An hardtail hybrid frame for electric DIYers - CONTRIBUTE!!!

[panurge]

I'm glad to use my 500th post to announce that ONION will offer soon an hardtail frame to build from a MTB to an Hybrid Bike, with some features the DIYers would probably like.
We have the "whole Bike" project still going ahead, But we would like to offer the Frame alone here on ES exclusively. A thread on the for sale section will be opened at the right time.....
This is otherwise a thread where all you guys, can suggest a feature or a mount or move critics to get that frame a good choice for a DIYer especially for unconventional middrives, but, in fact, for any kind of electric system except for the BBS style crankdrives that mounts and settle around the BottomBrackets.

ACTUAL FACTS

Bicycling side:

- Easton Alloy 7005 toptube
- 7005 Oversized DownTube, It has the bottom end free, being welded to a CNC shaped Alloy billet within the BB shell and the seat tube plates.
- two 8mm thick plates connect the BB shell to a second one in the 150 - 200mm center to center range, starting the seattube that extends from the 2nd BB till the seatstays-toptube junction with a standard Seattube round pipe.
- Geometries are actually inspired by the hybrid-bike top brand average, with a slightly longer wheelbase
- disc brakes mounts, rack mounts, and bottle, cable routing, are the standard bits.
- 1 1/8 headtube
- 135x9-10 rear dropouts.

Electric side:

- The Downtube has a free access to the inside from the lower end, and has space enough to fit 3 relaxed columns of 12x18650 cells each or 4 roughly insulated columns that means 36 to 48 cells
- the two plates the seattube start with, form a box-shaped space where a standard medium sized controller can fit nicely, or another 12 cells stack.
- the 2nd BB shell used to connect the plates within the round seatube portion, could be useful for the extreme modders as a Jackshaft or for other insane purposes, while normal people simply may cover them (want to carry a BB for spare? that's the right place ....)

YOUR CONTRIBUTION

we would like to get your opinion and suggestions mostly but not only about:

- rear dropout style (arguments should be torque arms, sliders/vertical, removable/fix, diameter and type of the axle....)
- Any additional mount should be considered
- lenght and style of the seattube plates and the resulting "box" space
- stand over heigh
- battery capacity
- 2nd BB use options

I really hope and trust this project will encounter your likes, guys, we already have stock materials for 30-40 of these frames and some alpha frames yet made and tested.
That's an Idea:


Price will be cool, probably better than anything similar...affordable for anyone that want to build up his own e-bike starting from a dedicated platform.

 

[SkyknightJohn]

Always good to see more dedicated frames being developed. Some of my thoughts:

- Geometries are actually inspired by the hybrid-bike top brand average, with a slightly longer wheelbase

A picture is worth a thousand words. While I have and idea what you are saying, I'm probably not alone in wanting to see the full bike (even prototype) to better understand the style and geometry.

- The Downtube has a free access to the inside from the lower end, and has space enough to fit 3 relaxed columns of 12x18650 cells each or 4 roughly insulated columns that means 36 to 48 cells

While having the batteries inside the frame makes a lot of sense (stealth, security, weight distrubution) it means people will have to build custom packs. (unless there is some I am unaware of) Sure, there are a lot of people who do that, especially here, so you may find some market there. I believe the idea has been attempted before. I suggest to make provision for the 'off-the-shelf' battery options that are most popular (em3ev, ebikes.ca, ping, allcell, etc...). I think most of the rectangular packs are roughly the same width, so it might be viable.

- the 2nd BB shell used to connect the plates within the round seatube portion, could be useful for the extreme modders as a Jackshaft or for other insane purposes,

Good to have the option of hub or mid-drive on a frame. Consider mounts behind the seat tube for a front hub to drive through the jackshaft & gears.

- lenght and style of the seattube plates and the resulting "box" space

I think most agree that more space is always better, up to practical and aesthetic limits. It's easier to fill space with foam than squeeze in a too big battery. Would be easier to visualize with a full bike pic.

Just my 2c. Good luck!

 

[panurge]

thanks for your contribution, SkyknightJohn.....
That frame with the box has been welded yesterday, there isn't a fully mounted bike....however we have tested the platform for a year or so without the box, the bike is exactly the same apart for the 2 plates and the 2nd BB shell.

The few frames made till now, tops out at 1.7to 1.9 Kg depending on size and seattube style....

We will offer locally, the whole bike with a 9 to 12s 3p Pack and an hubmotor, but we are actually slowed by some questions.....In fact offering a complete bike, i mean an e-bike, is not that simple right now for an EU based company, so I've decided to not let this project sleep anymore and try to offer the frame alone here, to see if it meet the expectation of the DIYers as a frameset dediacated to electrics.

In Fact we can offer, with the frame, all the "basic" bicycle components we have sourced for the commercial project (what you see on this bike) and that include an SLX derailleur, tektro mechs and FSA setapost, cranckset, headset, handlebar and stem......

I know that this is not the first atempt to whipe the battery pack inside a "conventional" diamond frame....however, the method we used to achieve that is pretty unique, and, mostly for aesthetic question, we do not like square shaped frames....

I can show pictures of our packs and how we make them by 18650 cells, but the frame buyer has to provide it by himself, I'm sure Cellman and the others wouldn't have any problem assembling a pack like that.....standard holders are useless here, that's the major problem, but the stack nature of the pack itself, and the way it's firmly inserted into the frame, provide enough safety from my perspective, especially for th DIYers, since each pole is paired or "against" poles to which it is already connected. honestly a 4p pack would fit tight, with only the space to shrink the whole thing, But I've made hundreds Km with that kind of pack without any problem, actually.

A mount for an hubmotor as middrive is a very good point for that kind of frame. It is one of the features we may integrate starting from the suggestions collected here....thanks.

Please continue with your advice and thoughts......

 

[tahustvedt]

Wouldn't it be good to have room for an off the shelf bottom bracket motor, like the BBS01? There doesn't seem to be enough room under the bottom bracket of that frame.

 

[panurge]

I know what you mean, but the way the downtube is welded to the shell unfortunately dont allows for a crankdrive, with some efforts we have made a frame that can mount a BBS but upside-down, inside the frame triangulation, but the frame looks not nice like that and is way more complicated to be jigged and welded.
A BBS or any crankdrive, can be mounted anyway easily on the 2nd BB.....