Advice please

[mthead]

New to the forum and dumb as a stump. After 50+ years of cigarette smoking I'd like to pedal less, a whole lot less. Been lurking here for a while and reading the kit ads on e-bay and am still confused. I'd like to buy a hub motor kit and have some questions.

What size? I weigh 240 lbs and want to carry some additional weight. Maybe even pull a trailer. There are no hills here in southern Louisiana. I don't want to go fast and 10 miles is the maximum distance I travel.

Would using a trike be a better alternative to a bike and trailer?
Which dealers are recommended?
Lower cost alternatives to the Life-po batteries?
1000 watt, 48 volt? Or would something less powerful meet my needs?

Basicly, I just want to go to and from the grocery store every day or two and feel silly driving my old Suburban around town but at 65, I have trouble hauling a load on my bike. Those 40lb bags of dog food keep getting heavier.

Cost is a major issue.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Toshi]

Nine Continents hub motor.
36V 12Ah of NiCad in a frame bag.
36V 20A pedal-first controller and a Cycle Analyst.
Two torque arms.
Add in a Bob trailer for cargo.

Voila.

www.ebikes.ca

 

[jerryt]

Welcome to the forum. I identify with virtually everything you said about yourself including smoking, weight, age, flat terrain, etc. No comment about being dumb

I have a kit bike; an eZee kit mounted on a Breezer step-thru frame for easier mount/dismount due to arthritis.

The kit comes with a 36v-10ah lithium battery including a motor mounted on a wheel with tire, battery and charger, carry bag, throttle, and controller with all wiring and costs a little more due to the battery and quality (roughly $1400 + your bike). I also bought the recommended cycle analyst to monitor everything. You can buy it with cheaper batteries for roughly $1000. Here's the link and some good information.
http://ebikes.ca/store/store_ezee.php

It carries me 20 mile +/- on flat terrain with minimal to no pedaling including 20-30 lbs of groceries in my panniers (no trailer-just extra fun trips). I generally cruise between 10-12 mph although top speed is about 20 mph. I have good tires (Schwalb) built for resistance to flats because of my weight.

There's plenty of info here about trailers and three wheelers. Just do a search. Someone else may comment on a less expensive set-up.
Good luck

 

[Drunkskunk]

the Nine continents motor is good, but a little fast, and the Pedal fiirst means just that, you have to pedal it first. Its a little simpler to set up but Not realy what you want I bet, and I have a Nine continents motor. It hauls me at 180 pounds on a light bike ok, but 240+ 60 more pounds of whatever.. its going to struggle.

you're also going to want an imediate start controller. its nice to be able to just sit on it, twist the throttle, and go.

For hauling weight the best option might be something like a BMC 600 geared hub. they make great torque and can haul a good load. Not the cheapest motor, but a good motor for hauling.

Another good motor would be something like a Crystalyte 4011. its cheaper and not as powerfull, but can certianly do the job.

Either would be fine on a trike, though you will probably have to mount to the front fork, so be sure the fork is steel, and use torque arms.

 

[dogman dan]

I built a trike as a grocery getter, then found because I believed the sellers ad, had a bike that would go there, but not back. A big battery purchase later, I found that actually carrying weight in the trikes basket, and hitting any bumps at all bent the rims like mad. This was the schwinn meridia. I turned the trike into a bike, and maybe some day the back two wheels and basket will be made into a trailer. I thought the trike would be perfect, but found that at ebike speeds, 15-20 mph, it was very tricky to steer and near impossible to dodge a pothole. It just had disadvantages I hadn't thought of. I'd ridden schwinn trikes before, and they handle great at 5 mph, but lousy above 10 mph. A good recumbent trike is likely to handle MUCH better. Anyway, my opinon of a trike after trying it.

For hauling, the larger number crystalyte motors will do real well like the 4011, though they have somewhat slow top speed. This may or may not be a plus to you. For good grunt, and a bit more speed, gearmotors like the bmc 400 watt or the 600 may be good. They climb hills good, and if it climbs it can haul too. Also ebikes-ca's ezee motor. And also a good hauler would be a large number of the crystalyte 5300 series motors. Those ones take expensive batteries to run, so that would be the thing if you planned on hauling bags of cement, but for dog food, the others would work fine.

Lastly, if you are on a tight budget, and the haul is really short, like 5 miles round trip, a Wilderness Energy kit would do it, though hauling that much weight would put a strain on it. But it would do it. The same motor is sold by High Tech Bikes, with a 10 ah lifepo4 battery at a pretty good price, but the ezee kit would be a better choice for hauling.

On batteries, the nicads work a lot better than a lot of people think, and It's why I just bought some from ebikes-ca. They are just about the most idiot proof chemistry out there. They also sell nimh packs that are 12 ah, but I think for that price, I'd buy lifepo4 instead. One option though, especially with a trailer and no hills, is simply larger sla batteries. A good set of 18 ah sla's will carry a lot easier in a trailer, so that is a definite option. Just make sure you get an EV type battery, not one for emergency power, or trolling motors. Think wheelchair batteries. If you went with a WE kit, you could always add more batteries to the pack and carry all of it in the trailer.

Dollar for dollar, the best deal I know of right now is the Aotema front hub and 10 ah lifepo4 from high tech bikes. He has good prices while he builds a reputation so get em while they last. Other choices may work better, but I bet the aotema would still do the job. The main difference would be less range with a less ideal motor choice.

 

[XRuss]

Here is another possible for you. It will get you going on the cheep. The 36v 12ah sla's should get you through the summer or so then you can upgrade.

I have had good luck with WE BD(BRUSHED)36 that i put into service late last summer. I needed some help for the same reason as you. Found that I can peddle as little or as much as I need. Plus a hell of a lot of fun.

Still running the orig sla's but will need to replace this summer. I like the looks of making a pack up using the BOSH fatpacks.

I'm pushing 78 and found that I don't bounce as good as i once did. Keep in mind that roadrash stings like hell.....

check this out http://www.bernsonev.com/wilderness-con ... p-121.html

good luck on your selection.

 

[dnmun]

i gotta reply to this, since i grew up where the hills stop, in alexandria. been so homesick i just wasted 3 hours the other day cruising around the south end of avoyelles parish on google earth. looking at the roadside pictures where i used to drive going to our farms or in the woods, can see how much and how little has changed in 40 years.

if you build a trike, there will be room for a gun rack. above the seat and behind you, so you can always take the lane, since there is no shoulder anywhere. it will eliminate some of the open hostility to bikes also, i suspect.

this will be for in town, lafayette or new iberia? do you ride there now or thought through how difficult it will be to ride a trike because of the width? trike means real money too. most here convert mountain bikes, because of the suspension and performance, but there is a big base of cruiser bikers too.

riding in the rain is the other big concern, like in the NW here, where the hall sensors in the motor end up shorted from water leaking into the hub. if repairing them is gonna be a problem maybe think of going with the brushed motors. dogman has an old EVGlobal which he likes, the WE bd36(or brushless aotema) would be a good choice also since that would be a way to avoid the hall sensors and pedal first controller setups.

if 40lbs of dogfood is it, then you can tie that across the back on top of the panniers on each side where you can carry the batteries, and then use a front hub motor.

if you can stop smoking, that will help pay for good batteries in no time. i know it is as hard as pulling stumps, but worth it because you can pedal and go faster and farther. plus it makes food taste better.

flat helps a lot, people don't realize how flat, but you could even run with a 24V EVGlobal i suspect, swap out the batteries since they are always dead and rebuild with a 36V lifepo4 pack and 36V controller,24mph. then you are set for the rest of your life. i smoked for 22 years, figure i got maybe 5-10 left because of it.

not gonna be many EVGlobals around there on CL like up here, so i suspect you will do best converting a mtb, or road bike with front hub, of which there are many choices, like you see here. you could even run a bafang at 48V without burning up the gears i suspect. but buy the best batteries you can, lead is getting so expensive it is as cheap to go nicad or lifepo4 anymore when the weight is a factor too. bon jour, dm

 

[mthead]

Hey! Thanks to all for the info so far. Especially good to know about the poor handling of a trike as I was leaning that direction. I have an Atlas trike that's built for hauling loads in a warehouse but I think a bike is probably the best choice. Got an older Trek 18 speed but would rather use something like a Schwinn cruiser. Do they have steel forks?

I'm just outside of Slidell, dnmun. Narrow roads with no shoulders are a problem here too. Originally from N California (SF Peninsula) but I like it here much better.

Any comments about this sort of kit would be appreciated.

 

[morph999]

mthead, to test whether your bike has steel forks, just take a magnet and put it up to the fork and if it sticks, then it's steel.

I 2nd the nine continent motor but might want to get a start immediate controller, though instead of the pedal first one. Then find a trailer for your bike somewhere and that's that.

Well, either the ezee motor or the nine continent would be good. You can find both of them from http://ebikes.ca

 

[morph999]

Any comments about this sort of kit would be appreciated.

That's a golden motor kit. Most people don't recommend them on this forum because they've had overheating problems and if you are going to be carrying 40lbs of dogfood on the back, we aren't sure how it will hold up.

 

[Drunkskunk]

Any comments about this sort of kit would be appreciated.

That's a golden motor kit. Most people don't recommend them on this forum because they've had overheating problems and if you are going to be carrying 40lbs of dogfood on the back, we aren't sure how it will hold up.

Yep, thats a Goldenmotor Kit. The worst of the usable motors. It is functional, but everything else is better.
Its also a 500 watt motor.
Its not that they are lying on ebay, its more that they have devised a new way to rate there motor, giving peak watage instead of the standard wattage of a cruising motor at full speed, and 36 volts.

90% of the reputable companies are giving the wattage of the motor series at full speed and at 36 volts
the actual wattage used during starts and hills is higher, and would also be higher if they increase the voltage to 48 volts.

As an example, a reputable company will sell a 500 watt motor as a 500 watt motor, even if they have an option for 48 volts. And at 48 volts, it really runs around 700 watts and handles it just fine, but it's still a 500 watt motor. A less than reputable company will round that 700 watts up to 750, so they can call it a 1 horse power motor, and sell it as a more powerful alternative to the competitions 500 watt motors.

Just something to watch out for.


Trikes are scary at speeds above 15mph, and the lighter weight they are, the more squirly they become. But those Atlas trikes are a bit heavier, and there are motors devoted to exactly that sort of trike.
The Crystalyte 5305, and the 4011, 4012, and 4013 were all built almost entirely for shop carts and rickshaws. A 5305, a 35 or 40 amp controller, and a 36v 20Ah Ping LiFePO4 battery would get you pretty close to 20 miles round trip at a minimum, and probably a lot farther. The 5305 is a true 750 watt motor, and much bigger than that Ebay claimed 1000 watt.

 

[XRuss]

You ask if a Schwinn Cruiser has a steel fork. The Schwinn Point Beach Cruiser does but the remainder is alum. My Son put a front hub on one and it is working real well. I like it enough that I have purchased one too and will shift my front hub over soon as the wx here in NW starts to dry out some. The dropouts on that fork are welded on, not pinched and stamped.

http://hightekbikes.com/htb-500cn.html

 

[Rassy]

Hi mthead. As far as trike speed is concerned it all depends on the trike. My main grocery getter is a delta recumbent trike, (two wheels in the back), and it is very comfortable at 20 MPH. It is powered by a trailler with two hub motors, so all the extra weight is on the trailer and the trike only has to accommodate my 210 pounds.

On the other hand, my favorite ride is my LWB recumbent bike with a Bafang in the front wheel, but unless I add my powered trailer there is very little carrying ability.

I really answered here to warn you. I started my electric bike experience with less than $200 worth of bike and scooter parts. Now several years later several thousand has been spent. The list includes the trike, the recumbent bike, the LiFePO4 batteries, brushed hub motors, brushless geared hub motors, etc.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[biohazardman]

Hey! Thanks to all for the info so far. Especially good to know about the poor handling of a trike as I was leaning that direction. I have an Atlas trike that's built for hauling loads in a warehouse but I think a bike is probably the best choice. Got an older Trek 18 speed but would rather use something like a Schwinn cruiser. Do they have steel forks?

I'm just outside of Slidell, dnmun. Narrow roads with no shoulders are a problem here too. Originally from N California (SF Peninsula) but I like it here much better.

Any comments about this sort of kit would be appreciated.

I have a GM 36V 500Watt rear motor. At 36V it did everything I needed for over 1500 miles I then converted to 48V so I would not have to pedal up the hills and now it is much better. With some 2500 hard miles on it has been great. I use it off road sometimes it has a lot of grunt help me up the crazy steep but short dirt hills I decide to climb. I weigh in at 190lbs. The wheels that the kit came with are junk and I did not use them the throttle and controller died in the 1500 plus mile area. Controller failure may have been my fault because of the poor wiring I did in a couple spots. The motor itself is great. Don't cheap out your health and even life depends on the frame you decide to build with. Make sure it is rated for more than your weight. There have been a few catastrophic failures that have put people in the hospital when they went over the bars when the motor got loose or broke the forks. That thought alone was enough to steer me clear of them although if I was a few years younger and a few pounds lighter things may have been different.

The bike dnmun speaks of is an old 1991 US made 7075 aluminum Schwinn. I got it last year off craigslist. It was near new still had the nubs on the tires. I can feel the frame give a bit now and then but no problems as yet. I have a one wheeled trailer that I got for extra batteries and range have only used it a couple of times.
For the workhorse you describe I would probly go steel frame. You can pick up the two wheeled kid hauling type trailers for cheap now and again off of craigslist many are good for 50+ lbs. Good luck on your build and take your time so you get it the way you want it.
Your second build will go easier can you say addiction. ;^)

Pic of bike in the battery tech section here scrole down. http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6586&start=15

 

[dnmun]

i saw duane's 48V1000W golden motor when he came by. he has a schwinn which you may like, very upright, suspension in front, hubmotor on back, big panniers, shock post seat, foxpower lifepo4 pack, i really like it.

maybe he has some pictures around, but this is a very upright setup, so you get a lotta visibility. maybe he has some pictures of it somewhere, i shoulda snapped some pictures when he came by. also the way he did his throttle is unique and it would be of interest to alotta people how you did that. eh?

 

[mthead]

WOW! I gotta say I'm really impressed by the quality of the information in this forum

You all have given me much to think about and a lot more knowledge than I had yesterday. Looks like I'll have to save a few more bucks to get the ride I want but that's a lot better than spending a few hundred for an inadequate setup or worse, a dangerous one.

I did go over the forks once when I was about 11 or 12. Made the mistake of tying my Pitbull to the bike and he decided to run under a parking lot chain in hot pursuit of a cat. He went under, I went over and the bike stopped. The rope broke and my dog didn't come home 'till the next day. Smart dog!

 

[kazbluesky]

I'm 260 pounds, I often carry my little girl of 36 pounds on the cross-bar (we went for a ride along the river today actually) if it is flat where you are you will have absolutely no problem with a 36v 9 conts kit. Get it from Ampedbikes.com and it can come as a rear wheel and then you will have no worries about torque arms and stuff, it is immediate start too. It will also automatically do 48v if you want to get a bigger battery later too.

I'm very very happy with my kit, and now Im at 48v it will accelerate up most hills except the extreme ones, with the extreme one's I just need to pedal a bit too. It accelerates off smartly and at 36v will get you near 27mph (30 or 31 at 48v).

Goof luck

 

[dogman dan]

Back to the trike. It just depends on the speed you are looking to ride. I ragged pretty hard on it, but the schwinn trike does very well at the slower speeds. When I put a brushed WE hub on it, It ran 25 mph at 36v and 29 mph at 48v. Trying to go a long distance, I put about 50 pounds of sla's in the basket and drove 25 mph till wheels bent. The real problem was the rider :lol: . A slower hub on a trike, like a crystalyte 4011 would likely work well, running less than 15 mph, it would haul good and go forever. The trike is avaliable cheap by online order to the nearest wallmart. One other thing I didn't mention about the trike, and it applies to a cruiser, is the single speed gearing was too low for an ebike. Going faster, you can't pedal anymore, and my butt would go to sleep. Again, solved easilly by riding slower. I'm just not a ride slow kinda guy.

On the golden motor, the high tech bikes kit is a much better motor for the same money. The thing about direct ordering from china is, any warrantee replacement has to come from there, by slow shipping. Unfortunately it's not so uncommon for a new ebike kit to have a controller that doesn't last, so a north american vendor is a real plus. For what you will be doing, a clyte 4011 may be the ideal thing.

I am trying, not too hard, to sell in the for sale section, an old brushed motor, and a Heinzmann gear motor from an EV global. Both have drawbacks that may be a problem for what you want to do. The brushed motor gets real hot if it is run slower than 15 mph. It just makes heat instead of motion when lugged. I don't recomend that one to anybody anymore, unless your ride is very short. The EV global motor is a really great motor for what it can do, and it really sucks for what it can't. Basicly, it, like the other brushed motor, is designed for a ride the length of the battery it came with. So if rode continuously, it gets hot in about 5 miles. What the Ev global does real well, and was designed for, is to climb a hill for 15 minuites or so, and then coast down the other side for 15 minuites or so. Used intermittently like that, they stay cool, and reallly perform well. So if your round trip to the grocery is 5 miles, it's perfect. But in your flat terrain, I think you would have overheat problems. It's also noisy as a dentists drill, so about 5 minuites is all you want to hear it at a time.

Another option not mentioned, for good reasons is the I zip, and E zip bikes. They are also gearmotors, and cheap to buy bike and all. Also noisy as hell, they do have amazing torque for hauling a load. Usually 24v bikes, they are slow, but again, maybe the right speed for hauling anyway. Most of us on this fourum want more power and speed, and hate the noise so we rarely think about the zip bikes.

 

[jerryt]

Another option not mentioned, for good reasons is the I zip, and E zip bikes. They are also gearmotors, and cheap to buy bike and all. Also noisy as hell, they do have amazing torque for hauling a load. Usually 24v bikes, they are slow, but again, maybe the right speed for hauling anyway. Most of us on this fourum want more power and speed, and hate the noise so we rarely think about the zip bikes.

Probably a great idea
edit: I'm not sure how it handles a trailer
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TAG/PAS ( Twist and Go or Pedal Assist )

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[dnmun]

what was the deal where Dman got an izip delivered for $300? anybody remember that? he fixed some of the little stuff and gave it to his dad as i remember.

 

[mthead]

Just dropping by to say, I bought a kit from Terry at Hightekbikes. Also picked up a new bike to put it on - a Schwinn Beach Point Cruiser. Eagerly awaiting the arrival of the motor. And Now I just have to figure out what battery will work best and fit my budget :wink:

 

[dogman dan]

You talked about 10 miles being the max distance, is that to the groceries and back or is that shorter? The cheapest thing is 3 sla's that will take you about 8 miles, and 10 might be possible if you ride slower. The next cheapest option is still pretty pricy. Sla's will still work if you are going to use a trailer, you'd just need to get 3 more 12 ah sla's to double your range. That is close to $300 for 24 ah of 36v sla's. For just a few bucks more, you could get an 8 ah nicad pack and a charger from ebikes ca that would get you about 10 miles of range, with a lot less weight and longer lifespan. I know, some will hoot at the suggestion of the nicads, but they work well, they beat sla's, and they cost a lot less than lifepo4 from ping. A 15 or 20 ah pingbattery is a perfect match for Terry's Aotema kit if you have that kind of money to spend.

But if money is tight, you might just try a set of sla's and ride it slow enough to get the 10 mile range. The bag that comes with the kit is perfect for 3, 12 ah sla's.

Edit. I forgot about another cheap way to extend range if you use sla's. Adding one more to have a 48v pack will get you at least 2 more miles of range, if you ride about 20 mph. So if you do want to use sla's think about 4 of em, before you commit to a 36v charger. Shipping sla's is pricey, so when I buy em, I just look localy in the toy sections of stores that sell the electric cars for kids.