AFT mid drive giant glory 2013

[cheekybloke]

hi folks,i have put 2200 miles on my aft kit and had a whole 3 cases of chain suck (due to dry chain) and replaced 2 chains and i am on my second cassette.overall it just keeps going.
darren

 

[jollydet]

awesome build

 

[dypsomaniart]

Hey Darren,
thanks for adding some real world reliability info! Jim at aft showed me your ebike commute vid and forum when i was looking into these kits and hassling him for specs hearing you accelerate through the gears like a motorcycle was one of the things that really made my mind up. They really are a brilliant setup, great to hear yours is still going strong.
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[John Bozi]

hi folks,i have put 2200 miles on my aft kit and had a whole 3 cases of chain suck (due to dry chain) and replaced 2 chains and i am on my second cassette.overall it just keeps going.
darren

what did the chain suck do to the ride? Did it make you skid?

Did you need to replace chains on a ride?

Any thoughts on the best cassettes? teeth ratios ..

cheers

 

[cheekybloke]

hi folks,i have put 2200 miles on my aft kit and had a whole 3 cases of chain suck (due to dry chain) and replaced 2 chains and i am on my second cassette.overall it just keeps going.
darren

what did the chain suck do to the ride? Did it make you skid?

Did you need to replace chains on a ride?

Any thoughts on the best cassettes? teeth ratios ..

cheers

hi john ,all the chain suck did was lock the pedals no breakages at all.
to fix it i improvised by sticking my finger in the gearbox oil res. and wiping the chain.as for cassette ratios the only thing i would do is not use the 11 tooth if it has one.it tends to eat chains and sprockets way quicker if you do.
darren

 

[dypsomaniart]

Hey Darren,
What spec cassettes and chains are you running?
I use the sram DH 970 hardened chrome steel cassette and pc991 sram chain (sram's strongest offroad chain, and heavy duty steel downhill cassette). I closely examined my gears after reading your post and they show zero sign of wearing at this point, but I've done nowhere near the miles you've done yet.
If you are using cheaper steel or more expensive light weight gears etc, that may be cutting the lifespan down? Is your cassette 10speed or 9speed? From all accounts the 9 or even 8 speed chains and cassettes are far more durable than a 10sp.
My rides are generally only 15-30km, replacing the chain every 6 months is acceptable as far as I am concerned. Still cheaper than running my dirtbike or fuel for the car!
Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[cheekybloke]

Hey Darren,
What spec cassettes and chains are you running?
I use the sram DH 970 hardened chrome steel cassette and pc991 sram chain (sram's strongest offroad chain, and heavy duty steel downhill cassette). I closely examined my gears after reading your post and they show zero sign of wearing at this point, but I've done nowhere near the miles you've done yet.
If you are using cheaper steel or more expensive light weight gears etc, that may be cutting the lifespan down? Is your cassette 10speed or 9speed? From all accounts the 9 or even 8 speed chains and cassettes are far more durable than a 10sp.
My rides are generally only 15-30km, replacing the chain every 6 months is acceptable as far as I am concerned. Still cheaper than running my dirtbike or fuel for the car!
Thanks for the info!
Cheers,
Jesse

hi jesse,
i use sram pc870 chains as i got a deal on them.i payed 3 gbp each so i bought 10.the cassette is a cheapo 8 speed shimano,i tried an xt cassette and it didnt really last any longer than the cheap ones.i do ride it very hard (as you should).my next plan is to copy e,s member RWP ,s drive train.it is a 3 speed cassette with heavy duty bmx chain running through a widened rear mech.have you changed your primary chain?did you know that half link bmx chain will go straight on?
darren

 

[dypsomaniart]

Hey Darren,
I havent started really giving it a hard time yet, still tentatively testing the limits. The ACS drive chain that came with it seems to be holding up ok, but thanks for the tip on the bmx chains! I'll keep an eye on main chain stretch from now on, i thought the 1x9 sram setup i had would be pretty tough but it sounds like you've got an even tougher one! Although my chain may be a little better than the 870. Will have to see how mine holds up in the long run before considering whether to upgrade, although a bulletproof 3-speed does sound tempting...
I've just ordered a gopro style camera, but now we're properly into autumn down here and the weather has just turned to crap, so i dont know how many rides i'll get in over the next few months (not a huge fan of riding in cold, wet and mud, hence why i dont live in england ).
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[drew12345]

Jesse, that's awesome you ordered a gopro. Can't wait.

 

[dypsomaniart]

Thanks Drew! Itll take a couple of weeks to ship over (ebay special), hopefully this place hasnt become a complete mudbath by then...
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[jdevo2004]

Hi Drew,
Heres the specs of the em3ev battery:
samsung 29e cells, 40a continuous BMS, 50.4v nominal voltage (58.8v full charge), 19.25ah, pre-charge connector plug (to prevent spark/arc on connection). The dimensions and weight are 138x276x75mm, 5.19kg.
Roughly the size of a couple of hardback novels, or for the younger generation, a little bigger than 4 DVD's.
Heres some pics of the backpack with it in. I wrapped the pack in approx 15mm thick foam padding to make it a snug fit in the backpack and protect it a bit- although em3ev shrink wrapped packs come with a foam layer and then a fibre board layer under the shrink wrap protecting the cells.

Not to be a downer but how the heck can that battery possibly be adequate for 1680 watt motor?
You have a battery that is 14S7P Samsung 29E cells.
Samsung 29E cells are rated 2.75 amps max continuous discharge.
That means you are maxing out your battery at 19.25 amps and 50.4 volts = 970 watts. Not only are you under powering the motor, you are also running these batteries at maximum discharge all the time and that can not be good for them.

On that note, I do love the build and the heat sink on the motor is awesome.

 

[dypsomaniart]

Hey Jdevo,
Not sure what the burst discharge specs are on this battery but Paul assured me it could handle 40a continuos no sweat.

*edit* see posts below with burst discharge specs, this battery is more than enough for the 1680w system*

Cheers,
Jesse

 

[drew12345]

That battery is awesome! I have been hearing a lot of great things about it! What you get for weight and size is incredible. I want to get one. And it's a perfect match for the mid drive. I'm sure it does way more than 20amps. There are some threads on that battery somewhere here.

 

[dypsomaniart]

Just found the official samsung specs on the 29e cells, they are more than enough.
JDevo, can you please re-calculate the power now based on 8.25a per cell max output, and post your findings for the other readers, thanks.
Nominal Capacity: 2,850mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
Typical Capacity: 2,850mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
Minimum Capacity: 2,750mAh (0.2C, 2.50V discharge)
Charging Voltage: 4.20 ± 0.05 V
Nominal Voltage: 3.65V (0.2C discharge)
Charging Method: CC-CV (constant voltage with limited current)
Charging Current: Standard charge: 1,375mA
Charging Time: Standard charge: 3hours
Max. Charge Current: 2750mA (not for cyclelife)
Max. Discharge Current: 2,750mAh (continuous discharge), 8250mAh (not for continuous discharge)
Discharge Cut-off Voltage: 2.50V
Cell Weight (max. (g): 48g
Cell Dimension: Diameter(max.) : 18.40 mm, Height(max) : 65.00 mm,
Operating Temperature: (Cell Surface Temperature) Charge: 0 to 45°C, Discharge: -20 to 60°C
Storage Temperature: 1 year : -20~25°C, 3 months : -20~45°C. 1 month : -20~60°C

 

[jdevo2004]

When dealing with 18650 batteries, the prevailing thought is to only use up to half of the maximum continuous discharge rate. For the 29E, that would be 1.375amps.
For instance, the Samsung 20R is rated for 20 amps continuous discharge and peak discontinous discharge of 35 amps. If you wanted a to draw 40 amps you would use 4 batteries in parallel so as not to stress them too much.
I have noticed that the EM3EV site lists the 29E as being safe to run at 6 amps continuous discharge so maybe they know something I do not. Still, seems fishy that they have a 14s5p 29E continuous discharge at 30 amps with is extremely generous and then they have the 14s5p 20R with 10 amps continuous discharge which is conservative.
Either way, if you are happy with the final product then who am I to judge.

 

[ridethelightning]

awesome bike!

i reckn its bikes like this the guys on rotor burn would either really love(if they swallowed pride and tried one) or get really amped up about on their trails

check it out here:

http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?278768-eBikes-what-s-the-current-perspective


all started from this es thread:

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16520&start=800

 

[dypsomaniart]

When dealing with 18650 batteries, the prevailing thought is to only use up to half of the maximum continuous discharge rate. For the 29E, that would be 1.375amps.
For instance, the Samsung 20R is rated for 20 amps continuous discharge and peak discontinous discharge of 35 amps. If you wanted a to draw 40 amps you would use 4 batteries in series so as not to stress them too much.
I have noticed that the EM3EV site lists the 29E as being safe to run at 6 amps continuous discharge so maybe they know something I do not. Still, seems fishy that they have a 14s5p 29E continuous discharge at 30 amps with is extremely generous and then they have the 14s5p 20R with 10 amps continuous discharge which is conservative.
Either way, if you are happy with the final product then who am I to judge.

Hey edevo, ive been playing with lipo batteries for years, so has samsung, if the say 2.75 continous, it is a safe, conservative rating. Anyone telling you you can only use half that is just plain wrong. Samsung know that random consumers are going to push them past their limits (just look around this forum!). If samsung say 8.25 max, and em3ev says 6 is safe, this is clearly well within the battery specs.
You suggest that "maybe they know something you dont?", i would say this is definitely the case.


Heres a link to em3ev showing a 10.25ah pack, with all the facts and figures.
My pack is good for 1c conservative which is 19.25amps, but can take 3c 57.75amp under load.
Maybe youre used to high drain hub motors, but the aft motor in mid drive setup doesnt pull high amps consistently like a hub motor.
http://em3ev.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=35&product_id=128

 

[John Bozi]

ld use 4 batteries in series so as not to stress them too much.

you mean
parallel?

 

[dypsomaniart]

awesome bike!

i reckn its bikes like this the guys on rotor burn would either really love(if they swallowed pride and tried one) or get really amped up about on their trails

=quote]
Thanks!
The red hill ride last week was with about 15 serious mtb guys, most of whom compete regularly. They were all dubious in the carpark to begin with, but i rode at the same pace as the fastest guys there, didnt go stupid or ride like a hooligan, and by the end of the ride they were all very impressed with its capabilities, a few were talking seriously about making their own for fun bikes, and they welcomed me to attend future rides with them.
I think their is a stigma with ebikes still at this stage, but its really down to how they are used and how responsible the rider is.
Certain types of people will find a way to abuse everything out there, a V8 car is no faster than a 4cyl until you put a hoon behind the wheel.
It wont be long before some idiot on a high powered ebike hits a car or walker at 80kmh and kills someone, ruining it for everybody as the government and police crack down on it. Or someone incorrectly wires up a pile of lipos and burns to death.
I know i'm starting to sound preachy, but there seems to be two groups of people out there; people like me who want an electric assisted bicycle to make rides easier and more fun, and people who want an electric motorcycle equivalent that they can ride faster than any bicycle was ever meant to go. Illegally. Those people will ruin it i believe.
People just need to use their brains.
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[wormsman]

I own a santa cruz heckler with bbso2 750w version and a kona stinky with gng mid with lr mod kit on primary chain I also am running the 50v samsung 16.4 ah battery ,but boy that glory looks nice I would love more wattage out of both my bikes the kona just eats chains and the bafang is just very bad with heat.These aft bikes are lookin good would love to see a video or two thinking I might copy this build

 

[dypsomaniart]

Hi wormsman,
Yeah the aft kit seems like a good unit. The ceramic bearings and oil filled gearbox, and the big ass heatsink seems to keep motor temps down and efficiency very high. I dont thrash mine too hard, but the 1680w kit is just idling along at 35kmh (which is my fastest comfortable pedal cadence) and from there it will pull hard up to about 50kmh and wind out at 60 if you're a speed freak. The torque is brilliant, i still havent found any hills that will stop it.
I should have a vidoe camera in a few weeks, i'll try to get some footage up.
In the meantime, user Drew12345 has some great videos on his aft bike, you can find one of his posts further back up this page, and if you search youtube for 'E-bike in mt dandy' theres a guy with a 1680 aft and 20ah battery riding some long hills.
I like tight rough challenging tracks so i'll get some vid of that stuff as soon as possible.
Glad ya liked the look of the glory, its a beast of a bike, i love it.
Cheers,
Jesse

 

[pendragon8000]

dypsomaniart amazing bike you got there. Must be so fun to ride. Videos?

 

[dypsomaniart]

Got the camera working today. I tried the chest mount but it ended up pointing at the ground too much when I was standing up over the rough stuff.
I took two quick vids just around the local bush tracks if anyones interested. Was taking it pretty easy as I still havent changed off the maxxis hookworms, and it has gotten pretty greasy and slippery out there now.
I'll mount the camera more solidly and head back up to red hill hopefully next week and get some decent footage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FD5YtuYk3ig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnwvBOb-cHQ

 

[drew12345]

Awesome! Looks like some great trails there. Must be a ton of fun when dry.

For the chest mount, you can mount upside down and change that setting in your gopro in case you don't know. It was still a good angle from helmet though. I haven't done that in awhile.

 

[dypsomaniart]

Thanks Drew, yeah theres a heap of other tracks and you can blast around in the dry. I should just put the muddy marys back on now autumn/winter is here, the hookworms are sweet dry weather tires, ive just been too lazy to change them.
theyre pretty good just cruising normally, but i wanted to go fast for the video, and they just wouldnt let me push any harder. Good fun sliding around though