2 Speed Xiongda hubmotor

[skoleskibe]

Yiihaa my ring gear has arrived.
Bonnie at xiongda is just marvelous.

 

[craiggor]

Yiihaa my ring gear has arrived.
Bonnie at xiongda is just marvelous.

What type of grease are you going for.I'am on 1194 miles now think it's time to put some in.Having a uncontrollable urge to use one of these.

 

[menvert]

Yeah, that looks pretty sweet, I can only get so much of my WD40PTFE Wet stuff in there and not have it go everywhere when I screw it back together...

Though from my experience actually flushing the clutch clean each time you do an oil change is highly desirable, which still needs opening.

 

[skoleskibe]

I have had exactly the same idea, but i Think it'll only work Well with fluids that spread out, not thick grease. As it'll not reach the innards of the ringgear parts of the gearbox.

 

[ktmede]

The first bike I built with this motor almost a year ago did fail with a "info 03" failure today.
It is a 48v version with KT controller and LCD3 display.
After switching it on, I can notice a small attempt to start, followed by a blinking 03 info on the display.
The KT-LCD3 manual lists this code as: "Motor hall signal Abnormality".
To find out what's wrong / reduce the potential bad parts, I moved my other bike with the same motor next to it and connected that motor to it.
Then I lifted the wheel of the second bike and pushed the throttle on the first bike and the motor of the second bike started to turn.
This leaves either the motor or the cable attached to it as a cause of the problem. Since the cable looks fine, there seems to be only the motor left.
Is anyone out there who could help me how to further find out what's wrong or even better how to fix it.
Thanks

 

[Jon NCal]

There's a guide to testing halls on Grin Technologies site: http://www.ebikes.ca/learn/troubleshooting.html

 

[ktmede]

Thanks for the pointer to that guide.
When following the test procedure, I noticed the voltage between ground (black) and green always stays at about 5V when turning the wheel slowly backwards - or fast.
Probing between ground and yellow or ground and green while turning the wheel slowly backwards correctly shows the voltage changing between 0 and 5 V, and when turning fast it stays at about 2.5 V.
According to the test guide, it's the following issue:
"If one of the hall’s voltage doesn’t switch then you either have an issue with the wiring for that hall or an issue with the actual hall itself."
I've already checked all cables outside of the motor, they are OK.
Is it possible to check the cables inside / is it worth opening the motor up?
What could a hall sensor make go bad from one day to the other without any incident?
Did anyone else experience this problem / has fixed it?
Thanks

 

[John in CR]

42 pages about an unreliable system that requires silly amounts of maintenance...when are you guys going to say "enough is enough" and just get a real motor that you don't have to muck with all the time?

 

[skoleskibe]

@John in CR
Just as reliable as any geared hubmotor, but with the possible use of normal size batteries when delivering tons of torque, and a reasonable speed without any heat issues. Unlike most other motors where you must choose between torque or speed, or go with humongus batteries and have both, and maybe have heat issues on top of that.

 

[panurge]

There isn't any doubt that the system is not stable like standard geared or DD hubs are....The main attraction of the XD is the retrodirect concept, though. I bet Most of us (xd buyers) have purchased the system for that, knowing is an early design, prone to bugs and fails or at least major improvements and upgrades.
That said, I have purchased 10 motors and only had a problem with one. Plus one of the fat stile motors with threads both ends, has stripped the threads using the rotor adapter, but the problem was solved with the dtswiss tandem adapter that features almost double the thread lenght, a much stronger material, and granes to firmly hold it onto the hub's threads.
I use 2 of these motors directly and sold/given for real life tests to some buddies/riders the other 7 (+ one stolen with the dirtjump-road-race setup).

To me, the lack of a stable control platform is the worst part of the game, just think that the Lishui/Kingmeters system I got with the first order placed, has been so far the best control combo I've used with the XDs....

 

[1boris]

42 pages about an unreliable system that requires silly amounts of maintenance...when are you guys going to say "enough is enough" and just get a real motor that you don't have to muck with all the time?

I completly agree.I have had 4 xiongda 48 (15a)volts motors.2 of them burned and gear and noise problems with the other two.The Idea is very good but this motor need a redisign.Also I burned one of them in the low speed gear(torque is impressive) when I was pedalling above 10 kmh.The no load speed in low gear is about 18 kmh.It shouldnt get burned from my understanding.Is it to little coppar or too thin coppar wires?

I think the q128H 800w (inrunner) is a much better motor.Small,quiet,very powerfull and takes a lot to get hot.I used this motor on the same hill I burned the xiongda half way up and it was only hand warm at the top even when I run it with 48v 18 ah.But the lcd3 display shows only 800w max when battery is fully charged.Top speed on the flat throttle only is about 43-44 kmh.It is listed as a 201 rpm at 36v,but that cant be correct.and I could pedal faster up the hill then with the xiongda.Another thing I noticed with my Xiongda motors is that the torque is significantly weaker when the motor is warm(not hot) but also the controller gets very warm.
.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/776-q128h-48v800w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html

 

[menvert]

Is it possible to check the cables inside / is it worth opening the motor up?
What could a hall sensor make go bad from one day to the other without any incident?
Did anyone else experience this problem / has fixed it?
Thanks

It ain't so hard to open, as previously discussed, create a special bolt with spacers so you can hit it in the correct direction.... best strategy it to hit is over and over firmly, not too hard and keep checking the screw is in nice and not too damaged.

do continuity test on each wire or something? might be worth asking Bonnie, what she says to test, though it's going to be pretty hard if you have to replace a hall I think...

 

[menvert]

I think the q128H 800w (inrunner) is a much better motor.Small,quiet,very powerfull and takes a lot to get hot.I used this motor on the same hill I burned the xiongda half way up and it was only hand warm at the top even when I run it with 48v 18 ah.But the lcd3 display shows only 800w max when battery is fully charged.Top speed on the flat throttle only is about 43-44 kmh.It is listed as a 201 rpm at 36v,but that cant be correct.and I could pedal faster up the hill then with the xiongda.Another thing I noticed with my Xiongda motors is that the torque is significantly weaker when the motor is warm(not hot) but also the controller gets very warm.
.
https://bmsbattery.com/ebike-kit/776-q128h-48v800w-rear-driving-e-bike-motor-wheel-ebike-kit.html

yep controller is way hot, Can't say I noticed less torque from motor heat, but mine is much more lubricated than factory.
If that Q128H was labelled as a 250w nominal @36v It'd be my next choice, but looks like they are labelling it on peak watts or something or are you running less than it's expected amps, thus why it is so cold etc? One of the main reasons I have the XD is 250w rated at 36v so basically legal but can get me up all the hills in low that my last 350w rated couldn't.

 

[tcusack]

Hi Menvert.
Two questions: You have perservered with these motors, while others have fallen away. How have you dealt with/worked around the reluctance to back up, and the apparent eventual damage to nylon gears?

Is the Q128H marked as other than 250w/350w, to your knowledge, and how is it marked? I'm interested in a Q128H for my first build, because, all things considered, it looks to have greater long term reliability than the XD, and similar real world climbing ability.

Tim

 

[menvert]

Hi Menvert.
Two questions: You have perservered with these motors, while others have fallen away. How have you dealt with/worked around the reluctance to back up, and the apparent eventual damage to nylon gears?

Is the Q128H marked as other than 250w/350w, to your knowledge, and how is it marked? I'm interested in a Q128H for my first build, because, all things considered, it looks to have greater long term reliability than the XD, and similar real world climbing ability.

Tim

Hello Tcusack,

For the roll-back issue - I am just really careful when I roll back, I first test to make sure it isn't locked up. If it is locked up it usually frees up with some gentle rocking forward/back (though after a steep 20% hill-climb in L like my final 50m @ home it sometimes won't budge until I power in H gear to release it)

Regarding motors, I am by no means an expert but this is what I have researched and concluded, also keeping in mind that the Nominal rating is somewhat arbitrary and decided by the manufacturer...;
-Q128 range appear to be in the 500w class of motors, with the H variant upping the Amps/Torque somewhat making the 128H an 800w Nominal Motor, it probably peaks at or above 1200w @36v if you use the suggested 30A controller)
-Q100 would be in the same class as this XD I reckon (being 250-350w) being able to peak @ about 600w like the XD
-Q85 (200-250w) - This would be the fully legal class made for the 200w max or 250w Nominal market

Of course, actual output will be dependent on the controller used, use a 10Amp @36v controller and you will only peak 400w regardless of the motor etc. just as long as the motor is rated for the max output of the controller...

If I was going to switch back to single speed, I'd probably get the Q100H and have a reasonable expectation of similar performance, though I am sure I'd lose the ability on my commute to climb those 2 20% hills from a stand-still that the XD can. But I am too cheap to get one right now, not while my XD is still going fine.

 

[tcusack]

Thanks mate.

Tim

 

[1boris]

Hi Menvert.
Two questions: You have perservered with these motors, while others have fallen away. How have you dealt with/worked around the reluctance to back up, and the apparent eventual damage to nylon gears?

Is the Q128H marked as other than 250w/350w, to your knowledge, and how is it marked? I'm interested in a Q128H for my first build, because, all things considered, it looks to have greater long term reliability than the XD, and similar real world climbing ability.

Tim

The q128H 800w Is not marked, only some kind of serial number

 

[craiggor]

Mine died,just over 1400 miles,13 months.

The grease was like blue-tac.Fair play to Xiongda they sent me a new gear set.

Drilled and taped a fill/drain hole and now running snake oil.

 

[menvert]

Looks like the same place mine failed way back about the same mileage as yours. Yep run a nice thin oil instead, their dry lube ain't very good. Mine has gotten about double the mileage (about 7500k total) so far with new gears and thin lube.

 

[ktmede]

I still need to figure out the HAL issue of my motor.
Can someone please send me detailed instructions on how to open the motor - if possible with pictures of the tool to be build to open it.
I know there is information in this thread, but finding it in the 1000+ posts and putting it together it tough.
Thanks
Ed

 

[aroundqube]

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67001&p=1007824&hilit=xiongda+disassembly&sid=299f868431ce8fc8dc52e4c72ba76bee#p1007824

 

[menvert]

Yep basically what was said in that post, though I also use a ring spanner and slip it over the hex bolt and hit the other end of the spanner at an appropriate angle so it will push the hub to spin anti-clock-wise.

But take it slow, 3 taps then check bolt is still tight, repeat, avoid the temptation to hit it really hard... I have broken off the bolt doing that and needed to buy a bolt remover tool...
Three hits, light, medium, medium, check and repeat... works for me

I don't have pics sorry, maybe when I decide to service it again

 

[ktmede]

Thanks, those two answers helped me to open the motor.
I placed the motor for half an hour in the sun, then removed the 3 cover screws (removing one is probably sufficient - I don't think they hold anything)
added a longer hex screw to one hole, placed a ring spanner around it and started hitting the ring spanner gently with a mallet in the right direction (the cover unscrews counter clock wise).

Now I have checked the wires inside for continuity and it all indicates that the hall connected to the green wire is bad.

Has anyone ever replaced a hall sensor on this motor / has instructions on it.
Thanks
Ed

 

[menvert]

I would be asking Bonnie what to do...
Looks like each set of 3 wires go down to the hall, but wether you can actually easily remove and replace i am not so sure (like is it inside the copper coils or what?)
And knowing what type of hall you need...

 

[ktmede]

Thanks, I just sent her an email - let's see what I'll hear back.
I have another question - probably for d8veh, how do I separate the rotor from the stator?
Thanks
Ed