19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

[Rix]

dont know what spam shit site this is but i will not klick twice on that crap link

you can upload on youtube without such a shit who tries on all edges to install some .exe shit

Tell us how you really feel Merlin :lol:

 

[Merlin]

yea sry i was really pissed. i dont even saw a pic or video ..just tons of sites opend and wanterd to install crazy software....

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

here an update on my conversion to 19":

First of all the Excel Takasago 19" rims are way easier to true than the "porky" Chinese ones. I did a weight comparison as well:

26" MTB 1640 grams (with brake disk)
21" Motorcycle 5850 grams (no brake disk)
19" Moped 4650 grams (no brake disk)

here a picture:


Some interesting aspects: the 19" is slightly smaller than the 26" wheel, although the 26" just has a 28mm tire.

The 2.5" width 19" tire is significantly different from the 2.75" width 21" tire. You can hardly even compare them, one looks almost double the size of the other, whereas they should be almost the same.

I have installed the Tubliss system which seems to be good. Riding is really smooth upto around 60kmh. Then the front wheel starts bouncing around. I am still investigating this. I presume I need to balance the wheel, since the rim lock is sitting in one spot, adding 50-100grams to that portion of the wheel.

Another reason could be a too high pressure in the wheel. I put in 2.8 bar (around 40PSI), which might be too much, since the bike is lighter than a moped. I tried to reduce the pressure and accidentally reduced it in the bladder (which seals the tire) and not in the tire. What an idiot I am. This happened at the office, hence I need to walk the bike to a gas station now. How annoying.

Upto 60kmh the acceleration is much better than with 21" and I can now cruise 10-15" faster (upto around 60kmh). After that the bobbing takes so much energy that even the downhill top speed is lower than before. I seem to be getting more range out of the battery as well.

 

[Rix]

The bobbing may also possibly be coming from the tire bead not being seated correctly all the way around the rim. I have encountered this quite a bit over the years. Checking for that is easy, lift tire off the ground, spin, look at from side ways angle, and see if there is a high/low spot. If there is a high/low spot, what I normally do is deflate the tire, get some soapy water, wet the area that isn't seated, and re-inflate. If this is not the case, then like you said, your tire is out of balance.

 

[furcifer]

The 2.5" width 19" tire is significantly different from the 2.75" width 21" tire. You can hardly even compare them, one looks almost double the size of the other, whereas they should be almost the same.

If I remember correctly they use the inside width, so the flare on the tread profile isn't part of the 2.75". The moped tire should be close to 2.5" with the flat sidewalls, where the motocross should be closer to about 4" (depending on the tread depth).

I think.

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

Oh that explains a lot. I should have known before. It was hard to fit almost 4" when you think you are getting 3.

I will check the bead once more, although I did already when mounting. That has been a common issue for as well.

Thx

 

[Merlin]

2.8 bar? thats around 1,8 bar more then i use
if you have tubliss, theres no reason using such high pressure.

try 1 bar. if its on the front maximum 1.5bar.

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

here my findings:

1) reducing the pressure made things worse. On top of the bouncing it induced some wobbling as well. Reduced range with reduced pressure
2) the bead was sitting perfectly
3) I bought some wheel weights and needed to add almost 6 ounces ! (ca. 150grams)

No more bouncing, completely stable and top speed is back at around 75kmh (downhill).

This weekend I will be working on the electricals (changing LCD 3 to Cycle Analyst) and possibly changing the controller from KT to Kelly. Currently the controller maxes out regarding the rpm at just above 75kmh. If I have time, then the BMS will be next (currently I just have 35Amps, which is limiting me to around 1500-1800W, depending how fresh the batteries are).

Next weekend the rear wheel is planned.

 

[Rix]

here my findings:

1) reducing the pressure made things worse. On top of the bouncing it induced some wobbling as well. Reduced range with reduced pressure
2) the bead was sitting perfectly
3) I bought some wheel weights and needed to add almost 6 ounces ! (ca. 150grams)

No more bouncing, completely stable and top speed is back at around 75kmh (downhill).

This weekend I will be working on the electricals (changing LCD 3 to Cycle Analyst) and possibly changing the controller from KT to Kelly. Currently the controller maxes out regarding the rpm at just above 75kmh. If I have time, then the BMS will be next (currently I just have 35Amps, which is limiting me to around 1500-1800W, depending how fresh the batteries are).

Next weekend the rear wheel is planned.

Damn, adding 6 ounces of wheel weights is insane. I would have tried flipping the tire around and rotating it 180 degrees before adding that much weight.

 

[ridethelightning]

Hi,

I changed from 26" MTB to 21" MC rims and tires. What I noticed is the huge difference in weight (~ 5kg per wheel, with rims, tubes and tires ) and also the reduced top speed. I was previously able to do about 70 kmh on a slight downhill, which is now down to 60-65kmh. I have the Shinko 244 (2.75 x 21), which are indeed quite wide. They look really cool (with a Lauf Carbonara fork).

Interestingly the average speed increased, since I can just go over small obstacles instead of going around them. With that the range has gotten less by 10-20% (1.5KW hub motor 14S8P - going to upgrade to 26S shortly). I usually ride 30-40km.

I would like to go a bit lighter and am hence considering 18" or 19" MC wheels (I build them myself). Most of the Conti tires listed above are only rated for 50 km/h, hence that will not work. The RF tires are good for 100 kmh, hence I might give them a try. I was also considering the Heidenau K40 or M3 tires. Does anyone have experience with Heidenau? Specifically the weights and rolling resistance (I presume the Shinko 244 have a horrible rolling resistance). The K40 should be fast for street use, but is only available in 18". I am not sure if I want to go from 21" to 18" (seems small).

Since I actively pedal, I would need a larger chainring when I go to smaller tires. I can do about 55kmh with my 52T. I found an 85T 130 BCD chainring for folding bikes. Does anyone have experience fitting something like that?

Best regards

e-bike.jpg

i have used heidenau m3 on the front in 19"*2.5, really nice tyre, light, low rolling resistance but feels secure.
heidenau k40, i have used 18" 2.5, on rear. solid, fairly heavy, low rolling resistance,firm grippy when new, but now the center of the grip has gone and slews sideways in wet on road.
i have a heidenau k39 on hand, 18*2.75 looks to be really solid and grippy on road with low resistance, quite heavy though. i never tried it but will soon.

im now full convert to the sr241 religion, 19 2.75 front, 17 2.75 rear. they rock!
great on road, grippy as hell, surprising low rolling resistance! they will take just about anything off road too. makes me ride in totally different style
they seem to last really well to boot.
there are some light moped tyres out there. i used hutchinsons vroom 16*2.5 they were nearly as light as mtb. i got them from treatland tv.
the one i have is still nailed to the rim of my 5404 with a large nail from the edge of the highwy...has sat there some 2y since the flat incident like that..i moved onto cromotors and qs :lol:
btw, id love to see a link to the tubeless kit you got.

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

Thank you for the feedback. I didn't like the rolling resistance on the 244s, but am happy with the Continental KKS 10. Low rolling resistance and much better cornering on the road.

I buy the tubeless kits on Ebay. Just search for Tubliss. You need the full kit to start with for around 90 USD. I am happy with them.

 

[DasDouble]

yea sry i was really pissed. i dont even saw a pic or video ..just tons of sites opend and wanterd to install crazy software....

Well never have had such problem with that side tho..

Watch this:

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

My conversion has been taking longer than expected. First I fried a Cycle Analyst and bought a replacement. Then I decided to keep the dirt tire on the old wheel and built up a new wheel with new 5KW motor, including statoraid and hubsinks. The dropout needed to be increased to 150mm, hence I built the following adapter:



the new adapter (7075 aluminum) is probably the strongest part of the bike now. With the statoraid and higher voltage I hope to get 8-10KW out of the motor.

I also installed a new chainring:


It looks pretty insane and is a bit too large - the chain slightly touches the seat stay. I should have taken 80T vs. the shown 85T version. With a bigger rear triangle this should not be a problem. I really did not think about clearance in this area.

A new 120A controller and 120A BMS are also installed. The bike moves, but somehow power is cuttoff when I reach about 20 amps - goes down to zero. Need to research that and hope to be riding soon.

 

[captain387]

Great chainring!!

I thought 62 tooth was pretty big and would give a pretty good cadence.

You should be able to pedal at 100 km/h.

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

ok, got it sorted out now: the controller was cutting off at 52V (undercurrent). I have increased the battery size to 26S6P and now it works very well.

The power is insane (150NM torque), which meant that I did an uncontrolled wheelie at around 20kmh. Still recovering from the bruises, but very happy.

 

[Jamil.Siddiqi]

I was looking at the Heidenau's as well. The 20 inch size stopped me: not too much choice of rims.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

anyone looking for professional moto-bike wheel builds, josh from motoped/surron forums now has DOT rims, etc..
search ebay for "wickedwheelwerks" : https://www.google.com/search?q=wickedwheelwerks%20ebay
also does custom wheel builds (but not hub motors due to shipping weight etc)..

 

[madin88]

anyone looking for professional moto-bike wheel builds, josh from motoped/surron forums now has DOT rims, etc..
search ebay for "wickedwheelwerks" : https://www.google.com/search?q=wickedwheelwerks%20ebay
also does custom wheel builds (but not hub motors due to shipping weight etc)..

Nice to see that John (Holmes Hobbies) is back with offering professional built wheels
The SurRon hub looks sturdy and it would be good to see it available as single part for custom wheel builds.

 

[efMX Trials Electric Freeride]

anyone looking for professional moto-bike wheel builds, josh from motoped/surron forums now has DOT rims, etc..
search ebay for "wickedwheelwerks" : https://www.google.com/search?q=wickedwheelwerks%20ebay
also does custom wheel builds (but not hub motors due to shipping weight etc)..

Nice to see that John (Holmes Hobbies) is back with offering professional built wheels
The SurRon hub looks sturdy and it would be good to see it available as single part for custom wheel builds.

Josh, not John .. no relation to holmes hobbies..
(Holmes maybe too busy for wheel building)..

https://www.ebay.com/usr/wickedwheelwerks

 

[Jestronix]

For what it's worth, I've been running a 26" bicycle rim with a hookworm for 4-5 years , same tyre , no punctures , all off-road with 8-10kw. No slipping on the rim, I run low pressure to keep traction and smooth out the bumps. Even in wet weather it's solid, hookworms have proven for me that at 8-10kw there's no need for a moto. My rim is pretty solid and getting the hookworms on or off are a tight fit. I wouldn't say I'm light on the throttle either, with 1000klms of bush trails and some solid wtf moments where I swore the rim should have bailed. I ride some pretty angry gravel roads too, so far all good. Other tyres I used to get endless punctures, who would have thought a street tyre would have worked so well. Full mud conditions or super steep hills is where a moto would shine. And yeh I have some noisy spokes so it's not bullet proof. But weight vs power on a mxus 3k it's worked well.

 

[litespeed]

That is a pretty awesome testimonial. I never had good luck with bicycle tires when I ran them....twice I had to do the walk of shame. That was also when I ran smaller lighter motors, BMC geared, xlyte 40XX and MXUS. When I went to a QS205 I also went straight to 17” and will never go back. The 3.00 Shinko 241 tire is just amazing as far as traction goes on ALL surfaces. Did a matching 19” front as well. I can tell you that not a single time in a couple/few thousand miles has my back or front end every did anything not expected on any surface. When I ran bike knobby tires 2.8 I had the front push or the rear come around on hard surfaces......nothing make me pucker up tighter than than when it’s unexpected. I’m pushing 14.5KW but only for short durations......I’m not in that look at me part of my life any longer.

Second part for me was wear. I was wearing out $80 bike dirt tires in short time. One $35 shinko tire after all these miles and it still doesn’t really show wear......I’m thinking they may out live the bike/me!

In my opinion once you get to a QS205 size motor or bigger that motorcycle rims/tires are a must for safety (usually getting to 80+ pound bicycle....mine is in the 120 pound range with 6’-4” 205 lb me on top!), the bigger tire softens the impact from the big heavy motor and they last for-EVER. I plan on buying a factory built Trex/Specialized/Hiabike full suspension plus mid drive to ride with my wife. On that bike I’ll keep the bike tires since most are under 55 pounds and I don’t feel really needed.

Enjoy the ride.

Tom

 

[Rix]

True statements Tom, I agree with 100% of what you said.

 

[DogDipstick]

My contribution: Aug 2019.

Sur Ron 19" x 1.4 alu rim
Sur Ron hub, 110mm x 20 mm, 3mm hub holes, 5 mm offset,
11g spokes, 212mm from Treatland.tv w/ nipps 2.9 mm
(EDIT: I eventually went with Sapim Stainless 12g all around.. fit better, looked better, and tensed better.. from Yojimbos Garage.. little more expensive)
(lets face it, this is a MC ebike ( qs 205 bike), not a 13g spoke ebike)
Duro HF319 2.5" x 19" street classic MC tire, 4lbs...
9.7 lbs total. I will update when I get the rear done. I'm proud of myself for the first time, doing this. Thank you all for the wonderful input and making the knowledge available for the hobbyist like me.

 

[The Toecutter]

im now full convert to the sr241 religion, 19 2.75 front, 17 2.75 rear. they rock!
great on road, grippy as hell, surprising low rolling resistance! they will take just about anything off road too. makes me ride in totally different style
they seem to last really well to boot.

How do these Shinko SR241 and SR244 19x2.75" tires compare to say, the Schwalbe Marathon Plus 26x1.75" in terms of rolling resistance? I'm not hugely concerned about weight, but rolling resistance coefficient is critical for my application.

I've been looking for a set of moped tires for my velomobile(to be converted to electric) that have a low enough rolling resistance to still be pedaled almost as easily as a normal unmotorized velomobile when the motor is disabled, at least at a steady speed on flat ground(there's no getting around the inertia losses from added weight during acceleration, which I can live with). I have found a few potential candidates for 20" bicycle wheels/16" motorcycle wheels, such as the Mitas MC2 16x2.25" or the Schwalbe Energizer Solar 16x2.4", but I need something suited for replacing a 26" rear bicycle wheel, in case a 20" rear bicycle wheel happens to be too small(and using a 26" rear wheel would allow me to bypass the need for a Schlumpf HS drive to get the high end gearing I need). WC wheel/tire is smaller than a 26" bicycle wheel/tire, it's not near as large of a size reduction for my drive wheel as going to 16"MC/20"BMX.

 

[ridethelightning]

Schwalbe Marathon Plus has got to be very low resistance looking at the treat pattern.
but not too sure how good they would be in tussock grass