spurts in the neighborhood but was able to hit 52 mph a few times. Here are some screen shots:













So far all I have done is connect the throttle directly to the controller (with 60v plus). Also, while trying to figure out the wiring, I shorted out the 12v system. It now is on when I plug in the battery (with no key). In addition, I broke the 200 Amp, 24v activated relay which I replaced with a the same 200 amp relay but 60v activation. Now I have to route the key, shutoff switch along with the 12v system and the relay and get this bike to the DMV. They have to view the Vin to complete the registration. Any wiring tips or help are welcome. I have been dreaming about riding and owning this bike for a few years.


For those interested, here are some details on the battery build.

After looking at larger used cells like the Nissan Leaf, Chevy Volt and Toyota Prius. I decided to go with Samsung 25r cells and ordered 500 cells from Dhgate delivered for $1250.00 The final pack is a 30p,14s. On paper it is about 3.8KW. The 14 7/8" x 10" x 6 3/4" battery space is a challenge. Here are some photos:





















Now I need to figure out how the wire this bike. I am a novice at this and have already messed up creating sparks and shorts. Any advice is welcome. Here is where all the wires meet. Thanks for all the help!

Update 11/23/2022

Got the Zero to the DMV for an inspection (Vin and Motor number check). Had to take off the bottom panel so the DMV official could view the motor number.



Since then, I have about 200 miles, mostly around town with some short road trips. My longest trip is 25 miles. Top speed starts to drop along with the battery voltage and I was topping out at 45 mph after 20 miles.

Also, since I live in a 2nd floor condo, I have been parking the bike under the stairs and charging at night. This is in violation of our HOA rules but my neighbors are are fine with it, so far. I just need to run an extension chord out the front door and down the stairs. I also rent part of a car port and tested out my Harbor Freight solar panel straight to battery. This work fine but is less than 100 watts. There is no place to plug in near the car ports. I would put the panels on the roof if I was the owner.








Still working out my onboard charging setup. I picked up a J1772 adapter on Ebay and have been using a pair of Meanwell HLG-320H-54A set to 58.8 volts and Max Amps.











My plan is to mount these MeanWells on the bottom of the frame and the plug under the back of the seat. Then pick up a MeanWell NPP 1200 that I could throw in a backpack on road trips to get 1.8KW of charging. Each can do 120vac or 240vac. If you know of a better charger setup, let me know.

Very cool! Thanks for sharing!!!

OK, I have been having an issue with the Altrax 7245 controller cutting off power to the motor. It happens when I am just riding along, suddenly lose all power. There is no blinking codes showing on the controller, just a solid green LED. I assumed it might be a throttle issue, so, I rewired and re-crimped the throttle connections. I also tested the throttle and it seems to jump from 0 ohms quickly but then is liner to 4.95 K ohms. It ran well for a few days, then it started cutting out again. After I lose power, I wait awhile (10 min), plug and unplug the battery a few times, to get power back on. I can hear a click coming from the controller when power is back on. I have always made it back home but this makes riding a little stressful. I was think of ordering a communication cable and/or a new throttle. Any suggestions?

Even with the power cutting off, this bike is a blast to ride. It is so light and quick compared to my 500 pound bike. I got over 37 mile when I range tested. I also purchased this charger on eBay for $150.



It is working well and does 31 amps @58v. and fits in a small tail bag. I have been able to charge at many of the free local charging stations (gym, store, park...) so I do not need to push it under my stairs to charge much.







Also, If anyone is restoring this bike, it has it is a 420 chain with 133 links. If you get a clip-on style chain, you will need to adjust the chain guard.

I don't recall if the Altrax is like this, but some controllers will cease to output anything if a pot throttle changes overall resistance (not the output signal wire, but across the two main (5v / ground) leads.

Some will also cease to output if the throttle signal jumps during operation, such as you can get from a poor connection in a ocnnector or wire, or a bad wiper in a pot throttle.

Both of those types of controller only work with pot throttles, and do not work with hall throttles, because of those features. I've personally only seen this with brushed controllers, not brushless.


It could also be unrelated to the throttle, and be a battery problem--the battery sags enough to hit the Altrax LVC, then it shuts off, but once load is removed, the battery voltage goes back up so the controller might not give an error code because there isn't an error anymore.

Thanks Amberwolf, My battery does not sag much and the cutoff usually happens around 10 mph, either slowly accelerating or slowly decelerating. I have not been able to find much information on this form. The golfcart forms have good info on the Altrax controller. 0 to 5K ohm throttle faults seem common. One form said after a throttle fault there is a 700 second time out which seems very similar to my issue. The bike has not cutoff on the highway (40 mph+) but I get in the right lane at stop lights. It runs awesome when I go hard on the throttle off the line. I am looking at a Magura or the Sur ron replacement throttle to see if that would solve my problem.

mcintyretj said:

If you know of a better charger setup, let me know.

Click to expand...

You could go for 2 vertiv / emerson R48-2000e3s and program those to 58,5V, as shown here:

In series they would give you a 4KW charger at reasonable costs and a nice formfactor...
I'm charging my 105Ah battery in my govecs Go S 3.4 with two of those programmed to 42V each...
Makes nearly 1h of riding for 1 h charging.

Up date:

After getting a new throttle, and trying many different programing settings on the original controller, I still had the bike randomly shutting off. unplugging the battery and/or popping off the throttle connectors from the controller, then reconnecting seemed to work for a while, but, I was pushing the bike home too often, so, I decided to replace the controller with the recommended Alltrax SR 72500.





Since then, everything has been running great! I've had stress free riding for the last month. I am still playing with the settings, but get 54 mph on a fully charged battery. After 30 miles, at mostly full throttle, I am down to 45 mph. I replaced the chain (had 4 inches of play with the motor full forward), and fixed the mirrors with super glue.






I had the bike in my living room for about 4 months, and my next door neighbor, decided to park his ebike in my charging spot (under the stairs), so I have been charging at public charging stations.








I am currently using a mini GPS for my odometer until I can figure out how to wire the original.






Besides getting the zero odometer to work, I am thinking of a 20s samsung 40t battery in the future. I might try a 15 tooth front sprocket.
Also, Jollmo, Thanks for the R48-2000e3s info. I am always looking for used chargers on ebay.

9/18/2023 update

First, I kept getting ads for this Emerson R48-3000e3 power supply so I purchased one set at 58 volts for $89 from AliExpress. I did not think it would last. It is 1/3 the size and weight of my 1500w charger. After a few weeks I am very impressed.

















I had to purchase a longer tail bag and swap out Andersons for xt90 connectors. It also does not heat up much. Not sure if you can put 2 in series to make 116 volts. Thanks again jollmo!


I also purchased 4, 100 watt solar panels. I am am maxing out at 290 watts total, but, can get 2 kilowatts in my battery in 8 hours if I move the panels around on a sunny day.






Still thinking of making a 18s or 20s, Samsung 40t pack so I can go a little faster than 50 mph on PCH, where the speed limit is up to 60.

You can put 2 in series!
Just remove 1 screw on the back of the devices... (lower side)

Why you need to remove a screw on the vertiv?

I use two Huawei R4875G5 in series on a 2 phase setup and they work perfectly up to 117V and 8kw charging power.
They have a fully isolated Can-Bus so you can set them with one Can from an ESP32 and send values with your smart phone via Bluetooth.
My next step will be adding two vertiv R48-2000e3 to the third phase to give me up to 125A charging current and 10kw charging power for my 21S100Ah battery

"Why you need to remove a screw on the vertiv?"

No idea actually, most probably to separate GND from chassis?
I've been unable to get 84V without removing them, measured only the output of one of the vertivs...
Maybe it's enough to remove it from the second one in series...
Or maybe not at all, but I kind of had to do that.
(just saw, you use them on two separate phases, maybe it's needed, if you use two on only one outlet, what I did when testing my setup...)

I first tested the two Huawei with half the power on a single phase. They worked without any problem.

I will soon add the two vertiv for the third phase and will see if I have to change something.

jollmo said:

You can put 2 in series!
Just remove 1 screw on the back of the devices... (lower side)

Click to expand...

Testet two vertiv R48-2000e3 in series today. Tested from the same phase and also from two different phases.
No problems getting voltage out of the two. Up to 117V was possible.

I also tried and removed the screw from underneath, but it doesn´t change anything.
The housing is still in the middle of the output voltage and with the same high resistance to the output voltage, even a multimeter can draw the voltage on the housing during measuring to near zero.

Connected the two housing with and without the screw insered and everything ist still working.
So for me no need to remove screws.

7/22/24 update:

So I have over 2000 miles on the Zero. It has been reliable and safe way to get around town, in fact, I feel much safer on the Zero than my 35mph ebike. My longest ride is 168 miles which consisted of 4 hours riding at mostly full throttle, and about 4 hours charging. I recommend keeping the throttle setting at 50%, for safety, to save on chains, and to keep the front wheel on the ground. I still ride my 480 pound ICE bike a few time each month just to keep the 12v battery from dying. I still feel like an official EV owner even though the Zero only goes scooter speeds.



I used up all my 25r batteries I had laying around and built a 1KW+ auxiliary battery, which I strapped down in the tail bag.



This increased my range from 35 miles to over 45 miles at full throttle (50 mph) and added 13 pounds.


I also permanently relocated the charger under the back fender using zip ties and velcro. I keep it attached to the battery and it still puts out 3.2 KW according to Charge Point. This simplifies charging.



**********

In order to get this bike up to highway speeds (60mph) I was looking to build a 20s,18p Samsung 40t pack (21700) using battery holders, however, after testing a few cells, I was disappointed that they sagged almost as much as the Samsung 25r (18650) cells. and flopped around in the plastic cell holders. Still, it would be nice to get a 5 KW pack in the frame. These are the perfect size.




I am not in a big hurry and plan to test some pouch cells before I decide what cells to use. If anyone has a good source for high C pouch cells, let me know.

You do not drive on wet roads?
The Vertiv R48 are not waterproof.

dominik h said:

You do not drive on wet roads?
The Vertiv R48 are not waterproof.

Click to expand...

I live in southern California. It might not rain until Oct/Nov but I have no plans to ride when it is wet out.

"In order to get this bike up to highway speeds (60mph) I was looking to build a 20s,18p Samsung 40t pack (21700) using battery holders, however, after testing a few cells, I was disappointed that they sagged almost as much as the Samsung 25r (18650) cells. and flopped around in the plastic cell holders. Still, it would be nice to get a 5 KW pack in the frame. These are the perfect size."

I just finished building two packs out of LG INR21700-50T, 20s 20p, makes 100A at 72V.
JK-BMS with active balancing.
Our converted Govecs GO S3.4 runs 110km/h (limited!) and offers incredible torque...
Dimensions are 47 x 24 x 16cm...
We go for 4h races in the DMV-Mofa-Cup...
Thats why we have 2 identical packs to be able to develop something like a temperature-management...

For tightening the cells in the holders before welding, I use a plastic hammer and a piece of wood, to press everything together...

mcintyretj said:

Thanks for the encouragement Luke. I was able to get the controller, motor, and throttle to work. I do not have garage so I work at the bottom of my condo stairs and push the bike out to a carport at night. Here is my first test without the throttle bypassed.

[youtube]

There is a lot of information about the ALLTRAX AXE7245 controller on line. Just needed to connect the battery positive to the key switch (+57v), the throttle blue/white and white wires direct from the throttle cable to the 2 controller inputs. I used a small 24v battery to activate the relay (this used to turn on when I turned the key), but, I think I can just connect the battery negative to the right side of the relay. Here are the controller inputs and throttle wires.

Click to expand...

Hi, I have bypassed the onboard computer and connected the throttle directly to the alltrax axe controller on my zero ds, but I have a problem that it runs very jerky at part throttle.
Did you have that kind of problem with your bike before you changed the controller?

j bjork said:

Hi, I have bypassed the onboard computer and connected the throttle directly to the alltrax axe controller on my zero ds, but I have a problem that it runs very jerky at part throttle.
Did you have that kind of problem with your bike before you changed the controller?

Click to expand...

j Bjork, Yes, I had the same problem. My bike shot forward like a rocket even with the throttle setting a 25%. I tried several different setting on the original controller and also replaced the throttle but it did not fix the problem. I had to adjust the chain every week. One chain only lasted a month before it had 4 inches of play with the motor pushed all the way forward. Great for doing wheelies but a little scary in traffic.