2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[cwah]

I'd like to replicate what I currently have with my BBS02 without the chain maintenance (quick wear and tear).

I actually only need 2 speeds (or maybe 3) with my BBS. The low speed high torque for traffic jam (15mph). Medium speed most of the time (20-25mph). And high speed when I have long straight road. (25-30mph).

At low speed, it accelerate really well and it's perfect when I cycle around central london with tons of red lights.

With a Q128H, I would have either the speed, or the torque, which is quite annoying.


If I set it to low speed manually, I am supposing it would replicate the one I have from my BBS02? Low speed for traffic jam at 15mph and high speed for other time at 25mph?

ps: Bmsbattery only have the Q128H at 201RPM which is too low for me. Furthermore, it's a screw on wheel and I have so much pain removing them I decided to switch all to cassette.

 

[menvert]

I tried 12S on my last 36v controller. It worked fine.

Xiongda offer two controllers. The Li Shui has the manual change switch. I have the Kunteng Sinewave 48v one, which only auto-changes on level 5. Level 6 is fixed low gear. On level 5, it has plenty of power, so it only changes down on very steep hills. I'm quite heavy. With you on it, Cwah, I can't see it ever changing down, so it doesn't make any sense to get this motor other than for its quietness. You should try the Q128H, which is like a bigger version of the Q100H, so it should have more torque and the same speed. The 48v Xiongda does about 23mph on the road.

I must say I find it pretty disappointing that they are stopping to provide the HAL switch on the KT. My KT controller would be useless for my riding [heavy accelerator use] style if I didn't have the switch, Auto just doesn't work usefully, but I switch into low a few times during my commute, especially the hairpin that goes up the 20+% hill where I basically have to climb from standstill (10kmh is nice)

Though TBH though I'd go with the Li Shui next time anyway, as it changes gear that much quicker, and only uses speed as the change point so would actually suit my riding, if only they did it in 48v too...

If I set it to low speed manually, I am supposing it would replicate the one I have from my BBS02? Low speed for traffic jam at 15mph and high speed for other time at 25mph?
ps: Bmsbattery only have the Q128H at 201RPM which is too low for me. Furthermore, it's a screw on wheel and I have so much pain removing them I decided to switch all to cassette.

This is more or less how I use mine, stay in high most of the time, only on hills or when I am on the footpath full of people do I use Low, so it may be suitable for you, though as d8veh suggested you will probably be losing some top speed, and generally not the same power curve as the single speed... I don't think you can get a cassette XD though? might have to go front wheel...
I suspect if you have a light setup, pedal a fair bit and get say a 24" model in a 700c It is quite likely you'll get that experience.
The only thing I find is if I am amongst people going 5-10kmh I use H anyway as PAS 1 in Low has too much acceleration, in H I don't have to ride the brakes to avoid running into people so it is very torquie

 

[cwah]

This is more or less how I use mine, stay in high most of the time, only on hills or when I am on the footpath full of people do I use Low, so it may be suitable for you, though as d8veh suggested you will probably be losing some top speed, and generally not the same power curve as the single speed... I don't think you can get a cassette XD though? might have to go front wheel...
I suspect if you have a light setup, pedal a fair bit and get say a 24" model in a 700c It is quite likely you'll get that experience.
The only thing I find is if I am amongst people going 5-10kmh I use H anyway as PAS 1 in Low has too much acceleration, in H I don't have to ride the brakes to avoid running into people so it is very torquie

Torquie does ring many good bells to me.

Currently my BBS02 is doing a very good job on my 700c little road bike. Chain maintenance is my key annoyance with the motor. I already killed 2 chains. I think I kill a chain every few hundred miles
I'm expecting to change the cassette in not too long time either. Hopefully the chainring should still work fine.

My BBS02 can easily follow footpath at low speed with throttle at the right power. And torque on 700c wheel is not too bad when it's on lowest gears, I can't do wheelie like with my 2500KW dahon, but it's doing good job. I can start quick on red light and that's what I need.

If the xiondga can do that, allow me to start fast on red lights. Then for some road maintain 25mph. That's all I ask for

 

[d8veh]

Today I wiped out my 48V Xiongda. I slipped on some ice, the bike went down and wore through the motor wires. I have it stripped down now to do the difficult repair. I'll use a guard over the wires in future.

In the meantime, I reinstalled a 36v one with the 48v controller and battery. It can still climb really well in low gear, but lacks the oomph in level 5. It feels over-geared compared with the 48v one. On the plus side, it's gone totally silent just like the 48v one, so this must be due to the Kunteng sinewave controller. I've used other sine-wave controllers on other bikes that made the motors a bit quieter, but nothing like this one. I'll post some photos when I do the repair.

 

[docnjoj]

Today I wiped out my 48V Xiongda. I slipped on some ice, the bike went down and wore through the motor wires. I have it stripped down now to do the difficult repair. I'll use a guard over the wires in future.

In the meantime, I reinstalled a 36v one with the 48v controller and battery. It can still climb really well in low gear, but lacks the oomph in level 5. It feels over-geared compared with the 48v one. On the plus side, it's gone totally silent just like the 48v one, so this must be due to the Kunteng sinewave controller. I've used other sine-wave controllers on other bikes that made the motors a bit quieter, but nothing like this one. I'll post some photos when I do the repair.

I'm sorry about your motor. Are you OK?
Please, please take pictures of your wire repair. I may need to do one too if my wires were damaged by the gear puller. I think I repaired them with nail polish and silicone, but need to finish the motor to test. I had to buy a carbide grinding bit to get the last screw out of the clutch. Tomorrow will be D-day.

Thanks
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

OK I got that screw out with a small carbide cutter. Well I used to be an Oral Surgeon so I should be able to handle small carbide cutters! Anyhoo, I can now reassemble the motor and see what happens. I am going to order another one just to see if it holds up for more than 500 miles. I need the pictures to see how the clutch goes back together, and of course I did not bookmark them. Time to look theough 36 pages of Xiongda. Story of my life.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

Well my xiongDa is back together and tomorrow we test it. Since I nicked the wires at the axle opening and tried to repair it either the motor will work, or not. Luckily I have the older KT controller that did not shift properly as the mule in case sparks fly. Then I have a parts motor and will order 1 more since I really like it and need the freewheel to practice pedaling without power. My wife and our good friend are forcing me to walk daily and let me tell you, it sucks. At least biking is fun. Wish me luck.
otherDoc

 

[docnjoj]

It's alive! The motor turns and apparently my fix to the nicked wires worked, at least for now. It rotates at both fast and slow speeds and the controller did not short out! Yahoo. Tomorrow it goes back on the trike and road test if not too late (dark). I will still probably order another so this one can be backup and for parts.
Stay tuned for road test tomorrow or Wed. Also I have 2 6s 16000 ma lipos to prepare since my A123 pack cannot make our full 20 miles any more. I need to take it off the trike and test each cell, since I have 2 extra. I will do anything to cut back on everyday walks! Walking really sucks for exercise even if it is good for me.
otherDoc

 

[menvert]

It's alive! The motor turns and apparently my fix to the nicked wires worked, at least for now. It rotates at both fast and slow speeds and the controller did not short out! Yahoo. Tomorrow it goes back on the trike and road test if not too late (dark). I will still probably order another so this one can be backup and for parts.
Stay tuned for road test tomorrow or Wed. Also I have 2 6s 16000 ma lipos to prepare since my A123 pack cannot make our full 20 miles any more. I need to take it off the trike and test each cell, since I have 2 extra. I will do anything to cut back on everyday walks! Walking really sucks for exercise even if it is good for me.
otherDoc

Yay, good news.
Oh, I noticed HK now have the 6s 16000's in stock in AU too, I think I'll have to get 2x as I missed out last time.
Finding a charger that will charge them fast enough (like 0.5 or 1c) is proving hard/expensive though.... being LiPo's I don't really want to have to leave them overnight to charge, so parallel charging would have to be at least 16A
But with them I won't have to charge my Lefopo4's at work, they'll do the whole 36k return trip, and I agree walking's not nearly as fun as biking

 

[docnjoj]

Well the rebuild seems to be holding up, but it has been too cold to ride these weeks, so walking (Yuk!) as taken over for now. I have written to Yona about my desire to get a 2nd motor and use the rebuild as backup. No answer, and I suspect Chinese New Year. No problem, I can wait.
otherDoc

 

[d8veh]

She's enjoying her new year break at the moment. I guess you'll get a reply as soon as they're back.

 

[spinningmagnets]

There hasn't been much posted about the FRONT-wheel Xiongda, and I personally believe that the 48V X 15A = 720W power level is perfect for a "street legal" USA system, so...I bought a front Xiongda with the narrower 100mm V-brake sideplate (disc is 10mm wider).

The arrow in the pic (the large arrow that is cast into the motor shell) shows the direction of spin, so the potential conflict is fitting the hub on the left side. This is NOT likely to be an issue with he rear mounts. There is actually air-space there, but I will add a common-width of washer to space it a couple mm extra. I had a bike nearby with the cheap Walmart front suspension (which "looks like" a tube with pinched tips for drop-outs), and this hub cannot come close to fitting that. so just be aware.

I tried a 2-cross pattern, and it looked acceptable when finished, however there was some spoke bending right at the nipple that was concerning. I have been told that the eyelets in the rim can be drilled at a slight angle to help the nipple seat stright onto the spoke threads, plus Polyax nipples are supposed to allow more angle on the nipple without drilling the eyelet. Now I want to try a one-cross, and I have ordered Polyax nipples, plus...the 14g spoke heads were fairly loose in the Xiongda flange holes, so I will order butted 13/14 spokes (which have a slightly thicker neck right at the spoke head/elbow).

I will not order double-butted. They are advertised to have the two ends at the thickness you need, but thinner in the middle to save weight. I suspect a thicker spoke at the nipple would make the spoke angle bending worse. I believe the 14g spokes are strong enough if you use a quality spoke, and a thicker spoke would have nipple-angle issues. However, the spoke head could be as thick as 12g (if that existed). In a couple of weeks, I should have an opinion on a front Xiongda with butted 13g/14g spokes using polyax nipples, and a one-cross pattern.

Single-butted 13/14 ga spokes are $1 each? Yikes! http://www.wheelbuilder.com/sapim-single-butted-spokes/

 

[chas58]

How cool is that?
Thanks for posting!

 

[Ykick]

single-butted 13/14 ga spokes are $1 each? Yikes! http://www.wheelbuilder.com/sapim-single-butted-spokes/

Danscomp http://www.danscomp.com/shop-PARTS/group/BMX+Spokes.html - 50 cents each + $5-6 s/h. Gotta call, they have length limitations but they've rolled me Q100CST 1-cross.

 

[d8veh]

I've done 2500 miles with my two Xiongdas fitted with cheap 14g spokes from Ebay. I've done lots of bumps and jumps, plus I weigh 100kg, and I've not even had one come loose.

 

[spinningmagnets]

I was very pleased with my Danscomp.com order of straight-gauge 14G spokes with brass nipples. They have double-butted 14/15ga, but no 13/14ga single butted. I may just keep the 14ga 2-cross set-up since I will likely sell this at cost after testing. If I was certain of keeping it (I have a half-dozen projects to get too...it's getting cluttered here), I would go for the stainless $1/ea single-butted 13/14 Sapims.

 

[Ykick]

I've made 5 orders for 13/14 ga butted spokes from Danscomp. Not listed in catalog, gotta call and ask.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Oh!...thanks!

BE AWARE IF YOU ORDER A DIFFERENT RIM, IT MAY REQUIRE A DIFFERENT LENGTH OF SPOKE, EVEN IF BOTH RIMS ARE 26-INCH.

If I had to do it over again, I would not use the 229mm length spokes in a 2-cross pattern, I would use the 216mm spokes in a one-cross pattern, using Polyax nipples, and Sapim stainless-steel single-butted 13/14ga spokes. Danscomp.com doesn't have the single-butted spokes in their catalog, but I have been told they have them, and they are available if you ask their phone representative. This rim is an alexrims.com DM24 (24mm wide), and in the future I might use a wider rim, depending on hos the tire fit works out.

Single-butted spokes are sometimes called "butted", but do not order double-butted (thick at both ends, thin in the center) because the 13ga or 12ga nipples will not work.

To see the pics of the build-up of a front Xiongda V-brake hub (disc model is wider by 10mm), go to this link in the wheel-building/spoke lacing thread.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=64324&p=1010099#p1010099

 

[menvert]

Polyax nipples, and Sapim stainless-steel single-butted 13/14ga spokes.

That combo (but in 2x pattern on 700c) worked a treat for me, I didn't have any issue with alternating the head in/head out on the hub with them though.

In other news I got my 2x16Ah 6s HK LiPo wired up, man it goes way too fast now, getting about 40kmh on flat on full [50v] charge. As I am used to LiFe I guess with lipo the voltage will drop much more during discharge (yet to do a full commute)

I have changed my PAS (C4=0) levels to now limit accel speed to help with it being too fast

I only wish the MEGA 1000w charger was calibrated properly... it reads cell voltage .02 volts too high (not so bad, just means it balances to 4.18, which is desirable) BUT one cell it reads .11 lower than the actual voltage, so it tries to balance it to 4.31 (BAD!)

EDIT: hmm after the 1st 11k ride, and back on charger.. it no longer has cell5 different to the rest...weird...

 

[menvert]

Well, my 2 16Ah 6s's gets me to work and back (~36km) on about 78% so that's pretty ideal.
The accelerator limited by PAS level (C4=0) is not ideal, as it also makes PAS super aggressive ( It feels like it only has to detect minimal PAS and then goes direct to 80% throttle)

I do have a semi-random issue where the motor goes weird like some of the hall sensors aren't working, it sort of accelerates 1/2 a second, starts again, stops, etc.
It happens more when I am accelerating down hill (like at 40kmh) and also seems ok once I have used 1/3 of battery (when voltage is under 47ish)
I have to turn it off and on and then it's all good, any ideas?

I did have a similar issue when I was hooking up a relay into the 5v line, so I suspect that it's something like the 5v rail goes too low momentarily or something...
I do have hall sensors on the brakes, PAS, accelerator and a cruise Unit that presumably draws some power, so assuming it's a single rail it might just be over utilized? (still not sure why a different battery causes the similar issue)

 

[menvert]

I got it open. I used a bigger hammer! Thanks d8veh and panurge.

Unfortunately gears got chewed from riding and that is what originally froze it. I sent pictures to Yona and we will see how we fix it, cause I really like this motor (when it is running).
otherDoc

Alas I think I have a similar problem docnjoj, it started with a tick, tick, tick at high speed then this morning it's getting noisier and noisier, and now when I power it holding wheel off the ground it sounds like something's loose in there, I hope I make it home, and then I'll have to open it up

 

[docnjoj]

I got it open. I used a bigger hammer! Thanks d8veh and panurge.

Unfortunately gears got chewed from riding and that is what originally froze it. I sent pictures to Yona and we will see how we fix it, cause I really like this motor (when it is running).
otherDoc

Alas I think I have a similar problem docnjoj, it started with a tick, tick, tick at high speed then this morning it's getting noisier and noisier, and now when I power it holding wheel off the ground it sounds like something's loose in there, I hope I make it home, and then I'll have to open it up

Do you have any idea how many miles you have on that motor? I was using 36 volts with about a 1.5 mile 5% grade at the end of the ride. Total miles each ride about 20 miles for a grand total of around 500 miles since the motor was new.
Mine is due for it's first long test ride tomorrow since the rebuild.
otherDoc

 

[menvert]

Do you have any idea how many miles you have on that motor? I was using 36 volts with about a 1.5 mile 5% grade at the end of the ride. Total miles each ride about 20 miles for a grand total of around 500 miles since the motor was new.
Mine is due for it's first long test ride tomorrow since the rebuild.
otherDoc

About 2600 KM (1615 miles) 2400 of that was with a 36v my commute is 16km/10mi each way with several hills including one big hill about 10% for .3k. no real issues, but there was a slight tic, tic, tic at top speed.
My recent upgrade to 12s lipo likely pushed it too hard (it maintains 50-44v range through a return commute, compared to my old 40-36)... I thought with a total weight of 80kg/130lb it wouldn't be much stress...

 

[d8veh]

I'm running my 36v one at 48v at the moment. I've done about 500km like that. 12S should be no problem. Also, I did 1500 km on my previous 36v one with the controller set to 20A for more torque, which gives equivalent torque to 48v.

 

[menvert]

ah, good to hear d8veh I'll assume it's a defect then, and the slight tick was there from the start but at top speed.
Gotta get me a freewheel remover tomorrow, and hope I can drill it out to fit over the shaft? I don't know any place local that'd have one pre-made for ebike shafts. Then rig a big handle etc, so I can find out what is wrong, it certainly isn't fit for more riding (though it noisily survived the subdued 16k home today)