2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[cwah]

Are they going to have an upgraded version of the motor someday with cassette?

 

[knutselmaaster]

There was a rumor that they're working on a casette version, I don't know if/when it will be available.

I have some trouble getting the max speed setting to work on the lishui, whatever I set, it still runs at the same max speed.
Speed indication works fine even with the motor not running.
I will send a mail to Bonnie, maybe she can help.

 

[ktmede]

Yes, they do have a cassette version.
The only issue it is pretty wide 145 mm for v-brake, 155 mm for disc.

 

[nw01]

Hi, recently passed 1300 k in 6 mths i suppose. Has done well on these volcanic hills with 30-40k trips. Today had a controller low noise/sound at the end of my battery/long ride going up hill in low ? Also is there a headlight power point from my controller and what voltage would it be ?

 

[d8veh]

There's no headlight connection point. Banggood.com have some very good and cheap headlights that can run directly from your 48v battery. You'll need to add a switch. This one is quite good if you can fabricate a bracket.

http://www.banggood.com/LED100-U_S-CREE-U2-Chip-10W-Motorcycle-Headlight-Lamps-HiLo-Beam-p-936991.html

 

[nw01]

Hi, recently passed 1300 k in 6 mths i suppose. Has done well on these volcanic hills with 30-40k trips. Today had a controller low noise/sound at the end of my battery/long ride going up hill in low ? Also is there a headlight power point from my controller and what voltage would it be ?

After a charge no noise, must have just been the charge.
Ordered headlight, low beams a good idea.

 

[nw01]

Hi, recently passed 1300 k in 6 mths i suppose. Has done well on these volcanic hills with 30-40k trips. Today had a controller low noise/sound at the end of my battery/long ride going up hill in low ? Also is there a headlight power point from my controller and what voltage would it be ?

Got the new headlight, chunnnky & definatly wont overheat once im movin. Unfortunatly the noise actually came from the hub as at the end of the next ride low range failed, nothing. Limped home in normal range and await new hub before i dismantle this limper and investigate. A broken low range gear i suppose.

 

[menvert]

That's a shame, did/do you remember any significant rolling back [when it's not freely rolling]?

Mine's been continuing great (cross fingers) after I put as much thin (WD40 PTFE) oil in it as I can (and still close it up without making a big mess) + being careful to not let it roll back unless the clutches really have disengaged.
at about 6000km on the ODO now, but I did break the passive speed sensor, so it'll be more k's than that.

Still not really sure if my replacement gears were a better compound...

 

[d8veh]

That's right. You have to be very careful when reversing. If the motor locks and you force the bike backwards, it will probably break the ring gear like this one (not mine):

 

[nw01]

Yep, a little rolling back.

 

[craiggor]

A little bit more about the noise:

After 100 miles the noise got worse to the point of bugging me, so I opened the motor to see what's going on. The black grease had gone thick and waxy, so I cleaned off what I could and applied my own gear grease. Now the motor is as quiet as any. It only makes that nice electrical hum. It only takes about 15 minutes to do the complete job including removing the wheel. It's a little bit fiddly to get the gears meshed together. The technique is to rotate the planetary gear plate until the inner output gear can be assembled to it, then remove the output gear and assemble it to the side-plate. When you assemble the side-plate, the inner output gear will then fit into the planetary gears so that it goes together.

The controller is just a standard one with the normal fixed (at about 31v) LVC. Interestingly i have some other controllers that have a pair of brown wires for reversing a motor's direction. I think I'll keep a couple as spares in case of any problems with the Xiongda ones. They will only allow manual gear-changing, but that's better than none.

Any chance of you pointing me in the right direction for a cheap replacement controller.Don't mind manual gear change.Mine seems to be getting rather warm.E-mailed yona but no reply yet.when I go on eBay looking for 36v 250w brush less controller it comes up with a lot of 36v/48v 350 w ones which I suppose I should steer clear of.

 

[menvert]

A little bit more about the noise:

After 100 miles the noise got worse to the point of bugging me, so I opened the motor to see what's going on. The black grease had gone thick and waxy, so I cleaned off what I could and applied my own gear grease. Now the motor is as quiet as any. It only makes that nice electrical hum. It only takes about 15 minutes to do the complete job including removing the wheel. It's a little bit fiddly to get the gears meshed together. The technique is to rotate the planetary gear plate until the inner output gear can be assembled to it, then remove the output gear and assemble it to the side-plate. When you assemble the side-plate, the inner output gear will then fit into the planetary gears so that it goes together.

The controller is just a standard one with the normal fixed (at about 31v) LVC. Interestingly i have some other controllers that have a pair of brown wires for reversing a motor's direction. I think I'll keep a couple as spares in case of any problems with the Xiongda ones. They will only allow manual gear-changing, but that's better than none.

Any chance of you pointing me in the right direction for a cheap replacement controller.Don't mind manual gear change.Mine seems to be getting rather warm.E-mailed yona but no reply yet.when I go on eBay looking for 36v 250w brush less controller it comes up with a lot of 36v/48v 350 w ones which I suppose I should steer clear of.

Not sure re: after-market controllers to buy, just as long as it has reverse & a reverse switch, what matters more than the watts rating is that it should be 15A max output to match the supplied ones or have programming to be able to set it (though some people run the XD @ 20A) other than that ideally the same connectors, unless you like soldering?

But I will say the KT controllers do run hot, that is not a fault, it is normal... I have mine housed externally, bolted to my rack in the moving air otherwise they just get too hot sometimes (and I have had the same experience with 3 different KT's)
I couldn't keep mine in a bag in winter without it overheating and cutting power at the top of hills.

 

[craiggor]

A little bit more about the noise:

After 100 miles the noise got worse to the point of bugging me, so I opened the motor to see what's going on. The black grease had gone thick and waxy, so I cleaned off what I could and applied my own gear grease. Now the motor is as quiet as any. It only makes that nice electrical hum. It only takes about 15 minutes to do the complete job including removing the wheel. It's a little bit fiddly to get the gears meshed together. The technique is to rotate the planetary gear plate until the inner output gear can be assembled to it, then remove the output gear and assemble it to the side-plate. When you assemble the side-plate, the inner output gear will then fit into the planetary gears so that it goes together.

The controller is just a standard one with the normal fixed (at about 31v) LVC. Interestingly i have some other controllers that have a pair of brown wires for reversing a motor's direction. I think I'll keep a couple as spares in case of any problems with the Xiongda ones. They will only allow manual gear-changing, but that's better than none.

Any chance of you pointing me in the right direction for a cheap replacement controller.Don't mind manual gear change.Mine seems to be getting rather warm.E-mailed yona but no reply yet.when I go on eBay looking for 36v 250w brush less controller it comes up with a lot of 36v/48v 350 w ones which I suppose I should steer clear of.

Not sure re: after-market controllers to buy, just as long as it has reverse & a reverse switch, what matters more than the watts rating is that it should be 15A max output to match the supplied ones or have programming to be able to set it (though some people run the XD @ 20A) other than that ideally the same connectors, unless you like soldering?

But I will say the KT controllers do run hot, that is not a fault, it is normal... I have mine housed externally, bolted to my rack in the moving air otherwise they just get too hot sometimes (and I have had the same experience with 3 different KT's)
I couldn't keep mine in a bag in winter without it overheating and cutting power at the top of hills.

Mine has not cut power yet.just hot.I have moved it from the inside of my battery box to its own box.I think I will drill some holes and fit a fan.

 

[craiggor]

 

[knutselmaaster]

I have lowered the max power a bit with the lcd3 settings, as I don't need it to max out (I weigh only 65kg and I use a light bike) because the power is largely sufficient and the motor runs super quiet that way.
Last summer when it was around 35 Celsius the controller got quite hot indeed but not too hot, it never cut.
I have the controller in a canvas saddle bag and when it is really hot outside I open it a few centimeters to be sure to have some airflow.

 

[menvert]

To be fair my usage is on the high end of demanding...
I run flat out throttle, little to no peddalling depending on how my joints are that week.
Convenient that in my setup I have a section in my rack that can be used as a rain guard and heat spreader but allow lots of air.

 

[d8veh]

I can't recommend a replacement controller because I haven't found a uitable one. I tried one with a reversing switch, but it didn't work. Maybe it needed the wire sequence hanging. I never went thst far. In theory any one up to 20A for 36v and 15A at 58v with a revering switch should work.

 

[skoleskibe]

AARRGHHH, yesterday, just arriving at work, stopped to talk to an other ebiker, i mounted my bike, as i applied full throttle in low gear and a snap sounded, think the ring gear broke There is no traction in low gear no more. Luckily i could drive home in high gear. Now i wonder what Bonnie @ xiongda says.

Will dismantle the darn thin this afternoon, and make some picts, if there is anything to see.

 

[skoleskibe]

Well that's not so good, the ring gear is nackered, partly because the nylon is rather worn, explaining the noise, and the clutching is due to a broken ring in the ring gear. DAMN




In the meantime i've found out that the reason for my motor not automaticly shifting to lo settings when i come to a standstill. it's an issue with the connectors at the motor. As i had assembled the motor, i gave me ¨error 3¨ meaning an issue with the hall signal. Just to be sure it was not an user error, i took the connectors apart, and found out that if joined to the small mark on the male 9 pin one or more of the hall sensors where not connected properly, so backed up on the connectors some 2mm and no "error 3", and at the first intersection i came to when i gave it a spin, it automaticly shifted to lo. Only now i can't use the lo position due to the crack in the ring gear

 

[glend]

Hello, This is my first post of this forum.
Please permit my poor English.

I think there is cause of the rollback issue in a green part of picture.
When internal motor does rotation in normal direction[strike](Low gear)[/strike](High gear), the green part moves, and ring gear(red part) becomes free in both direction.
And When motor stopped, the green part turns back by springs.

If the green part doesn't return for some reasons, ring gear is free, and sun gear(orange part) is locked.
As a result, rollback of motor is prevented.
I think this trouble can be reduced, if reducing green part's friction.

Thanks d3M for explaining the possible cause of some failures. I wonder if using a mix of Nulon PTFE and Automatic Transmission Fluid will be better than the grease Xiongda uses to reduce friction. I also wonder if centrifugal forces are preventing the springs from returning the green part under certain conditions. I just had a failure (high gear mushy) after 700km so will buy a second motor allowing me to experiment with the old one which I will repair and lace it to rim as a backup.

The Xiongda is perfect for my needs but its reliability needs to be improved. Xiongda does seem to go out their way to help people so I am hopeful they will come up with a fix.

 

[menvert]

Yup, I run WD40 PTFE (probably exactly the same product as nulon) which is thinner than ATF and it works very well, so +1 to using a very liquid lube (I have had from memory about 1500k on that setup and battery usage has consistently stayed lower, suggesting reduced friction and wear + it rolls better now) basically as much as I could get in without it spilling everywhere.

The thing with the XD is that under power there is always a component spinning backwards against all the other parts... in high for example the clutch engages and locks onto the yellow sun gear, but because the planetary gears are always engaged the ring gear(red) is now spinning backwards against the direction of travel...

So for this reason ATF or any thin lube IMO will always be superior, especially when you consider how many friction points the ring gear actually has (3 surfaces on the metal section + the teeth) and you really don't want thick lube around the clutches because they only have mm of clearance.

Re: the springs/green mechanism it seems to work well for me at high rpm, always Clacking as it changes gear.
I don't think the springs do much for engaging and disengaging the green part this is driven by the rotational force itself caused when each clutch engages
In High the inner roller clutch pushes against the green as it engages and locks (which also makes the see-saw force the outer clutch to disengage)
In Low sun and inner clutch goes backwards helping to release the green while the outer roller clutch pushes the see-saw as it locks, which releases the green part by force

Incidentally because of the see-saw these two actions are mutually exclusive in forward motion, you can't lock up the wheel, but when rolling the wheel back they can BOTH be activated causing the wheel lock-up we all know

 

[glend]

Yup, I run WD40 PTFE (probably exactly the same product as nulon) which is thinner than ATF and it works very well, so +1 to using a very liquid lube (I have had from memory about 1500k on that setup and battery usage has consistently stayed lower, suggesting reduced friction and wear + it rolls better now) basically as much as I could get in without it spilling everywhere.

The thing with the XD is that under power there is always a component spinning backwards against all the other parts... in high for example the clutch engages and locks onto the yellow sun gear, but because the planetary gears are always engaged the ring gear(red) is now spinning backwards against the direction of travel...

So for this reason ATF or any thin lube IMO will always be superior, especially when you consider how many friction points the ring gear actually has (3 surfaces on the metal section + the teeth) and you really don't want thick lube around the clutches because they only have mm of clearance.

Thanks menvert for explaining and the heads-up with the WD40 . I use a bike for transport and need a good 2400km from the motor to break even so hopefully WD40 will do the trick. I was lifting the backwheel and twisting the throttle to force the motor into high gear which is when it made a loud cracking sound. I won't be doing that again!! Its still usable but sounds a bit iffy in top gear so don't think it will last much longer. When I receive the new motor I will take the old one apart to access the damage.

 

[menvert]

I use a bike for transport and need a good 2400km from the motor to break even so hopefully WD40 will do the trick. I was lifting the backwheel and twisting the throttle to force the motor into high gear which is when it made a loud cracking sound. I won't be doing that again!! Its still usable but sounds a bit iffy in top gear so don't think it will last much longer. When I receive the new motor I will take the old one apart to access the damage.

I have managed more than 2600k on the newer gears this time with the better lube so fingers crossed. The factory lube was some sort of dry silicone in the teeth and not sure what sort of oil in the clutch. I have tried a more traditional bearing grease and although it made the clacking go away, the friction was noticeably higher.

Regarding your issue; holding the wheel off ground and accelerating certainly shouldn't cause a break, I have done it dozens of times, especially in auto to check that it shifts into high, I would consider that a defect for sure, I would think Bonnie will send replacement parts no worries, when you identify the failed part, but to do that you'll be out of action a week or two (XD use DHL which has always been super fast, like 4 days delivery for me)

 

[skoleskibe]

Bonnie promptly offered me to send replacement ring gear and hi n LO gears. Also asked if i needed a new clutch, which i did'nt
Best service i've experienced from china by far. Even better than ebike service in Denmark or germany
Marvelous.
Yiihaa

 

[docnjoj]

Bonnie promptly offered me to send replacement ring gear and hi n LO gears. Also asked if i needed a new clutch, which i did'nt
Best service i've experienced from china by far. Even better than ebike service in Denmark or germany
Marvelous.
Yiihaa

I have to agree about the service. Rebuild parts came quickly fron Xiongda.
otherDoc