2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[docnjoj]

Glad you got home. If the motor turns, there is a good chance all the gears are intact. Clutches? Bearings. I used the Allen screw in the screw hole like D8veh showed and it worked. Could not open the motor with a 2x4 pry bar with holes cut and screwed in. Hammer and Allen screw method worked. Be careful to mount the Allen screw with washers as his photo showed. I used a longer Allen screw at first and broke off 2 of them.
otherDoc

 

[craiggor]

Should there be a spacer here ?

 

[d8veh]

No spacer is necessary. I was thinking about your ticking noise while I was riding my one today, marvelling at its silence. Are you sure that it's not the spokes ticking? Did you check the spoke tension?

 

[chas58]

Gotta get me a freewheel remover tomorrow, and hope I can drill it out to fit over the shaft? I don't know any place local that'd have one pre-made for ebike shafts.

'I drilled mine out. That metal must be hard because it was a tough drilling task. But I finally got that hole big enough.

 

[docnjoj]

I used my drill press and several drills. I finally used the Dremel and some carbide bits to finish it. The second one I bought from Ebikekit. Much easier.
otherDoc

 

[menvert]

No spacer is necessary. I was thinking about your ticking noise while I was riding my one today, marvelling at its silence. Are you sure that it's not the spokes ticking? Did you check the spoke tension?

I don't think it is spokes I have had spoke sound on old bike, I don't have a tensioner but they feel good, the tick really sounds like metal brushing on metal like one drum spinning within another but touching briefly if that makes sense.
Thanks for hints about removal, it's quite a task... hope my hand drill can mod the remover.

 

[docnjoj]

@ menvert. Just keep changing batteries and drill bits.
We just got back from out first test of the rebuilt XiongDa and it worked fine. The new grease that Yona sent is really thick and definitely quiets down the gears. I guess I put all those stupid little springs and rollers back correctly since the motor works. My A123 battery not so much. I need to take it down, put in the Multisports and test again. Then I can take the A123 apart and check each cell. I have 2 extras to replace with. Stay tuned. Oh yeah we only did 10 miles since the battery was showing empty. Not sure how accurate that little gauge on the KT-3 screen is.
otherDoc

 

[menvert]

I have 2x 1 hour charge drill batteries so take it easy and hope to not break bits much and should be good Is there a specific type of remover tool? (my freewheel is the DNC 7 speed or whatever they call to one made usually sold for ebikes) there seems to be a few varieties
I don't think the gauge is calibrated to understand A123's (as I thought they are Life 3.3v cells?) mine used to show 3/4 - 1/2 most of the ride, although Life cells do drop rapidly once they are almost done so not worth risking it...

 

[docnjoj]

I have 2x 1 hour charge drill batteries so take it easy and hope to not break bits much and should be good Is there a specific type of remover tool? (my freewheel is the DNC 7 speed or whatever they call to one made usually sold for ebikes) there seems to be a few varieties
I don't think the gauge is calibrated to understand A123's (as I thought they are Life 3.3v cells?) mine used to show 3/4 - 1/2 most of the ride, although Life cells do drop rapidly once they are almost done so not worth risking it...

I'm not sure either about calibration of the little gauge. I should have brought Cellogs but just plain forgot. It is easy to hear those alarms while on my trike. The motor makes little noise.

 

[menvert]

I ordered a proper DNP freewheel remover for ebikes, found an AU supplier, so hope it comes fast, messing around drilling and buying more bits, when it also needs to be longer for the DNP doesn't seem worth it.

My last Life had a BMS so it just stopped when it hit LVC, but I don't think I ever flattened it on the LCD3, 'cause I was already charging at work by then.

 

[docnjoj]

Our rides are out and back, and I have had a battery flop 10 mile out. We use a bungee tow rope so we don't have to call for help, but it is the "ride of shame. I need to thoroughly check my A123 cause I think it has one bad cell causing cut off.
Anyways I want to try the Multisports to see if that little bit of extra power helps. We normally use 11-12 Ah per trip, should be less with the Xiongda gears.
otherDoc

 

[waynebergman]

HI Doc
I have been following this thread with interest for some time now as the two speed huby sounds like a good idea. I recently got into the the trike world as well myself and loving it. I see you have a steintrike that has this two speed motor on. Can you post some pictures of your trike or is there a build thread for that bike? Thanks ......wayne

 

[docnjoj]

HI Doc
I have been following this thread with interest for some time now as the two speed huby sounds like a good idea. I recently got into the the trike world as well myself and loving it. I see you have a steintrike that has this two speed motor on. Can you post some pictures of your trike or is there a build thread for that bike? Thanks ......wayne

I had some build pictures a while back, but it is essentially a stock Mad Max with a battery tray of Lexan below the seat. The Xiongda is the standard 20" high speed version, and that's about it. Oh yeah, I replaced the 160mm front discs with 185mm ones and used the adapter to make them fit. If you ride faster than I do (which almost everyone does,) you might look at the new Steintrikes tilting trike. More money, however. I hope this helps. Oh yeah, you can get a frame kit for Steintrikes at much less cost than an assembled trike. You gotta buy tires, gears, brakes and shifter etc. One more thing. The wheels were poor on the original so I got some true American 16" (305 mm) front wheels made out of glass filled nylon and changed the bearings to 12mm ID. These are wheels from the KMX trike and they work great. I believe you can get double wall European 16" wheels now. Also went to 150 mm cranks because of my knees. Please feel free to ask questions either here or pm.
otherDoc

 

[chas58]

I don't think the gauge is calibrated to understand A123's (as I thought they are Life 3.3v cells?) mine used to show 3/4 - 1/2 most of the ride, although Life cells do drop rapidly once they are almost done so not worth risking it...

Yeah, I ran mine to dead a couple of times, so I know the range (24 miles). Its flat here, so its consistant. If I don't go over 20 miles I have power in reserve, and have longer battery life.

You are right though. I stopped after 23 miles, and the lifepo battery read 80% full. I laughed and ran another mile until they died.

 

[chas58]

I ordered a proper DNP freewheel remover for ebikes, found an AU supplier, so hope it comes fast, messing around drilling and buying more bits, when it also needs to be longer for the DNP doesn't seem worth it.

Good plan! It can be drilled if you need to, but much easier to purchase if you can wait.

 

[menvert]

I ordered a proper DNP freewheel remover for ebikes, found an AU supplier, so hope it comes fast, messing around drilling and buying more bits, when it also needs to be longer for the DNP doesn't seem worth it.

Good plan! It can be drilled if you need to, but much easier to purchase if you can wait.

The waiting sucks... catching Public Transport just isn't fun (and costs me $10 a day)

Also went to 150 mm cranks because of my knees. otherDoc

Totally second this, my 152mm cranks have helped my knees considerably, I really can't understand why they are hard to get, many people would benefit....
I just wish I could get a 52 tooth crank too so I can lower my cadence more to protect knees... without having to go into $100's

 

[docnjoj]

I ordered a proper DNP freewheel remover for ebikes, found an AU supplier, so hope it comes fast, messing around drilling and buying more bits, when it also needs to be longer for the DNP doesn't seem worth it.

Good plan! It can be drilled if you need to, but much easier to purchase if you can wait.

The waiting sucks... catching Public Transport just isn't fun (and costs me $10 a day)

Also went to 150 mm cranks because of my knees. otherDoc

Totally second this, my 152mm cranks have helped my knees considerably, I really can't understand why they are hard to get, many people would benefit....
I just wish I could get a 52 tooth crank too so I can lower my cadence more to protect knees... without having to go into $100's

Actually you do want your cadence to be higher with short cranks. You don't want to be pushing with a lot of pressure, since that will be counter productive. Believe it or not I ride mostly my middle ring since I got the short cranks. More rpms/minute but far less stress. I would go down a gear or two and get a cadence > 80, even 90 if possible. It takes a little getting used to but it really helps knees.
otherDoc

 

[waynebergman]

Hey menvert, one solution I found to work to get a 52 tooth ring on my mountain bike crank assembly is I pulled a 52 tooth ring off of a road bike I found at the dump and just riveted it to my existing race face mountain bike crank assembly. It works well and on my trike I just leave it on the big ring as I have plenty of electric assist so I can just leave it on the big ring all the time.

 

[menvert]

I wish I could... anything over 50-60 cadence doesn't suit my knees, they are in pain now from my week of the new batteries with higher top speed & cadence
waynebergman I have pondered doing something like that, even new 52 teeth chain rings on their own are not too expensive. Currently I have my front derailleur locked to the 48, I don't user lower ones, especially with the lower gear available on this motor. I guess it doesn't matter if it's not perfectly centered either...

 

[docnjoj]

I wish I could... anything over 50-60 cadence doesn't suit my knees, they are in pain now from my week of the new batteries with higher top speed & cadence
waynebergman I have pondered doing something like that, even new 52 teeth chain rings on their own are not too expensive. Currently I have my front derailleur locked to the 48, I don't user lower ones, especially with the lower gear available on this motor. I guess it doesn't matter if it's not perfectly centered either...

At least try the higher cadence. With short cranks, the key is to reduce the angle of your knees bending when you pedal. That and reduced pressure on the knee relieves the pain. For me, and many others it works. Under no circumstances do you want to "Yam" on the pedals in a high gear. That is the worst thing to do to knees. Using shorter cranks does require a rethink of how you pedal.
otherDoc

 

[menvert]

Okay so I got my Freewheel remover, came off pretty easy, opening the Hub is another story....
Eventually light tapping with a rubber mallet, with the longer screw supported by washers worked as suggested, banged the edges of the hub a bit, when trying other methods just cosmetic though.

So here is the culprit, nothing else appears amiss


It's nice to see 1st hand how it all works, lets see what Yona says

 

[d8veh]

Can you just remind me which controller you have. Do you have the HAL switch? Was there some event that caused the failure like jumping off a kerb or a gear change?

For others reading, the method of getting the cover off by tapping round a cap-head screw supported by a washer works really well. It works even better if you heat up the hub with a hot air gun until its just about too hot to touch. The motor and gears don't touch the hub, so won't get burnt.

 

[menvert]

I wish I had any obvious reason for this but nothing abnormal happened physically, no curbs hit hard or anything like that, the only real change was the higher voltage 12s battery, I started running 36v Lifepo4 pack and then my Lifepo4 with an extra Lipo cell on the home trip for a while then onto the 12s and from your experience d8veh this on it's own is not likely to be the issue.

I had noticed the small tick sound at max speed from early on, which finally became progressively worse over the 1st week of the new battery (hard to tell if it was getting worse from the start as i couldn't really hear it over the cars, until I got the higher top speed)

I have the 36v KT sine controller with the HAL switch, which I only run in manual
I switch to low when speed drops to around the top speed in low, or starting on hills, which is usually about 4 times in my 18k commute.
I mainly use accelerator, but had PAS enabled too

 

[waingroo]

Has anyone tried to fill this motor with ATF oil? For sure will extend the gears life and also will better disperse the heat.

Unfortunately, Yona haven't reply on my mail in a reasonable time because of chinese New Year and I spend money on a couple of Heinzmann.
Anyway, the first thing I'll try to do about this hub, (hope to get one as soon possible) will be to cast all plastic gears from epoxy.
Watching d8veh photos about 2 speed XD, I concluded that the gears are made from polyamide, but may I be wrong... at least the ring gear, which means a bit more reliability than the nylon ones.

Here is a good video about casting gears https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RegGZR5SL3c

Also, I had the idea in using ATF as a lube for hub motors even before touch one, then i've done some research and Ifind this: https://etrike.wordpress.com/2013/04/21/oil-cooling-a-bafang-swxh-geared-hub-motor/

 

[menvert]

Yeah, they do not appear to be nylon gears, it is some harder plastic And if I figure it right the broken gear is on the high speed / low torque end, so lowest load of any of the gears..

So atf is not electrically conductive? I mean it will get in all the circuitry of this motor