18650 spot welding -how to- ULTIMATE REPOSITORY

What do others do,if anything, about spot welding fumes? I'm not sure if I'm imagining it but I think I'm getting headaches from nickel fumes- maybe it's ozone?
Dnmun once posted about toxic nickel fumes but I can't find the post...I checked some med literature but there was nothing conclusive ( in my brief search) except for increased risk of lung and other cancers in professional welders.
Any other frequent spotwelderers know anything?
I'm going to chuck a small fan in close my work piece to do some extraction.
K
 
kdog said:
What do others do,if anything, about spot welding fumes? I'm not sure if I'm imagining it but I think I'm getting headaches from nickel fumes- maybe it's ozone?
Dnmun once posted about toxic nickel fumes but I can't find the post...I checked some med literature but there was nothing conclusive ( in my brief search) except for increased risk of lung and other cancers in professional welders.
Any other frequent spotwelderers know anything?
I'm going to chuck a small fan in close my work piece to do some extraction.
K
Click to expand...

maybe it would be best to change to a safer metal like cadmium strip.

I know nickel is very nasty stuff.
I am personally allergic to it, and if i wear jeans with Ni coated brass buttons, i get weeping itchy welts where they are in contact with sweaty skin, that last for several days.
i prefer aluminium based buttons.
id be definitely getting a good fan blowing the stuff out of there.
the ozone will give you a dry throat, but i doubt headaches..
 
I've done the test once again but this time with salt, vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. You can see the result in the pictures.

The two small ones (0.1x5mm) are the same and pure nickel, the big one (0.15x8mm) has an area that under the liquid it rusts but when I pull it out the rust washes away. And is remaining only a mat grey area different than the nickel from the surface. Is this steel? Why is not remaining rusty out of the liquid?

What is the problem if I weld with that?
 

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Hey bikegeek
I had exactly the same thing. Came to the conclusion it's just inpurities in something bc the actual nickel (steel)isn't rusty. and using the strips would suggest that it is nickel bc the steel ones blow holes when being welded ( also the current carrying is good)
 
Hi Bikegeek

I experienced the same, the rust seems to wash off. My conclusion was that the rust is being generated so quickly that non of it actually adheres (sticks) to the surface of the remaining metal. I left my sample in the Hydrogen peroxide/Vinegar/salt solution for over an hour or so and it was enough to blow a hole all the way through the material! All the major corrosion only happenedat the site of the scratches I made so my conclusion is it is nickel plated steel. (there was a bit on the edges but I put that down to poor plating).

However, I'm sure the Ni plated material is ok to use for situations where:

a) You can guarantee the battery will not see excessive moisture. (I reckon an e-bike is a no no)
b) You can live with the additional (double) resistance compare to the fully pure nickel.

I'm waiting for the real stuff to arrive!

Cheers
 
Did you put in the repository this DIY Tab Welder from this guy ?

Cant beat the price, I ordered everything, all parts, PCB, chips, electrodes. I think I am all in for $100cdn. Parts from ca.mouser.com, PCB, probes etc from his website and microwave transformers from any back alley or the classifieds. Im too lazy so I bought mine from classifieds. 1200W unit for $20, probably cheaper if it was summer time and garage sales. Even if you dont have a soldering iron, those you can get for $20, buy some 63/37 solder and you are good to go. I know its most likely intimadated(sp) by most people, its very basic soldering it looks like. Through-hole is easy, its that SMT (Surface Mount) thats crazy.

No batteries to worry about, those alone are $30 used, $50 for a small new one, or $75+ for a new battery, plus the kit itself whether its DIY or prebuilt. I almost bought that one, I just did not like the fact I had to use batteries. I have no clue how it compares, but theres a not saying I can get more amps by installing an additional resistor.
 
bikegeek said:
This is how it looks after one night in the liquid. It is clear which is nickel and which iron.
Click to expand...

Yes you can see the rust now. I assume this was the same piece that was having the rust wash away by moving it?

Joss, I read in this thread that sellers of nickel sometimes don't even know if it is real nickel or nickel plated. Over in Asia they probably scam each other also and some may not know how to test for it. We are lucky to have this thread here which tells us how to check for nickel plated.

I would avoid using nickel plated. Someone put together this battery here less then a year ago and now you can see the rust forming in spots. I would never trust it as I would feel it will rust around the welds and eventually break contact with the cells.

Here is his post with pictures building the pack
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1047482#p1047482

Here you can see the rust forming on his built pack.

I'm a bit shocked that the rust formed so quickly. I wonder if he had moisture issues on his pack.

 
:shock: whats with that crinkling in the foil?

another way to test nickel would be to make 2 electrodes from pieces of nickel strip soldered to wires that lead to the + and- terminals of a small battery, 18650 for example, or dc psu.

place the anode and cathode in a small clean glass jar of vinegar with a pinch salt added.

make sure only the nickel electrodes are in contact with the electrolyte, no aligator clips etc and they dont touch eachother(wooden clothes pegs clip them to jar)

if the nickel is pure, the solution will quickly turn clear emerald green as one electode fizzez away. (nickel acetate for nickel plating copper :wink: )

if there is iron present it will make the solution dirty and brown.
 
Having read this thread there is some good info here, but I'd like to know more about the following items:

1) Plastic cell holders: I see these are common in twin and 4x5 arrangements and they clip together. The twins seem more modular, but to they clip together well enough to make an actually rigid pack? Can superglue be used to improve strength?

2) The 788 spot welders are popular - can leads with handheld electrodes be fitted in place of the fixed electrodes? This would seem to ease or enable the construction of larger packs. If so, any recommendations for good handheld electrodes?

3) Information on whether to connect cells in parallel or series first and also layout of inter-connections for optimal current sharing and current handling of the pack (this seems important when restricted to 0.1 or 0.15mm nickel strip. Low power packs seem to have a single strip tab for the main battery leads, but I've seen some constructions that brought out many connections that were then joined with thick copper wire by soldering). It would be good to know layouts that can handle 20 or 30A per cell rather than 5A.
 
Punx0r said:
Having read this thread there is some good info here, but I'd like to know more about the following items:

1) Plastic cell holders: I see these are common in twin and 4x5 arrangements and they clip together. The twins seem more modular, but to they clip together well enough to make an actually rigid pack? Can superglue be used to improve strength?
The twin ones I used from supower held together very well, no need for glue.

2) The 788 spot welders are popular - can leads with handheld electrodes be fitted in place of the fixed electrodes? This would seem to ease or enable the construction of larger packs. If so, any recommendations for good handheld electrodes?
No recommendations on electrodes but a recommendation on a better welder. The JP Welder sold by an ES member, find his JP Welder thread in the ''new items for sale'' forum.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks :) I'd suck waiting for delivery from China for holders that turned out to be no good.

I did check out the JP welder and was tempted. However, the mains-powered welder is a big advantage for me as it's something I'd expect to use over a long period but very infrequently. I know they're not great quality (much like Chinese hub motor kits...) and I'm prepared to replace components like the triac if necessary.
 
I waited for a week I think with eParcel delivery forget the name now off hand.
I bought something else though that took 2 months but I clicked on different shipping method.
I cant recall the name of the store off hand. Its like www.dx.com called fast something or other.




Fastech
 
I'm looking at my bicycle wire.
I have my bicycle motor nc 9c. rated power 1000w. controller 48V 28A. I'm using 2.5mm2 cooper wire. equivalent to 10 AWG.
Am I using too thick wire?

According to the table. awg17 1.00mm2 wire. The maximum is 19A.
Would it be recommended to use this wire to a motor 350W, controller 36V 15A? The motor running at rated power output something like 36V 9.5/10A. It is half the maximum amps.
Is it better to use AWG 18.7 Limit 15A, to not waste copper?
Is it the same recommendation with nikel strips?


Did nobuo can add different measures that do not appear?
nikel strips of:

0.2x7
0.3x7

AWG copper wires:

16,15,14,13,12,11,10,9,8,7,6,5,4

17c0mr.jpg
 
I made this mistake earlier in the thread: nickel is not ferrous but it is ferromagnetic! Also, not all ferrous metals are ferromagnetic!
 
douglashart said:
nickel is nonferrous , thus non magnetic. Put a magnet to it, if its magnetic , its steel.
Click to expand...

Right/Wrong Nickel is non ferrous but definitely ferromagnetic (is is attracted to magnets). :roll:

Please check your sources!
 
mistercrash said:
eTrike said:
Nickel is cheap, easy and corrosion resistant
Click to expand...

Zinc is corrosion resistant and a lot cheaper than Nickel. Look at the prices I posted above. It also offers less resistance than Nickel. Is there a Metallurgist in the house? :lol:
Click to expand...

Could be something to do with the Standard Electrode Potential when two dissimilar metals are connected. Metals higher in the electrochemical series displaces metals lower in the series, which means that when connecting two metals the metal with the lowest potential corrodes.
  • Nickel is -0.24V S.E.P
    Iron is -0.44
    Zinc is -0.76
Battery cases are usually made from steel, which is iron. Given that Nickel and Zinc are higher and lower than iron, respectively, they exhibit different corrosion and a (thin) zinc strip would corrode and eventually be eaten away (at an increasing rate), when welded to the steel case, because its lower SEP than iron.

Nickel however would remain unchanged, so would be more reliable, as its the relatively thick iron that is sacrificial, but theres lots of iron.
 
I received some pure nickel strip in the post yesterday so I decided to do a short video showing the corrosion performance difference between this and the steel/nickel plated version I received a few weeks ago.

https://youtu.be/1r2tkwUnNv4

...now looking forward to putting my new battery pack together!
 
Man you guys! I'm never gonna dump this kg of nickel plated...
 
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