20kWh of energy needed, battery choice advice anyone?

[metinoheat]

Hi guys,
My friend is building a large solar boat (after a very successful smaller boat build) and is in need of some serious power. I'm trying to help him out with selecting some new batteries as his old ones were very expensive and not particularly great for his application. I recommended to him going the 18650 way but he said that would be undesirable.

Can anyone please recommend any large battery packs that would work well in this application? I'm thinking LiFe is probably the best/safest chemistry in terms of lithium, but I'm unfamiliar with any large EV packs (I'm just an E-mountainboarder).

Any links and advice would be greatly appreciated. He needs 20 kWh, preferably at 48V nominal or something easily divisible of that which comes out to around 400 Ah.

Thanks!


p.s. i did find these ones from Calb (ive never heard of them before), i dont know if they are any good though.
http://www.electriccarpartscompany....-RV-Solar-br-Battery-Bank-Pack-Kit_p_626.html

 

[riba2233]

Nissan leaf packs?

 

[Hillhater]

Go with those CalB cells.
Best value and safest for a boat installation providing he is not looking for a high amp main drive.
But,..Cells should be chosen to suit the application...
Power required
Weight restrictions,
Space restrictions,
Range/capacity needed
Charging systems
Etc.

 

[yewsuck]

The guys above have given great advice.

I would highly recommend that you and your friend check out this information link on a sail boat build and the link for a sailing forum that covers everything in a build such as this. They have way more experience in what you are looking for which is Solar battery banks on Vessels such as house boats. It is tuning for different desired effects. The guys here at this forum are great and very knowledgeable, but are more experienced in vehicles. Here are the links.


Maine Sail's webpage
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/lifepo4_on_boats

and

Cruisers forum (ask your questions and provide details of the build and why you think they are good ideas. )
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f14/


Here are also just a few of the vendors that I know of for buying cells. As the other posters have already mentioned... Calbs and GBS are probably the best, There is also Winston and Sinoply coming in a VERY close second, so you can pratically say the 4 companies are about the same. I am just going to add the links random order and I have never done business with any of these vendors...

http://www.batteryspace.com/lifepbatterymodules.aspx ...
http://store.evtv.me/products.php?cat=10
http://electricautosports.com/
http://www.elitepowersolutions.com/
http://www.electriccarpartscompany.com/
http://ev-propulsion.com/bms.html
http://www.evsource.com/tls_cabling.php
http://www.balqon.com/online-store/#!/All-Batteries/c/2736691/offset=0&sort=priceAsc
http://en.calb.cn/products-list.html <---This is Calb company themselves. You can get all the batteries I mentioned straight from the battery companies as well.


Hope this helps.

-YS

 

[Hillhater]

re reading the OP,.

My friend is building a large solar boat (after a very successful smaller boat build) and is in need of some serious power.

i dont think it really changes the options, but it sounds like this will be an electric drive on a solar recharge boat, rather than a simple electrical power bank on a sail boat.
Maybe the OP can clarify what " serious power" amounts to ?

 

[yewsuck]

re reading the OP,.

My friend is building a large solar boat (after a very successful smaller boat build) and is in need of some serious power.

i dont think it really changes the options, but it sounds like this will be an electric drive on a solar recharge boat, rather than a simple electrical power bank on a sail boat.
Maybe the OP can clarify what " serious power" amounts to ?

Oh I did not think of that. Good eye! The cruiser forum does electric drive boats as well. OP Please clarify. This forum (Endless-Sphere) is a great source of information. I have learned a great deal here.
-YS

 

[metinoheat]

Guys,

Thanks for the really great info. Here is exactly what the builder is requesting :

I'm looking for 20 kWh of battery, two 10 kWh would work even four 5 kWh, running at nominal 48 Volts. Power in and out max is 5 kW or ~100 Amps

That being said, i think that any standard LiFe battery at 20 kWh (400 Ah @ ~48V) will be able to meet that power target, so thats why im not neccesarily worried about it. A 400Ah battery drained at 100A will be about 0.25C (C/4) and most lithium batteries are rated for discharge at C-rate correct?

As far as the sailing links, that will be a big help as neither he nor i have built anything this large such that we needed to consider things like toilets refrigerators etc. Do sailboats typically use lithium for their power supply or is it mainly lead-acid?

 

[major]

Do sailboats typically use lithium for their power supply or is it mainly lead-acid?

I've seen some boats of various types start using Lithium. I just happened to notice this the other day. A triple hybrid boat: Wind, Diesel, Battery. http://chargedevs.com/newswire/torqeedos-deep-blue-hybrid-offers-flexible-power-system-for-boat-propulsion-and-accessories/

 

[MitchJi]

Hi,

Go with those CalB cells.
Best value and safest for a boat installation providing he is not looking for a high amp main drive.

Those Crappy-And-Lame-Battery Cells are not a good choice. Those cells are more expensive and lower quality and bigger and heavier than either the Chevy Volt or Leaf Packs or Sub-Packs (avoid using individual cells, which would be a LOT more work). How can they possibly be a good choice? For more information on the Chevy Volt or Leaf Packs, check the links in my signature. Tesla sub packs might also be (depending on price and availability) a good choice.

Calbs and GBS are probably the best, There is also Winston and Sinoply coming in a VERY close second, so you can practically say the 4 companies are about the same.

All of those are equal to or worse than the Crappy-And-Lame-Battery Cells?

 

[metinoheat]

Mitch,

The chevy volt pack looks almost perfect for the specs i need. How do people typically go about getting them? Do you just call a dealer?

Thanks!

 

[MitchJi]

http://www.car-part.com

 

[JackB]

Then he should join electric-boat-forum.com and start a project on there.
I'm building a 64ft solar boat.
Life is a very safe chemistry that is a good choice for boats, as weight is not so important.
Using thousands of little cells is really only ideal for a company that wants you to pay a premium to them
for assembly, i.e. Tesla.

Hi guys,
My friend is building a large solar boat (after a very successful smaller boat build) and is in need of some serious power. I'm trying to help him out with selecting some new batteries as his old ones were very expensive and not particularly great for his application. I recommended to him going the 18650 way but he said that would be undesirable.

Can anyone please recommend any large battery packs that would work well in this application? I'm thinking LiFe is probably the best/safest chemistry in terms of lithium, but I'm unfamiliar with any large EV packs (I'm just an E-mountainboarder).

Any links and advice would be greatly appreciated. He needs 20 kWh, preferably at 48V nominal or something easily divisible of that which comes out to around 400 Ah.

Thanks!


p.s. i did find these ones from Calb (ive never heard of them before), i dont know if they are any good though.
http://www.electriccarpartscompany....-RV-Solar-br-Battery-Bank-Pack-Kit_p_626.html

 

[okashira]

Sealed Model S modules. 5kwh each, lightweight, individually fused 18650's, 210 lbs for 20kwh.
And 6s each so 12s (2s module)would be near your 48V requirement.
also, great form factor, good cycle life, excellent calendar life, low cost, extremely low self discharge.

Edit: ugh, necro-thread.

 

[metinoheat]

info is still appreciated!

 

[parabellum]

Sealed Model S modules. 5kwh each, lightweight, individually fused 18650's, 210 lbs for 20kwh.
And 6s each so 12s (2s module)would be near your 48V requirement.
also, great form factor, good cycle life, excellent calendar life, low cost, extremely low self discharge.

Edit: ugh, necro-thread.

Those guys fill keels with lead or concrete to get upright orientation, they do not care about weight. 8) lead acid are the most efficient bats for this job.
P. S. Sorry, I just have few friends, both oriented.

 

[Hillhater]

But the argument for Li is still all about life cycle cost, low maintenance, and especially for boats....space saving.
For weight, they can still use lead, or pig iron etc.

 

[metinoheat]

Thread revived!

I think it depends on the duty of the boat in question. My friend's boat that he is working on is going to be used for carrying freight up and down the coast, just to prove that a fully electric solar powered boat can do it. I would imagine that in this application, the weight and the space are both concerns, though probably more space than weight. Apparently, space on a solar boat is somewhat of a precious commodity! Ill post some pics when they become available.

 

[metinoheat]

Thread revived!

I think it depends on the duty of the boat in question. My friend's boat that he is working on is going to be used for carrying freight up and down the coast, just to prove that a fully electric solar powered boat can do it. I would imagine that in this application, the weight and the space are both concerns, though probably more space than weight. Apparently, space on a solar boat is somewhat of a precious commodity! I have posted a link to a news article that partially covers the boat below:

http://www.timesunion.com/news/arti...eration-and-sharing-6083089.php#photo-7530380

 

[okashira]

Thread revived!

I think it depends on the duty of the boat in question. My friend's boat that he is working on is going to be used for carrying freight up and down the coast, just to prove that a fully electric solar powered boat can do it. I would imagine that in this application, the weight and the space are both concerns, though probably more space than weight. Apparently, space on a solar boat is somewhat of a precious commodity! Ill post some pics when they become available.

Model S modules would fit this nicely as well. Very small volume per kWh.
So many other advantages... more reliable, more efficient, longer lived, no hydrogen gassing, no acid gassing, no random failures shutting you down.