A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit

[999zip999]

I'm sliding plastic food wrap inbetween the cells like Ping so if I what in take apart.Them tape. Got to give it a run. A 12s is all together. Brought it to the hardware store and set it down on floor it went sap on the floor left a dark stop. Whoops. You idiot.

 

[agniusm]

I have made a pack for my scooter and didn't used anything in betwean the cells. I read here that people use paper and other stuff to put in betwean ceels, personaly, i dont see the point except if it was .5 aluminium folded which would act as a heatsing.

 

[999zip999]

Just rapped with plastic wrap so the tape dosen't stick. Looking for compession now. And better then the tupper ware on the back rack. A percet box at the 0.99 store ? Maybe custom only ?

 

[megacycle]

I have made a pack for my scooter and didn't used anything in betwean the cells. I read here that people use paper and other stuff to put in betwean ceels, personaly, i dont see the point except if it was .5 aluminium folded which would act as a heatsing.

There was a thread that Luke-live for physics was fairly active on.
Not quoting but had found that pouch cells can leak electrically through the pouch walls, so it was generally advisable to have somekind of insulating medium around each cell.
Personally my packs have a thin formica spacer for every cell, helping spacing cell connections as well as giving individual cell compression within the pack, cant understand why not to.
If you have a cell bulge or blow out will it have an impact on its neighbours me thinks may well do.
One other thing the formica spacers do oh besides being fireproof, they are a few mm bigger than the pouch so when sandwiched with thicker outer formica with ties around they are the frame without much added weight, can knock them around put them down on the floor without pzztt :lol:

 

[agniusm]

leaks, ok you have to wrap whole cell, any way you done with that cell; fire, i dont think that something will protect as they burn violently. still dont see the point myself. If one wants, maybe aluminium foil (food)?

 

[megacycle]

Not completely sure but confident, aluminum between would'nt do much for heat sinking as the tabs being the place were most of the heat will obviously migrate to, again proved by the batt expert with thermal imaging, your aluminum block design should help with that.
Your upcoming tests could show one way or another anyhow with a sensor on a block and a pouch.

My spacers weren't originally meant to be fireproof it just happens to be a bonus characteristic of a lot of cheap phenol products, like pcb's you had made, the bakelite on your Franky switch all phenol products. Good stuff.

 

[agniusm]

well, i don't know about the experts, but my dum head thinks that not the tabs we worry about but cells them selves as increased heat reduces their life time, thats why A123 was making aluminium insert with folded edges and some people received their modules in thermal paste. Here i am talking about 200+ amp draw

 

[megacycle]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15093&start=105
Thread were 20ah pouch gets crucified.

Sorry your right there, recommending individual insulating and an aluminum spreader at big amps sorry about that misinformation was a few hundred threads ago of reading :?
There is a certain spot in particular they say that gets hotter, gee there's a hell of a lot to know.

 

[agniusm]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=15093&start=105
Thread were 20ah pouch gets crucified.

Sorry your right there, recommending individual insulating and an aluminum spreader at big amps sorry about that misinformation was a few hundred threads ago of reading :?
There is a certain spot in particular they say that gets hotter, gee there's a hell of a lot to know.

It's all good. I like people rising question, as this makes me rethink, double check stuff. we all learn here and the more we learn the better stuff we can make. Companies have limited recources designing their products, here we have wast global enterprise

 

[ohzee]

Should get my kit today. Still cycling my pouches though so going to be a week before I can build.. Still look
forward to checking it out.

On my 20s compression battery I did not put anything between the cells and have had no issues.

 

[docnjoj]

LFP's test and thermal imaging clearly showed the big increase in heat at the cathode tab only. The rest of the cell got a bit warm but nowheres near the cathode temp. I am considering using heat resistant oven paper (silicone coated for baking) as preventor of rubbing pouches and shorts but I don't believe running at 2C max there will be any problems irrespective of whether the cells press together or not. I do plan to use masonite with holes as my end covers and use filament tape to wrap it. Then perhaps heat shrink, if I can get it big enough to wrap the pack. Should be well protected and not terrible looking. I really do not want to make it ugly after the beauty of agniusms kit. I will aim for professional appearance, unlike my previous aluminum trikes which looked like beavers chewed the shapes.
otherDoc

 

[cassschr1]

I'm using acetate or a clear plastic used for overhead projectors between cells cut to 6x9 on paper cutter.

 

[agniusm]

Should get my kit today. Still cycling my pouches though so going to be a week before I can build.. Still look
forward to checking it out.

On my 20s compression battery I did not put anything between the cells and have had no issues.

Why do you cycle your cells? How many cycles? i have just done one full cycle and off i go.

LFP's test and thermal imaging clearly showed the big increase in heat at the cathode tab only. The rest of the cell got a bit warm but nowheres near the cathode temp. I am considering using heat resistant oven paper (silicone coated for baking) as preventor of rubbing pouches and shorts but I don't believe running at 2C max there will be any problems irrespective of whether the cells press together or not. I do plan to use masonite with holes as my end covers and use filament tape to wrap it. Then perhaps heat shrink, if I can get it big enough to wrap the pack. Should be well protected and not terrible looking. I really do not want to make it ugly after the beauty of agniusms kit. I will aim for professional appearance, unlike my previous aluminum trikes which looked like beavers chewed the shapes.
otherDoc

I got some heat shrink wrap and it was a bit narrow to squeeze kit plates as well. I would suggest getting something big enough to cover the kit as well then just leave some 10mm on each end so it curves around the edge when heated. Also you can use 2mm aluminium sheet on top and bottom of your cells. This will level your pack with the kit nicely and give you solid protection for outside cells. You need to make notches for end blocks thou. I wouldn't even bother taping it. Just use some sticky tape to hold plates in place, slide heat shrink and treat it. I think that will be solid and even pack that you can basically lick like ice cream

As for inserts i think A123 made it wrapping cells in to aluminium. I know for fact that these cells don't like to sit on top of each other, rather vertical. I don't think however it is a concern for small packs.

 

[docnjoj]

Well my kit showed up.........................for a brief moment and then the post Office took it back! I wasn't home to sign for it so I have to go get it tomorrow. Can't wait! I think that fiberboard is much easier for me to work with than 1/8 alloy, but it now comes in pretty colors too. Pretty cheap and waterproof in 1/8 in thickness and has a water resistant covering. I am still trying to locate some big enough shrink wrap; as the batteries are too big for the stuff from ebike.ca. Someone mentioned some about 300mm around but I can't seem to find it.
otherdoc

 

[agniusm]

Well my kit showed up.........................for a brief moment and then the post Office took it back! I wasn't home to sign for it so I have to go get it tomorrow. Can't wait! I think that fiberboard is much easier for me to work with than 1/8 alloy, but it now comes in pretty colors too. Pretty cheap and waterproof in 1/8 in thickness and has a water resistant covering. I am still trying to locate some big enough shrinl wrap; as the batteries are too big for the stuff from ebike.ca. Someone mentioned some about 300mm around but I can't seem to find it.
otherdoc

ouch, what a miss, not long now thou, at least it came through. i have done mine alloy plates with angle grinder, easy job, and it acts as a heatsink, just an option.

 

[ohzee]

Should get my kit today. Still cycling my pouches though so going to be a week before I can build.. Still look
forward to checking it out.

On my 20s compression battery I did not put anything between the cells and have had no issues.

Ok international shipments are a bit slower for my local post office.. TOMORROW it is.. maybe I will have all my batteries cycled by then.

Ordered me a 150amp 24S bms from ev assemble. Wanted a similar high power ping one w/lights , but 20s is the highest they have.. Also
the high power 20s one I have is still lacking in terms of amps it can put out.

 

[999zip999]

Ping told me to solder up the shunt for higher up. But there are better methods then just solder to up your amp output.

 

[megacycle]

Should get my kit today. Still cycling my pouches though so going to be a week before I can build.. Still look
forward to checking it out.

On my 20s compression battery I did not put anything between the cells and have had no issues.

Ok international shipments are a bit slower for my local post office.. TOMORROW it is.. maybe I will have all my batteries cycled by then.

Ordered me a 150amp 24S bms from ev assemble. Wanted a similar high power ping one w/lights , but 20s is the highest they have.. Also
the high power 20s one I have is still lacking in terms of amps it can put out.

If you don't mind how much was the bms
How are you cycling your pack eg rates.

 

[docnjoj]

I found some large diameter heat shrink tubing here:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/300MM-191M-PVC-HEAT-SHRINK-TUBING-TUBE-BLUE-3FT-/320788267803
They have up to 450 mm. but I think the 300 will be big enough. The diagonal of an A123 6 cell pack is about 170 mm and they list the diameter of the 450 mm as 230 mm so maybe..........

http://www.ebay.com/itm/300MM-191M-PVC-HEAT-SHRINK-TUBING-TUBE-BLUE-3FT-/320788267803

Any comments are certainly welcome, especially someone who remembers geometry better than me!
otherDoc

 

[ohzee]

Should get my kit today. Still cycling my pouches though so going to be a week before I can build.. Still look
forward to checking it out.

On my 20s compression battery I did not put anything between the cells and have had no issues.

Ok international shipments are a bit slower for my local post office.. TOMORROW it is.. maybe I will have all my batteries cycled by then.

Ordered me a 150amp 24S bms from ev assemble. Wanted a similar high power ping one w/lights , but 20s is the highest they have.. Also
the high power 20s one I have is still lacking in terms of amps it can put out.

If you don't mind how much was the bms
How are you cycling your pack eg rates.

So it's similar to this BMS http://www.evassemble.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6&products_id=46

but it's a 100A model 150A peak for 10 seconds.

Probably to much for me initially , but down the road at least I will have the power available.

each of my 20ah cells I charge to full - discharge & note - charge & note.

As long as they are over 18ah I figure I am g2g.. I have about 6 extras so I can afford to be a bit picky if needed.

Afterwards in groups of 6 I am doing as I seen someone else and paralleling the cells together overnight hoping
it helps them balance.

May not be the best way , but for me it works and my 20s battery I built rox.

the ping BMS I love and it balances the cells so well.. this new BMS is supposed to take power from higher cells
and xfer them to the lower.. we will see.. anyway the ping BMS is all 1 layer and while I could add some solder
I worry about it breathing if I use it for more then it's intended..

This other BMS shows 4 levels on the web page.. the pdf for instructions though shows 2 so I am not 100% what I
will end up with , but regardless it will be a new learning experience.

Sorry for the rambling this stuff is quite exciting to me.

oh forgot BMS is 186$US plus shipping total was 213$

 

[agniusm]

Calculate diameter: perimeter of 6s kis is 48+48+160+160=416mm then diameter is 416/pi=132.48mm, make it 140 or 150mm and you will be fine.

 

[megacycle]

That bms looks the biz, pretty small and light too, might have to do a mod on that 30A charge though
Jst's, have they proved themselves for big A's balancing
When does it arrive, im excited as you are hope it works well, very good find.
How much to Oz hmm, i'll be running 5404 and 4080, so this level of bms could be for me too.

IMO if charge can be shuffled around well why burn charge in balance resistors.
Big fan of floating cap balancing been building one myself with 2A multipole relays with supercaps,
another toy project shelved till i can get lots of cheap high value low ESR pulse caps
Im very sure the high frequency intelligent switching versions like this are far superior.
Would look forward to seeing that beauty in action .

I've only got 22 pouches for A123 pack initially was going to 7s x3
with a spare but now decided on 8s :? because got 6s x 6 8Ah zippy lipo bricks and want similar charge/bms setups hopefully simplifying my charging regimes.
There plugged in to a modded RSP 3000, 3kW semi-portable charging seen 80A on fire up, got to work on that precharge reckon those output caps would go out with a serious mess if i keep abusing them

I made my A123 pack with an internal bus disconnector so i could isolate all cells individually occasionally i can parallel them as you mention no harm in instant balancing with A123 beasties.

 

[megacycle]

They do a 150A it was US299 and AS30 shipping too tempting.
When will i learn :lol:
Thanks for that info Ohzee.

 

[docnjoj]

Calculate diameter: perimeter of 6s kis is 48+48+160+160=416mm then diameter is 416/pi=132.48mm, make it 140 or 150mm and you will be fine.

Thanks! I knew it was in there somewhere! Just not in my head
otherDoc

 

[deVries]

I can report the kits are smaller than how these "look" or seem to be on video or pics. So, mine came Thursday, and I did not have to sign. (Must be the package lock box.) :wink:

I have two small plastic bags of hardware for each board. Will have to open & examine 16s boards in better light tomorrow, but everything looks good. Though I have a suggestion about shipping packaging...

IMPORTANT SUGGESTION FOR PARTS LOSS PREVENTION: I suggest taping the tiny plastic baggies of hardware to the inside of a much larger sized baggie (or envelope) too, so the tiny baggies can't slide around and get trapped or caught into the seams of the shipping box. The four end-seams of my (book?) box were not sealed by tape and bowed open creating an opening for the tiny parts baggies to slide into, so the tiny baggies might have been caught in those open seams and could have "leaked" & lost the hardware contents of small parts if trapped/caught cut & damaged at one of the four open end seams. It is definitely possible the tiny baggies could have been pulled out of the package or torn open at least partially & the contents lost. I suggest putting the tiny baggies inside a bigger baggie or big envelope inside the package to prevent this.

There will be all bolts, blocks, spacers, connectors + pins, heat shrink wrap included.

I didn't get any shrink wrap, which was initially planned to be included in the kits? Is heat shrink available for my kit size of 16s? Is there anything else not included with the original plans for these kits???

Look forward to getting my cells to assemble the battery. This looks like a very good kit design, imo, of course, actual assembly & use will be the "true test" for a solid recommendation.

The conducting material on the circuit board is what grade aluminum or ??? Thanks for offering these kits.