A123 AMP20M1HD-A Battery pack kit

JRP3 said:
NO-OX-ID Special A does not have any metal in suspension that I'm aware of, it's not NOALOX. NO-OX-ID is supposed to be rubbed onto the contact surfaces as a very thin film, not glopped on. I used it to lubricate my terminal bolt threads on my CALB prismatic pack as well as on the copper connecting straps. Three years so far and no issues.
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I'm wondering what's the chemical action it has on the aluminium surface to help dc conductivity.
Be interesting to look at the msds, can't be petrol jelly then :?: .
 
question for drbass, came across your video on victpower a123 discharge test at 100amp, you got about 18ahr for one cell,
do you know how much time it took to reach low voltage, or point where volts dropped off? ( sorry if this wrong thread)
 
It looks to be just a step up from good old petrol jelly, aka vaseline, had a pot as an apprentice for cleaning switch contacts, according to the pdf, i posted earlier on, it's a higher temp product.
It appears it is just diplaced, somewhat, at the connection face under pressure, so even compression under a block would be good.
I'm really skeptical when i see that good old fashioned marketing full of praise and no criticism or real msds :?
smells of snake oil, sorry doc, no evidence to the contrary.
I'd try vaseline $2 a pot and see if you get a similar result.
Aluminium oxidises immediatley, so without chemical action how does it really improve conductivity :?:
Sorry for raining on doc and agniusm hijacking somewhat, reckon Aluminium is still an ok choice as the blocks have a large contact area, just have to treat the contact faces accordingly and should be good.
 
I don't think it improves conductivity directly, it just prevents corrosion and oxidation, which of course degrade conductivity. Some boating mag did a test with it and a bunch of other goop and it did the best at preserving the connection and conductivity.
 
First, aluminum is used to clamp two tabs together and therefore oxidation is irrelevant. Second, i would keep my motor and controller dry, batteries even more so as they are most expensive part in this business. I know, you can use Teflon or Kevlar etc. materials, spec. coating and go down this road till you cant dig any deeper, but ask yourself who's gonna pay cosmic price for battery assembly kit for bike??? Rocket maybe...
As i stated many times, this is DIY kit for the price given, and everybody is welcome to do any modifications they like.
I do like criticism, but when it goes beyond whats considered reasonable in given situations, starts to annoy.
Sorry about that.
 
agniusm said:
First, aluminum is used to clamp two tabs together and therefore oxidation is irrelevant. Second, i would keep my motor and controller dry, batteries even more so as they are most expensive part in this business. I know, you can use Teflon or Kevlar etc. materials, spec. coating and go down this road till you cant dig any deeper, but ask yourself who's gonna pay cosmic price for battery assembly kit for bike??? Rocket maybe...
As i stated many times, this is DIY kit for the price given, and everybody is welcome to do any modifications they like.
I do like criticism, but when it goes beyond whats considered reasonable in given situations, starts to annoy.
Sorry about that.
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Sorry just assumed they were current carrying because you specified copper and then aluminium.
What they are just clamps :? why are you specifiying metal at all, could just use phenolic resin board.
 
Hi, have done a sketch for a hole punch. This could be manufactured of a block of aluminum, for pins one could use 3.5mm drill bit. Slide the tab in and punch it with a hammer. What do you think?
Punch.png
 
I guess you had better make it narrower that the distance between the 2 tabs? I would hate to have them contact through it side to side on 1 cell. :shock: Maybe make the body plastic or nylon?
otherDoc
 
More on this plastic clamping method. I have been looking at different opions. Maybe the clip on a pants hanger ect. Whatever you would build a 16s for 48v and most all packs are set for 8s- 12s-16s -24s some 18s- 20s. But not as much out there for support.
 
thanks zip999
i've punched holes just with hole punch in the tabs, went very well. But when I put a bolt through one hole there were sparks,
it was the aluminium hole, I cant figure out what was shorting, i'm thinking the plastic outer layer may have a conductive layer in it? it got me stumped where the sparks came from. I was just messing with one cell puting a bolt through the aluminium tab and some sparks flew. The only thing the bolt contacted with was the plastic outer covering. Roofing/gutter silicone may be useful in this build, i've used it to seal up cells before which i've accidentally punctured. Silicone may also be useful to stop shorting.
Haven't found any plastic clips to try yet but should have some in the next few days.
 
agniusm said:
Hi, have done a sketch for a hole punch. This could be manufactured of a block of aluminum, for pins one could use 3.5mm drill bit. Slide the tab in and punch it with a hammer. What do you think?
Click to expand...
Is it really necessary?
 
Not necessary, handy. I bought vw scirocco and probably will be using a123 cells. now imagine drilling holes for 250v 60ah pack!?
 
Did the spark come from the bolt hole and bolt or from the top of pouch bottom of tap. Does it have some plastic around the top of cell - bottom of tap.
 
the spark came from right on the edge of the tab, there was a black mark there,
I think it must have shorted via the plastic/foil , it was the aluminium tab.

below shows pic of where the sparks occurred, black circle shows where the bolt head was located ( it overlapped onto the plastic), red dot shows where the sparks were. It seems only possible that the short was via the plastic ( I doubt there was anything metal on the table at the time it occurred) note the hole I've punched in the cell pictured is a different cell not the one that shorted
short.jpg

I worked out a way to join the tabs together that seems to work quite well and very simple/quick process.
The cells I have , have very short tabs
tab1.jpg
What I've done is fold one tab, slip the other tab into it and squash them together, that alone is not sufficient,
so I then used a tiny punch ( screwdriver in my case) to hold the copper/aluminium in place.
View attachment 1
It makes quite a secure joint for low amp applications ( in my case about 20amps max). Once the tabs are joined the cells need to be taped together as any movement between the cells will weaken the joint.
When I do the rest of the joints I'll use a bit of vaseline inside the joint, and some roofing silicone to keep moisture out.
I think it will last ok for my use, as long as the cells cant move against each other it should be ok.
I do need to pack between the tabs when I'm doing the punching which is a bit of work.
I've used some kapton tap to stop any shorting occuring and some water proof tape over the kapton.
 
i would put some window foam with the adhesive on one side just above the top of the cell or and under and inbetween the taps the full width. Or something better than 7mm at home depot. maybe it melts or something, but what does Ping use. Look at a ping rebuild and see the foam.
 
Hair clips, sticky tape, foam, goop, good choices, a couple of these state of the art cells could deliver over a kW into a short :?
 
not sure if this video has been mentioned, it shows very quick simple method to 'tin' the aluminium plate,
I have no idea what the paste he uses in the video, someone on here might know, it would solve the problem of how
to solder the aluminium tab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2xIKqry3ig
 
whatever said:
not sure if this video has been mentioned, it shows very quick simple method to 'tin' the aluminium plate,
I have no idea what the paste he uses in the video, someone on here might know, it would solve the problem of how
to solder the aluminium tab
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2xIKqry3ig
Click to expand...

I like it! I got that he says it's a special paste designed for soldering aluminum and having the solder included. I don't think that helps much though, because I checked that google translate gives you basically as much info.

When I saw the video [with sound off] I thought he was clamping glass plates to the cell. Do you think that's accurate? I was just wondering if metal wouldn't be better, or if the improvement isn't necessary. In thinking that out loud, I realized there's a much higher risk of shorting if you use metal, so I would avoid that.
 
When I saw the video [with sound off] I thought he was clamping glass plates to the cell. Do you think that's accurate? I was just wondering if metal wouldn't be better, or if the improvement isn't necessary. In thinking that out loud, I realized there's a much higher risk of shorting if you use metal, so I would avoid that.
Click to expand...

The glass seems like a good idea. Some temperd glass can withstand force and a fair bit of heat. I to would love to know what the solder system was that he used. It could save us a lot of headaches.
otherDoc
 
JRP3 said:
Maybe this stuff? http://www.solder-it.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=89
Click to expand...

Don't know but that black paste stuff the guy in the film used was unknown to me. Solder-it has been around for a long time but I've never used any. A good test would be to try to solder heavy duty aluminum foil. I tried with scratching and flux and conventional solder and it was a bad fail!
otherDoc
 
From his comment section, google translate:

The gray paste is a special product for aluminum in which the tin is already included.

This may be the so-tinned Aluableiter as the cells with any normal solder. be soldered to a Lötplatine.

Since the Verzinnvorgang runs quickly when the arrester is not hot cell input!
Click to expand...

Solder-It Alu Paste No!

You can buy it in a few days in ebay.de
Click to expand...

So I guess it's a new product?
 
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