12v Denso power steering motor. What do you think?

StudEbiker

100 kW
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Apr 13, 2009
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Ashland, OR, USA
I went in to my local Goodwill this week and they literally had a pile of these motors there at $5 a pop. The guy said they had all been tested and all spun up. It felt like a nice solid motor and looked like it would have gobs of torque, so I picked up a five pack of them. I've since sold a couple of them. Before shipping them out, I decided to spin them up to just to make sure they were working and they are super quiet and VERY torquey. They only info I have found on it was in a Ebay listing and the guy said the motors have a kv around 145. It has a nice long splined output shaft, but I don't know if it is something standard or proprietary. It is sensorless, but I am fairly sure it is brushless. Anyone ever seen these before? Do you recognize the output shaft? What do you think the best way to use the motor would be? Scooter? Mid-drive? Left side drive?

denso2.jpg

denso1.jpg
 
Jtenk made the motors for the Chevey Cobalt ands other GM cars. they got sued pretty hard by GM for faulty steering motors, too.

Looks like a good little motor, but is that wire plug 2 wire? IF so it's brushed. and brushed makes more sense for a steering motor.

The shaft looks propriatary, but it also looks like it's basicly a 20mm shaft, so ignoring the grooves, you may be able to get a 20mm coupler or gear on it
 
I'd use my drill press to spin one up and see what kind of voltage it makes. If you've got a nice drill press then you should be able to pop the lid and change the belts for whatever rpm you want (within reason). :)
 
The idea is to test it as a generator so you can 'guess' at the kv and be right-close. If you see it making 12v when you spin it to 300rpm, say, then it should make it a touch over 300rpm when you feed it 12v, so it'd have a kv around 25.5.

If it's got a kv of 145 and it's a 12v motor then you're looking at 1800rpm max. Sounds plausible and likely to me, especially since you described it as torquey. :)
 
The shaft looks like a powder metal part. Interesting material usage with the stress concentrations caused by the internal splines... wonder if that was an issue?
 
It could still be brushless with only two wires, as it could have an internal controller. THere's a few radiator fan motors I've run across like that, though i don't have any of them. If it *is* brushless with internal controller, then to run above maybe 15V you'll probably have to use an external controller or modify the internal one for higher voltage (and do some cooling mods).

If it's brushed, it could be run directly on at least twice it's original voltage, and possibly many times that, as I did with some brushed axial-flux four-pole radiator fan motors for my first friction drive, and with some power chair motors on my first middrive.

I would bet on the output being a planetary gearbox, rather like a typical cordless screwdriver. Possibly multistage. It's about the right size for some of the Matex planetary modules like the ones used in some of the Currie drives, and even the metal color on the splined shaft is similar to that of the Matex planetaries I have here; Matex makes a number of modules that can all interconnect with various standard hardware they make, too.

I hate to imagine the carnage for a torquey drive like power steering on a car depending on a sintered-metal shaft, so my bet is that it is not that, just that the color and sheen resembles it.


I dont' know if it is going to be capable of continous operation at high power levels, becuase in use in a car it would probably not be operating like that, and so probably isn't designed around high duty cycle usage. Might overheat using it as an ebike motor. STill, it would be interesting to try it. I'd do it as a thru-the-BB type drive, or a jackshaft drive like my old CrazyBIke2 powerchair motor setup was. Just watch the temperature inside it.


I wish it wouldn't cost a fortune to ship them; I can think of several possibilities for experiments with them as essentially giant servo motors, as well as possibly traction motors.
 
2 or even 4 of em could power a cool drivable couch to take to burning man.
 
Dogman, you must be in bad shape, dreaming of motorizing your couch to get to Burning MAn!! :lol: That's awesome!!

It does seem like those are recall trash bin finds. I can think of a few uses for one, none involve a bicycle though. :p Gotta love the random shit you find at goodwill though!
 
A dozen of these in parallel, sure ;)

Motors like this are not rated for continuous high power output.. nor do they put out much to begin with. They are probably a stupidly low rpm wind, and being brushed, they won't take too much more voltage than designed.

I do believe that the weight per power output on a multi starter motor rig is going to be poor.
 
Would love to see the insides. ;)
 
amberwolf said:
It could still be brushless with only two wires, as it could have an internal controller. THere's a few radiator fan motors I've run across like that, though i don't have any of them. If it *is* brushless with internal controller, then to run above maybe 15V you'll probably have to use an external controller or modify the internal one for higher voltage (and do some cooling mods).

Since it's a steering servo, it needs to be reversable, so not likely to be a brushless with internal controller. I have something similar on my Honda and I'm amazed at how well it works as opposed to the old hydraulic pump setup. It has a lot of miles on it and hasn't failed yet either.

My guess is a single one will be a bit wimpy for running a bike, but it should be useful for something. That looks like it might be well suited to some kind of power tool, like a drill. Robot builders could use them. :wink: It may also be good as a wind generator if you can spin it fast enough.

Most 12v motors can handle 24v or more. Overheating is the primary limiting factor, and brushes/commutator are usually the second. My guess is the brushes will be fine at higher voltages, so as long as you keep the current reasonable it should be fine.

For a minimal assist setup, like maybe 200W, that motor might be suitable. How about a friction drive?

With a pair of motors, you could switch between series and parallel to get sort of a 'gearing' effect.
 
It should be possible to attach a belt sprocket by boring it out to the shaft diameter and using a shrink fit or set screws to hold it onto the shaft. The old Zappy motors used a roll pin that went through a cross-drilled hole to hold the sprocket (another possible approach).
 
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