420A 24S ESC by aliens

[liveforphysics]

Luke, congratulations on the marriage!

In plain english, should we call this a 100V / 90A controller? Is its main benefit that it is more compact than a more common controller with similar performance? (meaning a bigger controller with the same performance would cost less?). What other controller would be this ESCs biggest competition?

Well, if you want to rate it for what it survived, it passed the 30A 90v test and the 50A 90v test, and burst out plasma about 10-15seconds.

 

[Byte]

Did anyone test a Castle Creations 160HV controller? At what kind of amps do these blow? 60/70A or somewhat?

If you look at the photo of the test stand setup they had going before this controller test, you will see what I think was a Castle HV160. I didn't ask them what they handle, but I did see a shoe-box sized box packed top to bottom with all big Castle controllers that were sadly out of magic smoke. Next time I'm over I will ask what they've been able to get a castle to survive.

Thanks, that would be very interesting to know

 

[panurge]

The HV160 is able to handle 80-100 Amps for kilometrs and much more for peaks, in the real world, at least with an astro, as in my bike and many other member's builds....but since it is a 12s ESC, that's another history...
I would like to try the Alien in my bike...and to see such a serious lab test to compare the Castle and the Alien at 12s with the same motor....
Thanks, Luke, to share these awesome tests, finally, worth the wait, congratulation and welcome.

 

[Punx0r]

How many bikes draw ~100A constantly, as opposed to just for a few seconds when accelerating or blasting up a steep hill?

I feel this is why controllers are empirically said to be good for xxx amps, but fail much below this when tested as Luke has described.

Perhaps we cannot describe a controller current rating (as opposed to a short, peak current) unless the controller reaches thermal equilibrium?

Speaking of that, I am amazed the Alien controller heatsink reached 100*C when exposed to the propwash. That's some serious heat being put into the heatsink! I guess that test would have been much shorter if the test had put the controller in a bag or pannier like on many ebikes...

 

[liveforphysics]

The HV160 is able to handle 80-100 Amps for kilometrs and much more for peaks, in the real world, at least with an astro, as in my bike and many other member's builds....but since it is a 12s ESC, that's another history...
I would like to try the Alien in my bike...and to see such a serious lab test to compare the Castle and the Alien at 12s with the same motor....
Thanks, Luke, to share these awesome tests, finally, worth the wait, congratulation and welcome.

Thank you kindly, I'm glad it was worth the wait for you. It was for me too.

How many bikes draw ~100A constantly, as opposed to just for a few seconds when accelerating or blasting up a steep hill?

On the original 650A Agni 95R powered deathbike, I doubt it ever pulled full power for more than 3seconds at a time. That means a typical 150-200A fuse would have worked fine. That doesn't make the fuse a 650A fuse, but it does mean it can work in a 650A application fine for bursts of a few seconds at a time.

Speaking of that, I am amazed the Alien controller heatsink reached 100*C when exposed to the propwash. That's some serious heat being put into the heatsink! I guess that test would have been much shorter if the test had put the controller in a bag or pannier like on many ebikes...

Well, we only saw 100c post plasma event. I've had controllers burn holes with plasma through 1/4" aluminum plate. Don't underestimate the temp rise you can achieve in a second or two of direct 1atm pressure plasma exposure.

 

[brunotollot]

Merry Christmas to everyone. Many thanks.

 

[Byte]

Any news on this one? Any people who used this product?

How is your bike going Bruno, with the Alien ESC fitted?

 

[Bazaki]

About the test that luke did.
It was a big motor, wouldn't it make any difference if the motor was a higher kv rc motor with a higher resistance. ? Maybe than 200A is possible. ?

 

[parabellum]

About the test that luke did.
It was a big motor, wouldn't it make any difference if the motor was a higher kv rc motor with a higher resistance. ? Maybe than 200A is possible. ?

Mini 20KW motor :lol: . Oh, wait mini 42KW motor according to the title.

 

[Punx0r]

It was a big motor, wouldn't it make any difference if the motor was a higher kv rc motor with a higher resistance. ? Maybe than 200A is possible. ?

A 200A load is a 200A load.

A high inductance motor would help prevent high current spikes during acceleration, but Luke's test was done under constant load (and current) conditions - the controller wasn't killed by a spike.

 

[Bazaki]

Ok, I thought it did matter.
I have a big 10kw golden motor and 18fet 24fet and 36fet controllers blow fets at 100A battery current. At a hub motor I never had this.

 

[macribs]

Maybe daft to bring up an old thread but here it goes..
Zombiess did you manage to test the new ESC from Bruno with your Cro?
Anyone else tested them 24s ESC on big hubmotors or even hi powered motors like the Revolt 120 or Astro 3220?

Would be nice to see some real world experiences with powerful motors and this controller. Seems the esc has changed in design since the dyno test was done and I wonder how they new models are in e-bike use.

 

[zombiess]

Maybe daft to bring up an old thread but here it goes..
Zombiess did you manage to test the new ESC from Bruno with your Cro?
Anyone else tested them 24s ESC on big hubmotors or even hi powered motors like the Revolt 120 or Astro 3220?

Would be nice to see some real world experiences with powerful motors and this controller. Seems the esc has changed in design since the dyno test was done and I wonder how they new models are in e-bike use.

I tested a smaller Flier version which uses the same controller brain, but less FETs on the output. I was not able to get the controller to perform smoothly. I do have one of these 420A controllers in my controller bin along with some other stuff I don't think others have ever seen. I have 2 brand new 24FET TO-247 controllers based off of this controller brain with no MOSFETs installed. Was going to try it, but I was not able to get OK throttle performance.

Just like most other RC controllers it will not do the advertised current for more than a few seconds at most. Very poor themal paths.

 

[Bazaki]

I have a 22s 420a flier esc and the startup is really hard.
even with soft startup it is very very hard.

I mean from motor being off to first start up. It goes with a bang. As if something will break if I do this too often

Is there a solution to get a soft smooth startup ?

 

[aCeMadMod]

Here are some pics of the controller Bruno sent me. I will be testing it on a 4.5" motor at Astroflight in a couple weeks.

View attachment 1



It has heatsinks top and bottom and seems like it means business with it's dual 8 gauge battery leads.

I am considering putting it on my downhill bike with the 3220 4 turn wired in delta and run it at 66 volts at the drag strip. I think it would be
good for a 75 mph run at 17 seconds if the motor doesn't go up in smoke. I think that would put the rpm at 20k or so. Not a good idea. I would
have to use restraint and keep the revs down.

hi want to know what ever happen to get this tested ,, did the esc die or 3220 t4 motor blow up. thank you

 

[mkp007]

I wonder how much of this is due to not setting the timing of the ESC?

Looks like about 25 poles on that motor. At 6700 RPM, you need switching speed greater than 200,000 to be safe.

A better test would have been to put a TC right next to the MOSFET and run at lower RPM and test different ESC settings. I have a feeling the ESC got out of sync with the motor.

Also, I think Flier Model has made some improvements to their ESC. I will be testing their 22S-500A model shortly. I do not expect 500A continous but I think 250A is possible. If the heat is dissipated correct and it is in sync with the motor than it should not be an issue.

I know that most of the Flier Model ESC are limited to 22S (92.4V max). The Alien model says 24S (100.8V max). From what I understand, the Alien ESC is built by Flier Model but I don't know for sure. Does anyone know how these work: H-bridge switching w/ N and P-channel MOSFETs? Anyway, it would be cool to understand the limitations better.

[youtube]J2ESeGcOVaw[/youtube]

 

[liveforphysics]

Driving a prop is your best case scenario with respect to maintaining sync, as it's speed is consistent (unlike a tire hitting bumps which is extremely difficult to hold sync).

It's also got ~60-70mph wind blowing over it.

Most of the RC ESCs I ran on Ebikes exploded in under 1minute.

 

[mkp007]

I agree, and that's also how it will be used so that works out well.

Did you modify/verify the settings in the ESC prior to testing?

Have you tried a sensored ESC with hall effect sensor on the motor to see how that performed? I think most EV's with large torque swings are sensored.

What was your intended application?

 

[Hillhater]

What was your intended application?

There is a clue in the forum title :wink:

 

[mkp007]

What was your intended application?

There is a clue in the forum title :wink:

Ah, E-bike. Do the majority of e-bikes have sensored controllers? Also, low kV high torque motors? This test seems opposite of what would be used for an e-bike (i.e. high rpm, sensorless). Maybe that wasn't the point of the test. confused.

 

[Dauntless]

We need a new thread that's as much fun as this one was. Oh, the anticipation, the razzing, the explosions videos and pics. . . .

 

[Bazaki]

There is an 800 amp flier esc now.

 

[mkp007]

There is an 800 amp flier esc now.

My guess is the 800A watercooled "boat" version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fli...-for-RC-boat-programming-box/32693130599.html

Is the same as the 500A aircooled "airplane" version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Paramotor-Paraglider-brushless-ESC-90V-500A/32759082255.html

Except of course the cooling method and the number/gauge of input/output cables. I would not expect more than 350A continuous on a good day.

It will be a couple weeks before I receive my 500A ESC from Fliermodel. I will likely startup a new thread with pics and test results.

 

[parabellum]

There is an 800 amp flier esc now.

My guess is the 800A watercooled "boat" version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Fli...-for-RC-boat-programming-box/32693130599.html

Is the same as the 500A aircooled "airplane" version:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/Paramotor-Paraglider-brushless-ESC-90V-500A/32759082255.html

Except of course the cooling method and the number/gauge of input/output cables. I would not expect more than 350A continuous on a good day.

It will be a couple weeks before I receive my 500A ESC from Fliermodel. I will likely startup a new thread with pics and test results.

Looks like they just added lots of fets and caps, but it is still ESC, with dumb PWM control and no real current feedback/control. My most optimistic prediction is, it will not poop out on propeller application instantly and may even peak to 800A for few ms. For real transportation with varying load, it may survive some low power CVT application.
Hope you have a lot of fun with it and share a lot of pictures and videos.

 

[mkp007]

Here is my thread for the Fliermodel 22S 500A 25kW ESC

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=84783