Lithium Titanite battery source?

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Aug 28, 2021
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New South Wales
Can anyone provide a source for a Lithium Titanite battery for an ebike?

36V or 48V or other 'standard' voltage
with useful BMS & other appropriate electronics
some reasonable Ah rating

In general, usable as the power source for an ebike. My machine uses a Grin Phaserunner or Baserunner and an All-Axle. I also have Grin's SX2 and a GMAC if that somehow mattered. I can switch voltages.

I know this is likely to be more expensive, but then 10-20 years of Li-Ion batteries add up too, and I read that Li-Ti don't burn. I'm wondering if I should stop nickel-and-diming the issue and just front up for the long run.

Real ideas, please.
 
Are you sure you want these? per watt hour, you'll have ~1/3rd the capacity versus a typical lithium cell.
You also need specialized BMS and charger that works at much lower voltage.
You will have a hard time finding a premade ebike pack i think, so it might be a DIY affair.

I'm personally waiting for solid state cells, or something like them. There are a couple companies doing pilot production now and next year, so the possibility of us ebikers getting our hands on some will at least be over 0% in the next year or two.
 
Are you sure you want these?

Perhaps I could be permitted to make my decision based on information about the availability and price?
 
Just here to give you one last sanity check on the idea, that's all!
 
There are 2.5 Ah 23680 cells in AliExpress. But the quality control is low - real capacity is more than 5% below and DC resistance is high. To my knowing 18650 variants are at the same level. If you need safe chemistry, check sodium cells. I have very good impressions from second generation Na Ion in 32700 formats, again from AliExpress.
 
There are 2.5 Ah 23680 cells in AliExpress. But the quality control is low - real capacity is more than 5% below and DC resistance is high. To my knowing 18650 variants are at the same level. If you need safe chemistry, check sodium cells. I have very good impressions from second generation Na Ion in 32700 formats, again from AliExpress.
Safety is important (dying even once can ruin your whole day) but longevity is also very important to me. A titanite battery could last the rest of my life - how does the sodium chemistry fare?
 
To anyone following, I'd like to hear about long lived batteries with BMS, etc if you know of such, as well as ideas about parts.

My Satiator can probably be programmed to charge anything as may my Solar panels.

I will need everything to make a working battery. Best if I can buy it now.
 
cells like...
@8$ USD per cell, that is an incredible deal for LTO from a reputable manuf. I got the same cells bulk naked from BH a few years ago for 10$ each which I thought then was a bargain. This deal seems even better, not only for cost sake, but the module is already isolated, in a housing, and with really good buss bars. Bulky as is for an ebike though. In my case the application is a traction pack for a non-pedal scooter, and the frame is more robust and conducive to these cells/modules physical properties.

One of the catches for me about the LTO cells was their internal resistance, which for these SCIB models is around 0.01 ohm. That seems like it would be fantastic for some of the incredible emotorcycle builds I see on here, for folks wanting really high discharge and charge rates. That or an epic pack for a riding or push lawn mower!!

As far as separating the linked BH SCIB module up into individual cells for custom pack size... that might be tricky to do well. Also, since the cells recomm. LVC is around 1.8v, and the HVC is around 2.6v, you'd want 18s for a 36v nominal pack. That could end up being fairly big and weighty, and difficult but not impossible to find a design conducive for a ebike frame. Probably want a very sturdy frame at that, and mount such a pack low for CG aspects.

Alternatively you might be able to get some LTO pouch cells and create something with a bit better form factor for an Ebike. Someone did a LTO pack on a Mt. frame a few years ago here with pouch LTO cells. The build and review is here...
 
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Bulky as is for an ebike though. In my case the application is a traction pack for a non-pedal scooter, and the frame is more robust and conducive to these cells/modules physical properties.

for folks wanting really high discharge and charge rates.

As far as separating the linked BH SCIB module up into individual cells for custom pack size... that might be tricky to do well.

Alternatively you might be able to get some LTO pouch cells and create something with a bit better form factor for an Ebike. Someone did a LTO pack on a Mt. frame a few years ago here with pouch LTO cells. The build and review is here...
I want to come to conclusions so I can act. Acting would mean buying pieces, or asking more questions.

I'll start with questions I can think of now. The problem is all the answers others already know, and thus don't mention, and which I don't know exist, so can't fill in the blanks about, or ask about. That is, tell me things you think I might already know. Terse responses aren't helpful because I can't interpret them - I don't have the background, or don't know that I have enough background. Thanks in advance for the extra effort. I did digital electronics for satellites 50 years ago, and lack recent knowledge or knowledge of power electronics or batteries.

Background: I'm retired now. I have modest capital. I'm designing my solution to also provide my power needs independent of wall power - I might take off around Australia on my trike while I'm still able to. Part of this is lowering my power needs, part of this is reliability. I have some good, lightweight solar panels, and some of Grin's kit for solar charging, as well as Grin's Satiator, Phaserunner v6 & Baserunner (currently installed), Cycle Analyst v3, All-Axle V3 rear.

The application is the 3d machine in my sig below - a full-size Greenspeed Magnum Big Wheel trike. Not an upright bicycle. From the evolution in the sig, you can see that I started with uprights, but my deteriorating back has forced me into using a trike. At the same time, I'm retired and need to be frugal, so I won't be designing a dedicated, custom machine - I'm working with the Greenspeed. Although the pictures are not up to date, the motor is where it's shown - behind the seat. This is working well now.

The current battery pack is on the spine over the cross-members between my legs. There is room for another battery or even batteries in several places. Among other further customisations, I am considering making a custom rack that integrates with the motor mounting frame to provide better load carrying, support for overhead solar panels, and a trailer attachment point. Two of these SCiB batteries should be easy to mount in their current form.

For both the LFP and LTO cells:
  • Can I charge them with my current kit?
  • Can I buy the BMS, or is this an unknown that I must investigate, educate myself about, and perhaps even design?
  • What have I not mentioned that I need to add, source, design, etc.? Apart from what I've written here, I may not know about what else I need.
I would rather buy now than wait for something "better" next year, as the world is getting quite shaky and I have no further need to be cool. I want to live my life without hassles. I am partial to the titanite cells, as they are likely to work for my remaining lifespan (or at least riding span), so if I solve the problem now, it's solved for good.

Two of those SCiB assemblies would probably give me everything I need if they can actually be used for this, and the price is in the range of a replacement "regular" Li-ion battery for my trike. But they come from the USA, and reference that "shaky" bit above - as long as they will actually do the job.

I mean I want to choose something that will work, and any other bits it needs, and get it now.

My new landlord is already quite nervous about me having a Li-ion battery on the property. It does not matter that it's ok, it matters that I be able to prove that the battery I use can't burn. The titanite battery partly came from my thread about a solar-only system - the longevity is the attraction. But I read it's also inherently safe - it can't burn (no thermal run away).

But if LFP is better, tell me, and tell me why, please, so I can make real choices. Thanks.
 
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What are the components of your vehicle? I don't see any details in signature.
There are links in the signature? Does that not work?

I also mentioned the electric components in my posts above.
 
I will share with you what I have learned on here which is not as much as most and not enough to make quick decisions with out giving it thought.

Batteries: (sure to be corrected if i'm wrong) Think of size, energy density and longevity. You can go from the smallest with the most energy but need the most care and replacement. Then you have low energy, needs lots room and heavy and may last ten years.

The way to figure this out is to know what you need then find a battery that is a close match. Here we ride bikes they are limited on space and the weight we can carry. We need to figure out what the motor needs for power then work on how big we can get the battery and still fit it on the bike.

Before I go on. Batteries are like gasoline we have learned how to treat gasoline but not batteries. If you treat a battery well it is unlikely you will have a fire. Most battery fires are from abuse or just cheap batteries. Not saying care and precautions should not be made.

The reason that people are steering you away from Lithium Titanite (have not look them up in years) is the battery would not provide enough energy for the size that would fit on your trike. I would like to run LFP's but for the cycle life but the weight and battery size always stops me.

Everyone here is always casing the best battery so most her will guide you in that direction. Treating your battery well can extent the life along way. Don't charge to high or run them to low, get them to hot. Don't charge them up and the night before or before storage that would be a mid level voltage. Worried about fires charge them in the open and watch it charge. You can get a steel box and leave batteries in them when not in use.
 
Does anyone have thoughts how I would evaluate this supplier? I think they are oriented towards large orders, but I'm thinking of contacting them to see if they will sell me a one-off evaluation pack.

LTO Battery
 
Sample would be good as long as the order would be same as sample. Mostly depend on reviews of batteries here. Don't want to offer advise on who to buy from. Struggle with that myself, always want to build my own but not really something I would do well at this time in my life.
 
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