12kW eBike hub motor?

Montage.pl

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Feb 6, 2014
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Hello.

Is QS 273 V3 40H the most powerful hub motor on the market or there is something more potent?

I would love to put my hands on hub motor that has 12kW of nominal power to use full potential of Sabvoton 72200 and QS 273 has only 4kW of rated power :/
 
Hello.

Is QS 273 V3 40H the most powerful hub motor on the market or there is something more potent?

I would love to put my hands on hub motor that has 12kW of nominal power to use full potential of Sabvoton 72200 and QS 273 has only 4kW of rated power :/
Hi,
QS 273 V3 40H 40mm magnets is not most powerful hub motor on the market. There is more powerful and potent. For example 273 with 45mm 50mm magnets, latest versions with lots of copper and less poles.

If you would find 12kw hub motor you would not use it's potential with Sabvoton 72200 because the controller could not supply enough power for 12kw hub. You would need twice or three times more powerful controller.

273 8kw 50mm magnets hub weighs 21kg. Look into it. Even before mentioned hub has more potential than Sabvoton 72200 can provide.
 
Hello.

Is QS 273 V3 40H the most powerful hub motor on the market or there is something more potent?

I would love to put my hands on hub motor that has 12kW of nominal power to use full potential of Sabvoton 72200 and QS 273 has only 4kW of rated power :/
Hi,
QS 273 V3 40H 40mm magnets is not most powerful hub motor on the market. There is more powerful and potent. For example 273 with 45mm 50mm magnets, latest versions with lots of copper and less poles.

If you would find 12kw hub motor you would not use it's potential with Sabvoton 72200 because the controller could not supply enough power for 12kw hub. You would need twice or three times more powerful controller.

273 8kw 50mm magnets hub weighs 21kg. Look into it. Even before mentioned hub has more potential than Sabvoton 72200 can provide.
So it sounds like the QS 273 can do the job, and is more than enough to utilize the controller's full potential.

It would be interesting to know in what scenario 12kW would be used continuously on an ebike. Maybe pulling a heavy trailer or a loaded cargo bike up a long steep grade? (I'm assuming there's an ebike involved, and not just a lab test of the controller). Using the Cromotor, it looks like an 800 pound ebike, on 26" wheels, going up a 23% incline, can max out the controller battery amps (but not phase amps), but the motor melts in 40 seconds since it's near stalled.
 
So it sounds like the QS 273 can do the job, and is more than enough to utilize the controller's full potential.

It would be interesting to know in what scenario 12kW would be used continuously on an ebike. Maybe pulling a heavy trailer or a loaded cargo bike up a long steep grade? (I'm assuming there's an ebike involved, and not just a lab test of the controller). Using the Cromotor, it looks like an 800 pound ebike, on 26" wheels, going up a 23% incline, can max out the controller battery amps (but not phase amps), but

he motor melts in 40 seconds since it's near stalled.
Crootor will go neatly up the hill with its 800 lb without ever overheating if you just demand 10% throttle. At 0.6mph. Demand more than that and it overheats. lol. jst cannot pull that load up the hill. 23% grade? 800lbs? lol. three clydesdale horses couldn't do that faster than 1mph.

Without ever melting. Or flling over ded. https://ebikes.ca/tools/simulator.html?motor=MCRO5004_Sinks&batt=B7223_AC&cont=cust_200_450_0.03_T&hp=0&axis=mph&frame=mountain&autothrot=false&throt=10&grade=23&wheel=26i&mass=363&temp=-10

IKY you think the Sab has a voltage speed throttle? Is that what it is? I thought you could set that in the app... ( not an "Amp tork throttle"? ...) or always has to be on 100% throttle.. this will make it stall and overheat.. but a Cromotor can easily go up the hill at 10% throttle and never overheat. At half a mph. Ask for ANY more than taht, it overheats. Lol. Jst aint doing 800lbs up a 23%.

Set up the sim correctly f you want a better answer. Dont ever use " voltage' speed control, ( Sab s not) anddont use " 100%" tTH all the time.. ( you dont so why sim like that?) .. In my opinion. for better real world conditioning.

I got a cromotor. I got a 800lb load. Wanna test out this? I t doesnt matter. Demand any over 10% on a 800 lb load and a 23% grade and it overheats. Even with a 12" rim in there it isnt doing it. Let alone a 19" or 26" .. lol. I did check that out. Change the rim dia. You would think it would help get that 800lbs u the hill but noope still overheats, only in 3 min, not 40 sec, and goes 11mph up that hill.. not 0.6mph. Lol. Still overheats though.

Takes power to spin up. Remember this. Electric motors take power to SPOOL up to the top end. this is where the power is taken. If they cannot overcome the load.. they heat up form luggin and boggin.

I love playing with the sim and my cromotor.

Change the voltage on the setup to ... 96Vn... Ehp. This is where the cromo in a 4Tx18S begins to shine.. and suck up the 7-10, 12kW continouslyin the speed and accleration motoring phase of the motoring tork.

Dont kill your motor. Locked rotor is locked rotor... locked rotor curent kills motos in a blink, right, brosif? Anyway, thanks for the discussion.
 
Hello.

Is QS 273 V3 40H the most powerful hub motor on the market or there is something more potent?

I would love to put my hands on hub motor that has 12kW of nominal power to use full potential of Sabvoton 72200 and QS 273 has only 4kW of rated power :/
I think the 40H is the most powerful " bicycle" SPOKED hub motor. With spoke holes.

Over that they are motorcycle motors.. ( 50H, etc, the bigger wider 273 motors.. then there is Yma and the like.. golden motors.. Too) with a beaded rim built onto the top of the hub. All my scooter friends put the 273 3.5T i scooters in 12"-13"-14"15"-16" rims for good speed and good tork and heavy loading up above 60mph, to about 120mph.. and this is where you see the heavier loading continuously ( <12kW).
 
Crootor will go neatly up the hill with its 800 lb without ever overheating if you just demand 10% throttle. At 0.6mph. Demand more than that and it overheats. lol. jst cannot pull that load up the hill. 23% grade? 800lbs? lol. three clydesdale horses couldn't do that faster than 1mph.
Ya, it's pretty hard to model scenarios that use 12kW continuously using the simulator, but it does illustrate what that amount of power/torque represents. It's roughly 16HP, so as far as "horse" power goes, that translates to lifting 8,800 lbs 1 foot per second.

1200px-Imperial_Horsepower.svg.png
 
273 8kw 50mm magnets hub weighs 21kg. Look into it. Even before mentioned hub has more potential than Sabvoton 72200 can provide.
So what motor would you suggest for my Sabvoton 72200 (300A ANT BMS) my 82v battery can produce 16kW. Currently I have Cromotor v2 (nominal 5kW) but it's overheating and cannot go faster than 50mph on 19inch rims. Torque is good enough for my needs but would like to go 80mph and has less overheating motor.
 
So what motor would you suggest for my Sabvoton 72200 (300A ANT BMS) my 82v battery can produce 16kW. Currently I have Cromotor v2 (nominal 5kW) but it's overheating and cannot go faster than 50mph on 19inch rims. Torque is good enough for my needs but would like to go 80mph and has less overheating motor.
you can do 50mhp with 205 v2, must be 5T 9kv. You want 30mph increase. This is very big speed increase. If dropouts 150/155mm than two choices 273 40mm 4kw nominal 3.5T or 260 v4, You shuold look into 3T or 3.5T versions about 13kv (not 9kv or not 10kv or not 11kv) in another words speed version, fast versions, not torque like you got which is 9kv 5T.

205 50h 3kw 12.3kg phase wire 10mm2, 10mm
260 40h 4kw 278mm spoke diameter, 16.2kg phase wire 16mm2, axle 12mm
273 40h 4kw 317mm spoke diameter, 17.2kg sometimes they write 18kg, but I think it is 17.2kg. phase wire 16mm2, 12mm

All these motors can ''eat'' yours supplied 16kw but slow version will heat faster and won't be so efficient (in practice) as before mentioned 260 or 273.

You could see big difference with 205 v3 3.5T compared to what you have, in speed and in dynamics big difference, but it won't do 80mph, will do 65mph though, but won't sustain it too long. But it would feel like speed machine compared to yours motor.
 
So what motor would you suggest for my Sabvoton 72200 (300A ANT BMS) my 82v battery can produce 16kW. Currently I have Cromotor v2 (nominal 5kW) but it's overheating and cannot go faster than 50mph on 19inch rims. Torque is good enough for my needs but would like to go 80mph and has less overheating motor.
ps. your motors is 3kw nominal, and because it is v2 I would call it about 2,5kw but officially it is 3kw.
 
... will heat faster and won't be so efficient (in practice) as before mentioned 260 or 273...
what I want to say that smaller motor won't be as efficient after it heats up compared to bigger motors considering that bigger stronger motor won't heat up. In other words heat is not good. So if you really need that impractical high speed than only option is 273 and maybe 260.
 
ps. your motors is 3kw nominal, and because it is v2 I would call it about 2,5kw but officially it is 3kw.
Is it really only 2.5kW? Wow, I was told by Zelena that's 5kW. I always felt something was wrong with motor XD

Anyways, it's look like the best option for me is this qs 263 50mm with rimm and spokes.

NBPOWER 200mm Dropout, QS 273 Spoke Hub Motor(50H) 12000W -16000W QS V3 Type, Designed for Electric Motorcycle, Max Speed can be Customized from 120KMPH. https://a.co/d/2whKo59
 
Is it really only 2.5kW? Wow, I was told by Zelena that's 5kW. I always felt something was wrong with motor XD

Anyways, it's look like the best option for me is this qs 263 50mm with rimm and spokes.

NBPOWER 200mm Dropout, QS 273 Spoke Hub Motor(50H) 12000W -16000W QS V3 Type, Designed for Electric Motorcycle, Max Speed can be Customized from 120KMPH. https://a.co/d/2whKo59
If this hub is for light ebike up to 100kg than 273 40h 4kw is more than enough.
 
If this hub is for light ebike up to 100kg than 273 40h 4kw is more than enough.
What would be the difference in torq / speed between normal 273 and the one with 50mm magnets assuming they both work with my Sabvoton 72200? BTW what constant power 72200 can produce?
 
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What would be the difference in torq / speed between normal 273 and the one with 50mm magnets assuming they both work with my Sabvoton 72200? BTW what constant power 72200 can produce?
''difference in torq / speed between normal 273 and the one with 50mm'' I think negligible difference with your controller and assuming that your ebike is considerably light. Maybe you would notice bigger difference in some heavier motorcycle. Maybe what you would notice is additional several kg in your wheel but is depends on what surface you would ride.
btw, there is no normal 273 and with 50h. All they are normal nominal max good strong small big powerful etc They are just different motors, some have 205 diameter some 260 some 273 etc, magnets 28mm - 80mm...


Something constant is assuming certain conditions are present and set in advance. So what can be constant if conditions are not the same... There will be different temp, weight, road inclines. Usually you don't do constant riding in reality, load always fluctuate.
72200 maybe it can work with 70amp constantly, it deptens, probably manufacturer sets these numbers... there is no point searching what it can do constant, because we won't meet those circumstances in our day to day life anyways unless you plan do some long traveling and keep controller in certain conditions then yes, you would benefit at these numbers but you anyways would try what you have and if it overheats than you would change something. And that something usually is heat decrease by some means ie increase cooling in some way, spread that heat somehow and you will change that constant therefore it is not constant.
Let just say that how I see those components in practise.
273 40h ~3t is ok with 72200 but the motors can take up to twice power the controller can provide. I see people bursting it up to 30kw.
273 50h can do +10kw what 273 40h can do in bursts. But this is all about bursts... constant is whole another story. That is why they are declared as 3kw 4kw 5kw 6kw 8kw nominal. Nominal could be similar to constant but nothing is nominal or constant unless certain conditions are met beforehand.
So I would say if you building light ebike and want crazy fast machine than take 273 40h. I see no point for 50h but if it won't hurt (additional weight and price) just for having more potential in future. Your current controller won't be up to the task of potential motors capabilities anyways. Well, axles, if you care you should now that these hubs have different axles. Hubs meant for 200mm dropouts have thicker ones. If you plan to travel high speeds than you could benefit from stronger axle.
Fast motor means less resistance inside, less resistance inside means you need to pass more currents to get that crazy fast acceleration and it means you need more powerful controller. If you want to go fast it it needs top components. All three of them: motor, battery, controller. At high power it gets heavier expensier and way way more wasted energy, because of constant fight with air.
 
My SVMC72150 works more than 20 minutes with 150A battery current and more. I did a test ride uphill with my 180kg heavy scooter where 10-13kw where taken from the battery for more than 20 minutes . You only have to keep the controller cool enough. There is no power reduction over temperatur , there exist only a cut off temperatur. The 16mm² Phase wires reached 180 degrees Celsius during my test, the controller only reached 60C.

Mine is mounted on a big aluminium sheet and has a temperature controlled fan.
My SVMC72150 has no 10 seconds burst power, it always makes the same power level.
Same thing was with my SVMC72260.

The SVMC72200 uses the same logic and programm as the others , so there will be no real difference except the power rating.
 
My SVMC72150 works more than 20 minutes with 150A battery current and more.
So it looks like mine 72200 should handle 16kW for few minutes constant easily.

Battery
20S29P LG MJ1

That's my baby, as you can see, controler has a lot of good cooling provided.


And here is rear: Cromotor v2 with radiators.

 
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The transistors are mountetd towards the lower side wihich is flat and has no fins.
I think the aluminium shell does not proviede enough cooling capacity for longer runs with full power, therefore I added a big aluminium sheet on the lower side as an extra heat sink.

But as you have a "light" bike , I think it will do the job, as long as you are not doing longer full throttle runs on the motorway .
 
So how much constant / burst power Sabvoton 72200 can produce? This is allegedly 200A controler!
I feel that I answered it as good as I understand it about constant power. Battery burst power is battery amps multiplied by voltage at given moment, it is easy to se on some power meter when riding. If you really want to find out what power your wheel produces than you need to put your ebike on dyno.
 
QS 260 v4, You shuold look into 3T or 3.5T versions about 13kv (not 9kv or not 10kv or not 11kv) in another words speed version, fast versions, not torque like you got which is 9kv 5T.

Do I understand corectly that QS 260 v4.
It totally contradicts my understanding about constant If it is constant than why two minutes :)
OK, you are right, when I think of burst it's usually 5-10 secounds so 5-10 minutes is almost like constant :)
 
Do I understand corectly that QS 260 v4.

OK, you are right, when I think of burst it's usually 5-10 secounds so 5-10 minutes is almost like constant :)
yes, it is V4, but it's like 273 v3 and 205 v3. There is no some technical advantage due v4 marking. It's the same motor from technical advancement perspective. It's better than V2 but it is the same as V3.
 
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