Ok to post here with a possible build discussion?

B

BrianMH13

1 W
Joined
Jun 19, 2024
Messages
51
Location
Oregon
I'm a new member and had posted an introduction in General when I wasn't really sure/had a broad range of ideas for what I wanted to do.

Since then with advices and riding of a Aipas A2 I've a little better honed in on what I think I would like to try.

I figured maybe I'd break away from that first post with revised ideas.

Would this be a good place to post? Or should I keep a posting in general. I ask because my newer ideas/questions will definitely be more technical than before.

Specifically questions about BMS, Batteries, controllers and compatibility of those.

Also involving the particular bike in mind to be modded.
 
This subforum or General both work. The sticky below contains some of the things that may go into making your decisions, so thinking about that, and providing your situation or preferences up front will be helpful for obtaining good advice.

endless-sphere.com

How to get the proper advice, read before asking

Welcome to ES****Do this before your first post or now (it's retroactive)***** This is a worldwide forum, so please go to the User Control Panel, select Profile, and then enter your city, state/province, and country into the Location field (country minimum) and save it. Once done, your location...
endless-sphere.com endless-sphere.com
 
I'll start here with what I think would be cool for me.

Speed on flat ground 30-35mph

Range desired 30-40mi mostly throttle if possible at 30mph

Wheel size 20" street slicks primary

750-1,000w Hub Motor

Hydraulic Disk Brakes

Terrain lots of flat roads some hills of maybe up to 4-6% grade.

Bike brand/model to be modded

Massimo E14 (Super 73 "clone")

Upgrades considered in question

Custom built battery pack, Controller, and BMS

I'm basically just looking at feasibility of upgrading the Massimo E14 to have a good range (double or triple and a little more top speed than stock. Ability to program the controller beyond what the stock is capable of and ability to fast charge.

The Massimo cost is less than 600.00 looking like a good platform to work with at the cost. Would like to upgrade it for a few hundred dollars. Keeping the total build price around 1,000$ total.
 
Speed, range, and type of bike are conflicting. Inefficient little dwarf bikes are for low efficiency (low speed, short range, or both) applications.

If you think you'll get one quarter of your performance goals for another $400 max, you're not being realistic. For another $1000 on top of your bike, you can do it but it will take some creativity.

Here's one shortcut you could use:
www.greentecauto.com

UR18650ZK V52A Sanyo 54V 38Ah 2kWh 18650 module | Greentec Auto

A compact 15S battery module with plenty of space to install your own BMS. Great for small projects or modular systems! These modules contain Sanyo 2.5Ah cells in a 15s17P configuration. Price per kWh: $50/kWh $25/kWh and $20/kWh Years: 2019 Shipping: Free Ground or Freight Warranty: 3 Months...
www.greentecauto.com www.greentecauto.com
 
Are we talking about this?
1722294338845.png

In this case, nice, you've got dual suspension ( will help at high speed ) and actual pedals.
You need a pretty large battery to achieve what you want. 35mph uses 1500w continuous. you'll want a 1.5kwhrs battery.

What's the current voltage of your battery?
 
BrianMH13 said:
I'll start here with what I think would be cool for me.

Speed on flat ground 30-35mph

Range desired 30-40mi mostly throttle if possible at 30mph

Wheel size 20" street slicks primary

750-1,000w Hub Motor

Hydraulic Disk Brakes

Terrain lots of flat roads some hills of maybe up to 4-6% grade.

Bike brand/model to be modded

Massimo E14 (Super 73 "clone")

Upgrades considered in question

Custom built battery pack, Controller, and BMS

I'm basically just looking at feasibility of upgrading the Massimo E14 to have a good range (double or triple and a little more top speed than stock. Ability to program the controller beyond what the stock is capable of and ability to fast charge.

The Massimo cost is less than 600.00 looking like a good platform to work with at the cost. Would like to upgrade it for a few hundred dollars. Keeping the total build price around 1,000$ total.
Click to expand...
You are about $1000 short.

I'd stretch the budget and put $800 or so into a better battery, and do a shunt mod on the stock controller, and save to upgrade the rest.
Any speed over 20 mph and you're throwing a lot of watts at fighting wind resistance, instead of range. Speed and range = $$$

In this example, the range for 20mph vs 28mph, with a 52V20Ah pack, is 52 miles vs 28 miles respectively.

Motor Simulator - Tools

Our ebike motor simulator allows you to easily simulate the different performance characteristics of different ebike setups - with a wide selection of hub motors modeled, and the ability to add custom batteries and controllers and set a wide variety of vehicle parameters you'll be able to see...
ebikes.ca ebikes.ca
 
Yes that's the model I was referring to. Ok so 35mph would necessitate an upgrade to the hub motor.

Not something I'd want to do right away. It looks like it's got a regular width crank set which would make pedaling nicer than the average little fat bike like this. The seat is still pretty wide which may or may not be very comfortable. I think it may not be very hard to modify that aspect though.

I get that this sort of bike isn't for absolute efficiency. A mid drive lightweight rigid frame 26"-700c bike that's very pedal-able is a type for efficiency.

I couldn't see that Massimo being much less efficient than the Aipas I'm riding now and other than a bit less range than I would like it's fine for me.

Sounds like if I got a Massimo and keeping the stock motor build a 48v pack of say 20ah and have basically what I'd like. If it only does 28-30 that's fine.

If I like it I could upgrade other parts like the motor later maybe going dual hub.

What I really think the Massimo E14 platform could allow me to do that I think would be really cool would be build a hybrid with it.

That frame looks pretty perfect for a small combustion engine. Custom built battery where the seat is and place a custom bench cushion on top of the battery pack.

I don't know if you guys hate that Idea but I think it would be awesome if it has a decent quality to start with.
 
E-HP I've been learning that with the Aipas. The first day I rode it I had it in class 2 settings 20mph max. After that I switched to class 3 (28mph) and have been riding with those settings since. I only use PAS 5 occasionally if I'm needing to stretch the range or climb hills quick. If I ride in PAS 5 without actually supplying any muscle power/throttle only riding the range is around 14 miles. With how I ride otherwise I probably get around 30 miles or more

From what I've seen 800.00$ seems like a pretty steep estimate to build a 48v 20ah battery from cells or even for a pre made pack of that size am I wrong?
 
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Say I'm ok with 28-30mph. The Aipas has a 11ah pack and a 750w Bafang hub motor. It does 12-16 miles basically throttle only. The Massimo is a 750 hub. If I made/bought a pack of 20ah or a little bigger shouldn't I get double the range all other things pretty much being equal?

Say I did a custom built pack that basically filled the entire frame I couldn't imagine not having a bunch of range.
 
BrianMH13 said:
From what I've seen 800.00$ seems like a pretty steep estimate to build a 48v 20ah battery from cells or even for a pre made pack of that size am I wrong?
Click to expand...
I was thinking with that frame space, 28-30Ah.

What I would do with that frame is put in a big battery, and a BBSHD inside the frame, and later, replace the back motor with a regular bicycle wheel. The BBSHD inside the frame will be stealthy and you'll have the gearing and speed, while still being relatively quiet.
Take a couple of measurements, but looking at how the bottom bracket is situated, it looks like a good and rare candidate for an in frame mid drive.
Start with the battery and create a logical upgrade path.

Might be close. It would tilt rearward in your frame.

BBS.jpg
google pic
fetch
 
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Huh so you're saying BBSHD and Rear Hub Motor?

A 28-30ah battery would definitely be pretty sweet. I was just thinking 20ah would be probably the minimum of what I'd want and to keep cost lower.

Starting with the battery was what I was thinking and exactly upgrade from there.
 
BrianMH13 said:
What I really think the Massimo E14 platform could allow me to do that I think would be really cool would be build a hybrid with it.
Click to expand...

A real e-bike is a hybrid, meaningfully propelled by both electric motor and pedal power. The one you have won't work for a human-electric hybrid because its design interferes with pedaling. You have to start with a bike that you can ride effectively without motor assistance.

If you're talking about adding a stinking noisy smog machine to your e-bike? Gross. Don't do that.
 
I totally get the practicality of EBikes in an urban environment. I think it's great to have a quiet non-air polluting transportation available. It's even greater when people utilize public/mass transportation and carpooling.

A number of years ago I had conducted preliminary tests on a fuel system that I would like to develop for Diesel engines that would improve efficiency quite a bit and profoundly reduce NoX and particulate emissions.

I've mentioned my idea on a Car forum and most people dismissed what I was saying even after research found what I was referencing. One guy was pretty stoked and we discussed it a bit but most people didn't seem to care.

Yes everyone can make a difference and "leading by example"/"practice what you preach" are I believe good ideals but I can only do so much with somewhat limited resources/recognition.

The idea to have a hybrid Gas/Electric/Me powered bike seems like a step in the right direction philosophically and practically. I'm semi rural and the 8 miles to town is sparsely populated. Many of the places I would ride through/to recreationally are sparsely populated.

I think a hybrid like I'm proposing would allow me to travel distances through areas of less impact and in urban areas move around clean and quietly.

I can try to appreciate you're view Chalo but only to a degree no offense.
 
Also such a hybrid may not even work or work well anyway. It's possible that I would prefer/cost of a 28-30ah battery and BBSHD as E-HP mentioned would be better anyway.

I think the Massimo despite it's possible lack of comfortable pedaling and less efficiently (than a bicycle conversion) it looks like it could be a good option for me to at least experiment with and I would like to get the chance to.
 
You'd be extremely unhappy with the weight of such a bike, an ebike is heavy already, an ebike with a gasoline motor in it will be bone crushingly heavy.
 
BrianMH13 said:
Huh so you're saying BBSHD and Rear Hub Motor?

A 28-30ah battery would definitely be pretty sweet. I was just thinking 20ah would be probably the minimum of what I'd want and to keep cost lower.

Starting with the battery was what I was thinking and exactly upgrade from there.
Click to expand...
No, just the BBSHD, and the hub motor, unpowered/freewheeling until you get a regular bike wheel, or lace the current rim into a bike hub. You can ride it for a while until you decide what to do. You'd get more range and better performance if you put some narrower tires on the bike.
 
BrianMH13 said:
The idea to have a hybrid Gas/Electric/Me powered bike seems like a step in the right direction philosophically and practically. I'm semi rural and the 8 miles to town is sparsely populated. Many of the places I would ride through/to recreationally are sparsely populated.
Click to expand...

I've been doing a 14 miles each way commute across town, through brutal working class suburban conditions and intentionally confounded routes, for the last year. Only one of my batteries will do the round trip at full speed without a recharge. Almost all of them will do it with a charge at work. Never once was I tempted to join the chain smoking, rotten alcoholic, poorly groomed, ill-mannered gasbike tribe to make it work out.

My advice is don't be that guy.
 
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Just the BBSHD is what I thought you were saying. I have seen a person either build or talk about building with both though. Getting a regular hub spokes and lacing it to the stock wheel wouldn't necessarily be hard for me to do. I've got experience truing wheels. I used to volunteer at a community bicycle shop.
 
Are you still planning to pedal enthusiatically?
I tried to allude to this in your other thread.
Look at that Super 73 (motorcycle type) seat. Also notice it is not adjustable. What is your size? Do you still think you will enjoy pedaling it?
 
I planned on a custom battery under the seat/raising the seat if I needed further leg extension.

If it's too wide to be comfortable I could modify that too.
 
Saw this build on Reddit. It's seems exactly like what you were suggesting E-14.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ebikes/comments/ykhe85

I'm more and more thinking this bike looks like a good deal. The fork costs 200-400.00 alone purchased separately from other vendors.

A Super 73 with the same fork costs over 4 times as much as the Massimo. I'm sure there are things like the controller, battery and maybe small frame differences that make the 73 better but the Massimo looks to be one of if not the best value for this type of bike especially as a platform to upgrade/modify.

I'd like to pick one of these up soon.
 
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BrianMH13 said:
It looks like it's got a regular width crank set which would make pedaling nicer than the average little fat bike like this.
Click to expand...

All fat bikes will have wide q factor. If you add BBSHD to one of these fat bikes the q factor will further increase.

But I guess it depends on what your idea of "wide" is? The phatmoto gas bike you bought has super wide cranks on a 120mm BB in order to clear the width of the four stroke gasoline motor.

www.phatmoto.com

PHATMOTO® All-Terrain Bottom Bracket

Phatmoto’s All Terrain Bottom Bracket is a must-buy and the best part is that it supports all terrains comfortably. You can have the best bicycling experience with this. So go and buy this right away.
www.phatmoto.com www.phatmoto.com

www.phatmoto.com

PHATMOTO® Wide Pedal Crank (2pc)

The ultimate upgrade to enhance your biking experience, the PHATMOTO® Wide Pedal Crank offers a wider and more comfortable platform for your feet, providing improved stability and power transfer. Upgrade your ride today and feel the difference!
www.phatmoto.com www.phatmoto.com
 
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