1969 Raleigh Sports Restoration/ Ebike Build

If you ever get the urge to bring a neglected SLA battery back to life, don't leave it on a 50 amp charger for ten hours... Unless you're OK with a sulfur smoke spewing, side bulging pile of useless lead & plastic.

Hell, a $10,000 dual sport motorcycle is starting to look like a reasonable investment, now!
 
It all began for me about 30 years ago before there was much Internet. I was contemplating using an automobile starter motor when I received a catalog from Hosfelt Electronics that had some very nice Pittman servo motors at a good price. I also found a heavy duty 12v motor that I tried for a while, but the smaller Pittman motor was way better overall. My first ebike version used three of them with a chain snaking its way though their sprockets on its way to a gearbox I got from another paper electronics parts catalogue. Back in those days, orders were placed by phone to toll-free telephone numbers. And in those days, I knew of no availability of ready made ebike parts. Now I just continue with making everything from scratch to make things that turn out pretty unique I guess.

That was s good idea to place those bolts in front of the axles.

I was pretty recently looking at scooters as an alternative to a motorcycle. Motorcycles indeed seem pretty pricey. But the neighborhood isn't very conducive to having something uniquely nice outside all the time.
 
OK, so if I spring for the LiFePO4 battery pack, is it a given that it will include a balancing circuit of some kind? Would that go for the China made packs as well? I notice some come with a separate balancing device wired in with a bunch of leads, and others have nothing like that at all, but still claim to have a BMS.
 
That balancer is like the ones that I got with my thundersky-type LiFePO4 battery. It is a twelve volt battery and one of those get fastened across each individual cell terminal. One thing that I noticed about them is that if the battery is idle for a long time it is better to remove them from the battery since they present a slight drain on it. I bought my battery about five years ago, and charged it up back then and it has been holding the charge pretty well with those detached while I try to get the latest ebike version done and operating. Unfortunately, I can't figure out where they went after I took them off!

On my latest ebike version, I hope to not need those shunt-type balancers and have a charger circuit do the balancing, somewhat more like the thing that you mentioned with the extra wires.

A BMS is very important because besides it being the case that overcharging is bad for a LiFePO4 cell, I'd say that over discharging one is even worse.
 
I can't believe I'm seriously considering dropping $700 for a battery for this money pit, but it seems like the smartest alternative to the cheap China battery crap shoot. I would puke if I threw $500 at it, only to have that pack die from over discharge, poor BMS or simply inferior components to start with. I'll have no recourse if I'm sitting with a handful of lithium scrap a year, or even a few months from now.

So far, it looks like PingBattery is the goto place for reliable lithium systems. I've got a shopping cart loaded with a 36V 20Ah V5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack, including High Rate BMS: (+$26.00), and Upgrade to 5A Charger: (+$44.00)). I understand the $109 shipping charge for a heavy hunk of HazMat. The weight is only 16.5 lbs and size is 10.8 x 4.1 x 6 inches, which is perfect. It can also handle Suitable Wattage of Motor: up to 1200 Watt, 600-1000 Watt suggested. Since my motor is 1,000 Watt, that specification is huge! All I need now is a coupon code, a kick in the ass to pull the trigger or better alternative. Damn, that's a LOT of money! :shock:
 
I'd like you to hold off ordering for a bit until other people can throw in more thoughts! I've never used a lithium battery yet myself, and hope for more guidance in your situation.
 
Happy to oblige, I'm not flush with cash, that's for sure.

Last night I was thinking about jousting with cars again, (haven't ridden seriously in a while) and I'm not thrilled with the thought. I enjoy an early, Sunday morning ride to pick up odds & ends at Walmart or bagels, seven miles from here. No traffic to speak of and I can take my time and enjoy it. Otherwise, around here, traffic is ludicrous, and I'm sure you already know of the ignorant comments like, "Get on the sidewalk." etc. Not to mention soccer moms in their SUVs, blabbing on cell phones and texting. When I ride to or from work, it's on high alert with adrenaline pumping, all business and little pleasure.

I figure on a motorcycle, it's not as bad, since you can easily keep up with, or get out in front of traffic. I guess you can't let your guard down either, but it's got to be better. Not being able to jump on and off sidewalks is the trade off for me. That, and the extreme cost of the bike for a few months use.

I do have a little concern about Ping's prices. The "upgrade" to the 5 Amp charger is $44.00. Why so much? They sell that charger for $57.00 and the 2.5 Amp charger for $33.00. That's a $24.00 difference, not $44.00. I don't see any viable coupons anywhere, but I'm sure some exist. With my luck, a hundred dollar promo will pop up right after I make the purchase!
 
The promos coming after we buy seems to happen way too often!

I keep getting nostalgic for my Yamahopper. That thing was fun. Alas, that was a different era, and I was young!

I like the deal for the 2.5 amp one better if there is enough time for that. I would think the 5 amp one would permit more flexibility and convenience though.
 
The Honda's a great moto but you can't park it in most living rooms. Plus, you'll need operator/vehicle license and insurance. And if you're not very experienced riding street motos best look into rider MSF training or a lot of luck and good insurance.

Majority eBikes around here quickly lose the "bicycle" element. Folks stuffing 3-10kW motors into frames that were meant to be pedaled mutate the idea into some weird hybrid mini-motorcycle instead of a bicycle that can perform similar to how top athletes pedal. Yet, still be able to lift up stairs, carry on public transportation, apartments, etc.

I do it to some extent. But coming from an extensive moto background, I also better recognize the point at which it's best to go moto...

There's always Zero motorcycles but 3-4x the purchase price of the Honda.
 
Every point you made is true, and your advice to take the Safety Training Course is a must. But, I've got to cut my losses on this endeavor. And, I have no doubt it is at least as dangerous as a motorcycle... especially the way it's configured now. Way too flimsy and top heavy. I'm 75% sure it's over. Only 50% sure I'm getting the Honda. 100% sure I love riding!
 
I'm adding to an existing thread for quick reference.

After abandoning the old Raleigh, I bought a Yamaha FZ07 and not only learned to ride it, but became a friggin hooligan! After a couple years I sold it, because I just knew I'd be ticketed real soon. I had been stopped twice and let go with warnings, so I didn't want to push my luck. I'd leave work everyday, swearing to myself I'd take it easy, but two minutes later I'd be twisting the throttle and not let up till I was home five miles later.

The adrenaline rush from that bike was intoxicating. I really don't miss riding, since I only commute, but I do miss that acceleration. I'm not one to just ride for the sake of riding. The bike and my car are merely tools to get me from point A to point B ASAP.

I tried using Milwaukee cordless tool batteries on the Raleigh last week, but it would only get up to 24MPH and still has poor brakes. Acceleration is a joke. What I'm here now to learn is: How can I buy or build a VERY fast ebike, that's maneuverable and sturdy? I'm thinking 20-24" "banana bike" or stretched beach cruiser. 72volt or more, and not a lot of range is needed. No less than 50MPH capable and the faster it can reach that speed the better. I want to sit low in the bike, yet sit upright. I like the idea of a mid drive, to leverage the gears, which I'd prefer to be internal. But, I hear the hub motors are more powerful. How about using a hub motor in a mid drive?

I'm kicking around buying an old moped and converting it, since they're beefier, but they still sit the rider a little higher than I'd like, unless I could rework the seat location. Anyway, that's where I'm at now, and still researching. I figured you guys could give me a link or two to builds similar to what I'm trying to achieve.

TIA, John
 
Well, if you're looking for a fast bike that might be able to survive those speeds, and be safe enough to ride at them, and can safely decelerate from those speeds, there's a lot of Stealth Bomber and Fighter threads, and the various "enduro" clones of those, and the like. Complete DIY stuff like John in CR's bikes. Posts by MadRhino.

Those will help tell you what you'll need to do it. Then you can figure out how to either lower those frames to what you want, or to build the frame you want with those things in mind.

But it'll cost you as much as or more than a motorcycle to do it, most likely. Not needing a lot of range brings the cost down some, but probably not all that much since you need performance from the battery pack it may have to be bigger than you need to supply that.

Since it's something you're worried about, it is also much more likely to get you a ticket than the motorcycle would (because it's highly likely that wherever you are located, 20-28mph is the maximum allowed speed for them, and there are probably also power restrictions (though those are much less likely to be enforced as long as speeds are kept below whatever the limit for bicycles is).


If it's just the acceleration you're after, you can get that in a slower bike, if necessary by adding a speed limiter to keep you "under the radar".

My SB Cruiser trike, despite it's weight, can accelerate from 0-20MPH in under 4 seconds. I'm testing a controller now that once it's tuned to the rightside motor, should be able to take a second off of that at least, and is silent in driving the motor. If I had two of those... ;)
 
First of all, my condolences about your dog. Breaks my heart.

And, thank you so much for the input. I grasp every bit of it. I've certainly seen the $10K Stealth stuff... Sheesh. And, speaking of stealth, I intend to be a little more stealthy on the bike than I was on the motorcycle. I'll be on the sidewalk when it suits me, but when I am in traffic, I'd like to be able to scoot away from cars as quickly as possible.

Just watched a YouTube video that featured a Dualtron II EX that can do 40MPH with 50 mile range. It's a damn skateboard with a handle! It's "only" $2,000, so it seems possible a bike could be built for close to that. I was thinking under $3,000 for something decent with 15 mile range or so.

Still weighing my options. Actually, I think this planning is a lot of the fun in building the bike. Once you start buying parts it gets a little anxious.
 
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