19" Motorcycle Wheels vs 26" Bicycle Wheels (rim and tires)

richdeloup said:
Rix said:
The 18x1.4 black US Racing Boy rim is lighter than my 17x1.4 prowheel racing rim, .
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Do you think 18" M/B rims are probably still the way to go if using fat hub motors?

Here's a pic of another 22" rim (completely different manufacturer) with a 2.25 scooter tyre, showing bead fitment. This set up is cheap, however 2.25 is the max this rim will take.
Could be good for narrow hub motors/lightweight builds?
Click to expand...

Rich, no doubt about it, your 22"BMX rim running 22.5-18 tires is the best set up for light weight and a Motorcycle tire option. I think that optimal tire widths for high powered offroad ebikes are in the 2.75-3.00 wide range. I am always searching for a lighter rim option. A while back, I found a companty that makes 1,20x18 aluminum rims, Borianni America. I would say that any tire up to 2.75-18 would fit on that rim, but not bigger.
 
Could you give us the rim width and bare rim weights?

BTW, scooter tires are typically 10-12". 16-19" are moped/motorcycle tires. :wink:
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Yep no problem, I'll get some more info posted this week.

'Scooter' has sort of become the name for anything that isn't a motorbike (well where I live anyhow) but ye, you're technically right. I suppose most of us are building mopeds as we have pedals on them and larger wheels. I haven't actually heard anyone say the world moped in the UK for years, probably because there aren't many left. Hmm can I get used to the fact that I'm building mopeds? :oops:
 
Rix said:
Since we are on the subject of 18" MC rims, here is a pic of a US Racing Boy Rim 18x1.4 (black) and one the 18x1.4 rim(grey) got from JRH. I bought a couple of the grey ones and am currently running the other one on my Fighter with the 4080. Last pic is of a 17x1.4, 18x1.4 and 19x1.4, for size perspectives. The 18x1.4 black US Racing Boy rim is lighter than my 17x1.4 prowheel racing rim, and is the lightest rim I have came across. My method of weighing these was not super accurate, bathroom scales, but if the scales show that the Racing boy rim is the only rim I have that is just barely under 2 pounds.
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are you able to tell us what the weight of the 18x1,4 racing boy rim is and the 18x1,4 JRH? They look interesting and spoke angle should not be a big problem..
hm you better place it on a kitchen scale if you have one and if it is capeable of that load :)
 
Ok, so a fairly but not exact measurement is 29-466. Ill get the exact ETRTO from the manufacture.
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Well so much for my 'fairly exact' metal tape measure for circumference and mathematics on a built up wheel! The manufacturers ETRTO is 457mm

They also said this
22” tyres only come in 457mm BSD
(no sketchy tolerances like 20” market)
This allow a compact sidewall height
on the rim, leaving more depth in
extrusion chamber profile.
Also more scope for spoke length
inaccuracy (your spokes could be
+8 /-5 mm out and they’d still fit).

Exact Weight to follow...
 
Rich, no doubt about it, your 22"BMX rim running 22.5-18 tires is the best set up for light weight and a Motorcycle tire option. I think that optimal tire widths for high powered offroad ebikes are in the 2.75-3.00 wide range
Click to expand...

These rims are built for a 2.29" tyre. There is scope to go fatter but I'm not too sure how much by? A 2.75" seems to fit pretty well to me, however i'm no expert in squeezing fatter tyres that attended onto rims. Could anyone tell me if there is a general rule, i.e 10-20% fatter is ok but nothing above? Or is it just a case of, if you can fit it on and it holds then its good to go?

Rich
 
The 22" bicycle rims will be a good choice for regular wheels, but not so good on hub motor wheels. One reason to switch to moped rims is because the nipple seats are angled, which allows for much better tension without bending spokes at the nipple for 1 cross or greater. Going back to a bicycle rim negates every mechanical advantage, except for your ability to run 18" moped tires.


If you want to continue using the bicycle rims, don't use radial lacing. Instead, drill out a second set of holes in the flange so you can do 0.5 cross lacing.
 
Going back to a bicycle rim negates every mechanical advantage, except for your ability to run 18" moped tires.
Click to expand...

Agreed, however I would have thought that for the lightest wheel build on a lightweight hub motor, using thinner high quality spokes, would have some advantages?
 
Lightweight is no advantage when your spokes break from an ill laced wheel. The advantage to moped parts is first and foremost increased reliability. Lighter weight is a great goal, but your choice to use a bicycle rim with large hubmotor MUST be met with modifying the hub insertion points so the nipples are within the angle that your rim is designed for. Otherwise we can put a 1000 mile limit on the spokes life. They will start breaking at the threads if your wheel has enough tension. They will start breaking at the heads if the tension is not high enough. I've seen it so many times over the years, it is kinda freaky how consistent spokes fail at 1000 miles when they are bent at the nipple or undertensioned.
 
Ok good to know John. I'm just throwing it out here as an alternative and I'm 100% sure that you know more about this than me.

I think there may be a few different uses/markets though. For example this wheel is going on a carbon suspension bike with reinforcement everywhere and custom dropouts. It will have an internal 24s 5000 pack, so is hardly a commuter, moped or motorbike replacement. However I still don't like getting flats when going fast so wish to use motorcycle tyres. I doubt if i'll put 1000 miles on this bike before it either breaks or i'm onto another build.

I think most on this thread are probably interested in distance builds, with big battery packs and everything indestructible and therefore aren't too concerned about shaving a few grams off their wheel weight. My commute is less than 5 miles and I like to be able to pick my bike up and throw it in the back of the car, on a train or lug it up 4 flights of stairs to my apartment.
 


Okay, I've decided not to peruse this as any sort of business venture, however here it is and happy to help anyone who wants to go down this route...

I think it sort of makes sense if it's looked upon as a replacement rim for something like the e-bike kits that a lot of us started off on. Admitted that spoke angle isnt good, however I ran 20" cheap and nasty kit rims for years with no real problems (apart from flats). This just gives the opportunity to boost up to around 24" wheel height whilst using a more durable and safe tyre.

Rich
 
The 22" bicycle rims will be a good choice for regular wheels, but not so good on hub motor wheels. One reason to switch to moped rims is because the nipple seats are angled, which allows for much better tension without bending spokes at the nipple for 1 cross or greater. Going back to a bicycle rim negates every mechanical advantage, except for your ability to run 18" moped tires
Click to expand...

To add to this, I'd like to say that although motorcycle rims do give you more choice of spoke angles, if the rim you buy does not have quite the right angles for your hub motor, a bent motor cycle spoke will be more likely to catastrophically fail then a bent bicycle spoke on account of how much more motorcycle spokes have to be under tension. For the pauper sector of endless sphere, this means it is harder to buy a second hand motorcycle rim and just hope that you can get away with bending the spokes alittle. Actually, there are no off the shelf 19" motorcycle rims (at least in the uk) that just happen to have the right nipple angles for the crown or cromotor... so you have to get one with spoke holes custom drilled to the right angles (completely excluding the pauper crowd).
 




The second picture is a bit pointless, i wanted the '3.00x20' to be visible, but the 20 has been cut out.

To add to the 'bicycle rims motorcycle tyres' digression, here is a 24" bicycle rim (halo sas, nice strong downhil rim) with a very rare 20" motorcycle tyre. 20" motorcycle tyres are a vintage standard, so you have to pay alittle more for them. This one is called a mitas h02.

Richdeloup and myself come at this issue from a slightly impurer angle then that considered by the rest of this thread, see all we need is the little 'e' written on motorcycle tyres, so we can legally have our overpowered ebikes riding 50mph on her majesties roads here in great britain.

But though i started out just needing that e-mark, i came to find that motorcycle tyres really are fantastic compared to bicycle tyres. They last for 1000s of miles, the tread barely wears down after years and years of use. They dont puncture. There are no standards regulating the rubber of bicycle tyres, its just whatever garbage they can get away with.
 
johnrobholmes said:
If you want to continue using the bicycle rims, don't use radial lacing. Instead, drill out a second set of holes in the flange so you can do 0.5 cross lacing.
Click to expand...

+1
 
warrah said:
To add to this, I'd like to say that although motorcycle rims do give you more choice of spoke angles, if the rim you buy does not have quite the right angles for your hub motor, a bent motor cycle spoke will be more likely to catastrophically fail then a bent bicycle spoke on account of how much more motorcycle spokes have to be under tension. For the pauper sector of endless sphere, this means it is harder to buy a second hand motorcycle rim and just hope that you can get away with bending the spokes alittle. Actually, there are no off the shelf 19" motorcycle rims (at least in the uk) that just happen to have the right nipple angles for the crown or cromotor... so you have to get one with spoke holes custom drilled to the right angles (completely excluding the pauper crowd).
Click to expand...


The pauper can redrill the hub flanges to work with bicycle rims too. I got tired of modifying hubs and rims enough to just get 17s and 19s made properly for the Ebike market. Plus it is kinda nice having my name on my rims 8)
 
Have you got a link for those tyres?

Wold look good on my Halo 24" rims.
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http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3-00-20-Mitas-H-02-64Q-Universal-/281070680283?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item41711e38db

There you go sacko.

Also your rims look delicious holmes, do you do international shipping?
 
Yes we do ship international. Been a while on it so I don't remember costs, you could email us through the website and my worker can estimate shipping if you want.
 
sacko said:
Have you got a link for those tyres?

Would look good on my Halo 24" rims.
Click to expand...
I have a sun double wall 24" rim on my rear wheel and you are telling me that this 20" mc tyre will fit?
Thats just awesome
Darren
 
I have a sun double wall 24" rim on my rear wheel and you are telling me that this 20" mc tyre will fit?
Thats just awesome
Darren
Click to expand...


Hopefully. Check the sun rim you have is a nice wide one. I'll try to do what richdeloup has done, supply full details, dig up the ETRTO and all that. For now all i can tell you is it was a random experiment that has been working for me so far as a front wheel.
 
Just bought a pair of the Mitas H02 tyres, cheers for the link. 2 for £111 delivered.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/271444496515?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&var=570302249223&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

You running bike or scooter tubes?
 
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