gensem
100 kW
Im praying that nobody buys from mavizen, so the cell price ll drop to something more reasonable(below 50USD).
A123 20AH cells source?
- Thread starter neptronix
- Start date
Does anyone know if these are top grade genuine a123 cells? Also is a123rc.com a reputable seller? I put a couple in the checkout cart to check on shipping. Came up with free shipping or $1.50 to ship with tracking number. At $0.61 per Wh it seems like a decent price. Not sure how I would fit 22 of these cells in my bike for a 72V pack however.
999zip999
100 TW
checked the website a123rc and they are on sale for 39.99 promo. 20ah
I don't know about that, but they're pretty terrible at spamming:mauimart said:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=33620&p=488845#p488845
A123rc said:
Starson
10 W
mauimart said:
If you look at the page under "Descripiton", you will see this which makes me a bit suspicious "The 20Ah use the new HD electrode design, offering even higher capacity than the traditional ANR26650M1 design." http://a123rc.com/goods-468-Excitingly+Powerful+A+123+20ah+PRISMATIC+CELLS.html I could be wrong, but it sorrta sounds like they are selling discarded packs where the tab has been cut and they are attaching electrodes. When the buyer recieves them, they would just point out the disclaimer on the page etc. Could be wrong but caution!
Gary
boostjuice
10 kW
Starson said:
No, that is an extract from the official A123 marketing for these prismatic cells. It refers to the internal foils/slurry/electrolyte formulation being improved over the old cylindrical cells, not the tabs.
Starson
10 W
boostjuice said:
Thanks for clarifying that boostjuice. Just didn't anyone to get stuck if it were so, as I've read discussion recently on ES about some ebay venders selling those types of cells.
Gary
Hillhater
100 TW
EV TV http://jackrickard.blogspot.com/search?updated-min=2011-01-01T00:00:00-06:00&updated-max=2012-01-01T00:00:00-06:00&max-results=50 has an interesting commentary on the A123 situation including this in reference to their 20AHr pouch...
I know others have had mixed results from this vendor, but if they can actually supply good product at that price , and in volume, then there is hope !
I know others have had mixed results from this vendor, but if they can actually supply good product at that price , and in volume, then there is hope !
piwhy
100 mW
I recently asked OSN Power to get a sample of few A123 20Ah cells, they sell it for 26$ each. But effectively, what worth these cells ?
Buy some A123 cells looks like a real treasor hunt for me.
But does A123 System tried and almost succeed to control their cells sales until they were only produced in USA and it's became more difficult since they're also made in Asia ?
Buy some A123 cells looks like a real treasor hunt for me.
But does A123 System tried and almost succeed to control their cells sales until they were only produced in USA and it's became more difficult since they're also made in Asia ?
miro13car
100 kW
Look up another threards in this subforum - others bought from A123RC just recently and they are 20Ah pouches fell short of factory specifications. Also bent.
They cannot be $40 if they are meeting factory spaccs in my view - QC rejects for sure, that is what A123RC sells.
They cannot be $40 if they are meeting factory spaccs in my view - QC rejects for sure, that is what A123RC sells.
Hillhater
100 TW
Unless someone knows for sure otherwise,...from all i have read, these A123 20Ahr pouches were never made in the USA ( other than possibly pre-production samples ?) but are all produced in plants in Korea and China.
A123 have screwed up big time with their business plan ..( Fisker is their biggest customer, but they are not selling cars in any quantity, and rumoured likely to fold also !), so the pouch production plants have huge capacity under utilised and probably high stock holdings in warehouses. Knowing how difficult it is to " control" Chinese sources, it would not be surprising to find "genuine" A123 pouches finding their way onto the market, even in large quantities.
Indeed, it may even suit A123 for this to happen through the "black market" since it would ease pressure on their ageing stocks and yet absolve them from any liability should there be any more "accidents" . ! :wink:
A123 have screwed up big time with their business plan ..( Fisker is their biggest customer, but they are not selling cars in any quantity, and rumoured likely to fold also !), so the pouch production plants have huge capacity under utilised and probably high stock holdings in warehouses. Knowing how difficult it is to " control" Chinese sources, it would not be surprising to find "genuine" A123 pouches finding their way onto the market, even in large quantities.
Indeed, it may even suit A123 for this to happen through the "black market" since it would ease pressure on their ageing stocks and yet absolve them from any liability should there be any more "accidents" . ! :wink:
dnmun
1 PW
the a123 20Ah pouches labeled made in USA are produced at the a123 plant in livonia, michigan. the ones people claim are rejects likely came from liquidation of the production prototype run for the chevy volt which they lost the contract on after they built all the cells for GM.
miro13car
100 kW
production prototype cells for GM would be highest quality , meeting all specs but apparently it is not the case.
piwhy
100 mW
Anyway, the cells proposed by OSN Power seems to me to be differents from the official ones.
The specs provided by OSN Power specify a min cell capacity around 18.5Ah contrary to the 19.6Ah announced by the official spec.
So, either this is fake cells, or, as the 20ah cells ordered on A123rc, this is scrapped cells coming from A123 system plant...
edit : The OSN specs also specify a 15C maximum continous charging rate and 30C peak... I've some doubts.
The specs provided by OSN Power specify a min cell capacity around 18.5Ah contrary to the 19.6Ah announced by the official spec.
So, either this is fake cells, or, as the 20ah cells ordered on A123rc, this is scrapped cells coming from A123 system plant...
edit : The OSN specs also specify a 15C maximum continous charging rate and 30C peak... I've some doubts.
Hillhater
100 TW
do you know that for a fact ?..or just speculation ?dnmun said:
Others have a different view ..
...and this from Jack Rickards blog..liveforphysics said:
bigmoose
1 MW
piwhy said:
May I ask, was shipping included in that price or extra?
Nuts&Volts
100 W
Moose, I enquired about a 4 cell sample and was told they would be $45 shipped to my home for only 4 cells. Seems really cheap. Also price was $30 from the price sheet that AJ posted in another thread about 3 weeks ago.
I'm going to see if I can get them for $26 dollars and if they can ship a lot cheaper. I mean its only a 4-8lb package...
I'm going to see if I can get them for $26 dollars and if they can ship a lot cheaper. I mean its only a 4-8lb package...
Hillhater
100 TW
piwhy said:So, either this is fake cells, or, as the 20ah cells ordered on A123rc, this is scrapped cells coming from A123 system plant...
"Fake" pouch cells would seem to be a very unlikely scenario.
Its one thing to print fake A123 label wraps for cheap 18650 cells from another manufacturer, but for a pouch , you would have to accurately replicate the entire cells physical properties, and at least attempt a similar electrical performance. IE , they would have to actually manufacture an functional cell, and that would be unrealistic ( and probably uneconomical too ) just for a "Fake" cell to offer cheap enough to shift in quantity.
My personal opinion is that these are "real" A123 pouches, but " aged stock" that is likely to be un sellable to a commercial customer, and has been auctioned out to trade for disposal with no manufacturers warranty or official support.
oatnet
1 MW
Hillhater said:
I have video of packs being assembled from these cells at a123's facilities in Michigan. I'll have to check and see if it also says the cells are being made there. Gotta figure LFP knows though.
-JD
oatnet
1 MW
The "Dan Rather Reports" TV show's episode "Gas Pains" on 4/19/2011 does a worthy bit on a123, intended to discuss their bringing jobs to the US, but loaded with juicy video of a factory (filled with Americans) working with the 20ah cells. It appears to show labels being printed on cells, and as you can see from the picture below, cells with untrimmed pouches. You can see the tabs sticking out to the left, and the untrimmed pouch sticking way out at the top. From this, I'd believe that a123 is manufacturing 20ah cells in Michigan.
-JD
-JD
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