CYC PHOTON

The photon power delivery is excellent, I think their programmers have done a great job and its a dream to ride. Adjusting the so called torque multiplier for each assist level would make the software even better

Sprag clutch failing after 2 months is a much bigger issue though, and hopefully my next clutch will last a lot longer
 
@nervagon, you probably already said, but how would the torque multiplier / Motor Assist Factor differ than the three existing Modes & Levels -> Pedal Assist Power / Torque Levels?

Screenshot_20240721_155147_Ride Control.jpg
I haven't fully watched the recent CYC Ride Control video, maybe she talks about it.
 
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Mongo said:
@nervagon, you probably already said, but how would the torque multiplier / Motor Assist Factor differ than the three existing Modes & Levels -> Pedal Assist Power / Torque Levels?

View attachment 356814
I haven't fully watched the recent CYC Ride Control video, maybe she talks about it.
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The Pedal Assist Torque Level in your screenshot from the PAS settings is not a torque multiplier setting. That is actually the max motor output torque in a percentage. Setting it to 50% would max the motor output torque at 55Nm. It seems to have no effect on the torque multiplier for the torque sensor which is a universal setting. It is just a hard cutoff for motor output torque.
 
I'm interested in getting a photon but sadly i live somewhere really really hilly (switzerland) and i'm worried about the temps
Where did ppl get informations about the proton coming ? A bigger motor would dissipate heat better
 
lisalis said:
I'm interested in getting a photon but sadly i live somewhere really really hilly (switzerland) and i'm worried about the temps
Where did ppl get informations about the proton coming ? A bigger motor would dissipate heat better
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What is the highest ambient temperature range you will be riding in, and what are the grades you will be riding up?

I have ridden the Photon up 10%-15% grades in 37C weather. Recent firmware has improved performance under stress. But you will not get BBSHD performance up long climbs. The Photon will be closer to a big brand factory ebike with a bosch CX, or Brose/specialized 2.2.

I'd say my Brose/Specialized 2.2 motor still outperforms the Photon under climbing stress.
 
lisalis said:
i live somewhere really really hilly (switzerland) and i'm worried about the temps
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It's easy to read this thread/watch review videos and assume the photon has thermal issues and wouldn't be able to handle it but it really all comes down to expectations. More info could help us evaluate things for you. What kind of bike are you thinking about putting it on? Are the hills big long slogs or short bursts of super steep? Do you expect to blast up the hills full throttle no pedaling? Things like that.

As for the proton, it's all speculation at this point, I haven't seen anything conclusive anywhere. The only things I've seen that seem solid (aka from vendors who work with CYC) are that there are delays in their plans. For all we know it could be vaporware and never actually come. I wouldn't plan around building a proton bike unless you're willing to wait multiple years. Plus the inevitable teething pains that will come when/if it is finally released.
 
Epithemeus said:
It's easy to read this thread/watch review videos and assume the photon has thermal issues and wouldn't be able to handle it but it really all comes down to expectations. More info could help us evaluate things for you. What kind of bike are you thinking about putting it on? Are the hills big long slogs or short bursts of super steep? Do you expect to blast up the hills full throttle no pedaling? Things like that.

As for the proton, it's all speculation at this point, I haven't seen anything conclusive anywhere. The only things I've seen that seem solid (aka from vendors who work with CYC) are that there are delays in their plans. For all we know it could be vaporware and never actually come. I wouldn't plan around building a proton bike unless you're willing to wait multiple years. Plus the inevitable teething pains that will come when/if it is finally released.
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my house is basically 400m uphill of the lake where i often go. Right now i use the car most of the time to do everything but i basically have to get rid of it. So i'm looking at something pretty powerful that could get me to the house from the lake/climbing gym etc.

For ex the shops are 200m of climb and 5km away.
the climbing gym is 300m of climb and 8km away.
The lake is 400m of climb and 4km away.
All of theses destinations have like slope from 5-18 degrees (15-18 degrees being for like 500m or so)

I'm always ok to pedal i've been riding my road bike for a while. I almost can do the 15-18% on my road bike but i need smaller gearing to climb lol 18% is hell. I can pass by another spot that tops at 14-15 degrees but its 2m km or so

At first i wanted to get smtg like a specialized vado but the range isnt the best and idk if it climb that well and for 5000 i can get something custom that i can service and also diy a huge battery with quality cells.

What i like about customs motor is that i can get an hardtail mtb frame like the trek marlin that accept racks for grocery shopping but also that i can ride to commute and do my stuff or lose the rack and go in the forest near the house to have fun on the trails and with a +1000wh battery i can also probably do close to 70km rides to go see my parents at their house in a decent time going 30kmish at the time.

I was hesitating to get a bbshd because i'm really sensitive to noise but i don't care about throttle and really need torque sensing. I basically want extra help pedalling i don't care about full throttle. Most of the video around show noise at full throttle so it's hard to imagine what it's like on the bike

I've looked this thread and the fb group extensively and many users report too much noise or overheating but i know we often hear mostly the negative bits overinflated.
 
nervagon said:
What is the highest ambient temperature range you will be riding in, and what are the grades you will be riding up?

I have ridden the Photon up 10%-15% grades in 37C weather. Recent firmware has improved performance under stress. But you will not get BBSHD performance up long climbs. The Photon will be closer to a big brand factory ebike with a bosch CX, or Brose/specialized 2.2.

I'd say my Brose/Specialized 2.2 motor still outperforms the Photon under climbing stress.
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Yeah i've seen your posts i mean in switzerland it's pretty rare to get 37° temps like theses days in summer its around 30° and it's hella hot. Most of the time the temp will be under this and the grades are mostly around 6-18 degree where i live. In the main city it's like 5 most of the time but it's almost never flat. To go to the lake its 400m climb 4km away so pretty intense bits
 
lisalis said:
Oh right maybe its 18% it says on strava lol
18 degrees would be insane
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And what bike frame will you be transplanting onto?

If you don't have a bike yet, and you have the budget, you may want to consider a proper ebike from a big brand... if class 3 are legal in your area. Modern big brand ebikes are way more powerful than their supposed 250W rating. But if you live in an area with high theft, or just want to build a rat bike/commuter that gets chained up and left for a while, then DIY can still be a good option.
 
nervagon said:
And what bike frame will you be transplanting onto?

If you don't have a bike yet, and you have the budget, you may want to consider a proper ebike from a big brand... if class 3 are legal in your area. Modern big brand ebikes are way more powerful than their supposed 250W rating. But if you live in an area with high theft, or just want to build a rat bike/commuter that gets chained up and left for a while, then DIY can still be a good option.
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Yeah i live in switzerland.
I wanted to build a trek marlin basically. Its cheapish at 1k so i can upgrade the fork later and basically invest money into battery and good motor.
Yeah i was hesitating. Something like a cube kathmandu with a bosch cx 85nm and 750wh battery can be had for like 3500€ but the range isnt that great. What i like about it is that it's street legal. I'm kind of worried that in switzerland i could get badly frocked by the police basically losing my car driving license riding an ebike that can be set up to have throttle and +250w of continuous sustained power for 10mn. But it's not really sure how that goes.
It seems like the bosch motor is a decent motor but i really hate the closed proprietary non custom stuff and the battery are always kinda small at 750wh. Also it's just not really a fun bike it's more of a commuter/touring but with the setup it doesn't look like it want to get on trails lol
 
I would say in terms of bang for your buck, you should probably build your own, but if you are worried about legality, maybe not.
There are a number of motors that might work for you, and a big advantage is staying away from a proprietary battery.

I have a friend that moved up a hill about 200m higher than his old place on the lakeshore. He promptly put a BBSHD on his full suspension bike and hasn't looked back.
 
lisalis said:
Yeah i live in switzerland.
I wanted to build a trek marlin basically. Its cheapish at 1k so i can upgrade the fork later and basically invest money into battery and good motor.
Yeah i was hesitating. Something like a cube kathmandu with a bosch cx 85nm and 750wh battery can be had for like 3500€ but the range isnt that great. What i like about it is that it's street legal. I'm kind of worried that in switzerland i could get badly frocked by the police basically losing my car driving license riding an ebike that can be set up to have throttle and +250w of continuous sustained power for 10mn. But it's not really sure how that goes.
It seems like the bosch motor is a decent motor but i really hate the closed proprietary non custom stuff and the battery are always kinda small at 750wh. Also it's just not really a fun bike it's more of a commuter/touring but with the setup it doesn't look like it want to get on trails lol
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Personally, I think the Bosch motors suck. They are loud and have a weird internal rattle.

But the Brose S Mag motor is wonderful. Virtually silent and very powerful.

Given the choice between a Bosch system and the Photon, I might still choose the Photon.
 
nervagon said:
Personally, I think the Bosch motors suck. They are loud and have a weird internal rattle.

But the Brose S Mag motor is wonderful. Virtually silent and very powerful.

Given the choice between a Bosch system and the Photon, I might still choose the Photon.
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Oh damn really is the bosch motor that bad ? lol
I havent seen clear comparison. The brose s mag isnt that common it seems and usually on more expensive builds or on a few bike like 4ever exstream but its in CZ or BH bikes that aren't really common so idk about quality.
Wasnt brose supposedly coming with the new iteration of the S Mag ?
Anyway not really the discussion there i guess..

You think the photon noise/heat is similar to the bosch system ?
 
lisalis said:
Oh damn really is the bosch motor that bad ? lol
I havent seen clear comparison. The brose s mag isnt that common it seems and usually on more expensive builds or on a few bike like 4ever exstream but its in CZ or BH bikes that aren't really common so idk about quality.
Wasnt brose supposedly coming with the new iteration of the S Mag ?
Anyway not really the discussion there i guess..

You think the photon noise/heat is similar to the bosch system ?
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The Photon is not silent, but the sound it makes is not unpleasant. I find the Photon noise to be acceptable. I do not find Bosch motor noise to be acceptable, but apparently many people do since it is on so many shipping bikes.

I am sensitive to motor sound, and I believe that ebikes should be silent. I have a very capable motor, the Bikee Lightest, that is sitting in a box simply because it is too loud. The Bikee Lightest is both lighter and more powerful than the Photon, but I chose the Photon because it is the quieter drive.

So yeah, I would probably choose the Photon over a nice Bosch CX bike as well, at least until their engineers can figure out how to build something less annoying.
 
Here's a sound check of the Brose S Mag vs the Bosch CX at 7:19


I'd say the Photon is between the Brose and the Bosch noise wise.
 
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