Another 36V Li-ion Battery : BOSCH !!

[Tom]

OK, got an answer back from the seller regarding why my batteries and chargers didn't come in any Bosch packaging. In fact, they pulled them out of the Drill combo set. I see they are selling the drill separately w/o batteries & charger. They had 10 available (same original quantity as the battery and charger auctions) so everything jives. I have no reason to doubt them as they have 20,000+ feedbacks w/ 99.6% positive. So if anyone is interested in my extras I'm now confident everything is brand new.

 

[etard]

Hey tom,
I would be willing to buy those batteries on ebay like you say, but have you guys confirmed the quality of these batteries, and what max amp they will safely put out? Also, how long does it take to charge each battery? Are these plug n play, or do you have to do some bms customization? Somebody pop one open! :lol: pm me if you still want to sell.

 

[bigbirdlover]

You were right, these ARE big. Nice set though, wish I'd bought two sets, then I'd have chargers on both ends, a I could have resold just the drill & case. I'm going to keep my eyes open for another combo pack as well, around Christmas the sales are HOT. I saw one for $179. buyitnow on ebay, but it was gone by the time I got home.

 

[Tom]

Here's a drill set w/ 2 fat pack batteries and charger for $188 plus $13 shipping:

http://cgi.ebay.com/BOSCH-18636-02-36V-BRUTE-TOUGH-1-2-HAMMER-DRILL-DRIVER_W0QQitemZ220288869122QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item220288869122

Cash back is 30% again, making this $145 shipped after cash back. Wow, that's insane! I paid more w/o the drill. If you can sell the drill for $45 that means 2 batteries and a charger for $100. There are 20 drill sets available, making it ideal for a multiple quantity purchase (to limit usage of cash back to 1 auction since you can only use it on 6 auctions lifetime). Hurry, only 9 hours left on that auction! If I could do it over again I would have bought 3 of these drill kits.

 

[64ragtop]

..... have you guys confirmed the quality of these batteries, and what max amp they will safely put out? Also, how long does it take to charge each battery? Are these plug n play, or do you have to do some bms customization? Somebody pop one open! :lol: ....

Doctorbass showed the innards at the beginning of the thread, and I posted charge times a few days ago.

Back when I used to smoke, if someone wanted to "borrow" a cig, I would usually "lend" 'em one.

If they needed a light as well, I would often ask if they needed a kick in the chest to get their lungs started, too.

I'm working on being a bit less sarcastic these days.

Sometimes I slip!

Oops!

ATB :wink:

BC

BC

 

[bigbirdlover]

Well, it's another fine mess I'm in, apparently when I cross wired the batt, the damage was not limited to the controller, even though they show 11.5-12 volts, the plastic casings are showing suspicious signs of swelling, and when I hooked up the new controller today, even though the battery indicator shows full, I got nuthin'! Rrrr! The wheel shudders slightly when you start to pedal, throttle or no, but nothing else. Looks like I'm going nowhere this season.

 

[64ragtop]

Tell me you're not riffin' off the old Laurel and Hardy line: "This is another fine mess you've gotten us into, Stanley...." :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think I quoted it right, anyway... I was VERY young when they ran L&H reruns on our local TV stations...

OK, now tell me you're still talkin' about your old SLA batteries. If so, it sounds like they're terminally sulfated and their internal resistance has gone up so they cannot supply much current even though they show near normal voltage. I read up on sulfation, and found that mild cases can be reversed to some degree, but my SLAs had bulgy cases and splitting seams. I recycled 'em! They were in the 36 volt scooter that I built the Bosch rig for.

Your description of the motor behavior sounds like a typical low current situation. The batteries have enough voltage that the controller's low voltage cutoff doesn't function, but they can't deliver the AMPS to run your motor.

If these are your Bosch packs, I dunno what the failure mode is, but but bulging cases would have me thinking they were toast!

ATB

BC

 

[bigbirdlover]

Guilty as charged! Big Laurel & Hardy fan when I was little. It's the sla pack. Something tells me I damaged it when I reversed the one battery. I only used them 5 times, but they were kept charged, guess I'll turn them in. I'll have to look up the link for testing just the motor before I go much further. I wonder if Tom figured out the bms thing on the bosch kit, I'll probably have to build that today, since I have no other battery. I'm wondering how long it takes to get the actual cash back, how it's delivered, and in what form? Sure would like to have another kit, holding off till I hear more.... These lithiums ARE heavy, but still smaller & lighter than what I'm using.

 

[Tom]

Takes 60 days to get the cash back. You get it via paypal. As far as BMS, not sure. I was worried the spring in the middle slot might need to be pushed in for the battery to work. Ran a test and it does not. Don't know what the middle slot is for. Doesn't seem to just be for charging as the drills have a male for the middle slot too. I wonder if it bypasses the BMS by just using the outer two slots.

BTW, the Dewalt packs are 2.4 pounds each, so while these are heavier at 2.7 pounds, they also have slightly more volts and ah capacity, at less than 1/2 the price.

 

[bigbirdlover]

I love the price! Plus you could easily beat someone to death with this drill, if the need arose...

 

[64ragtop]

And, if ya got TRULY desperate and/or bored, you could even use it to make holes in various materials
without needing to find a nearby electrical outlet! (What a concept, huh?)

ATB :lol:

BC

 

[Tom]

Suppose you could drill holes in the battery cases to make them a little lighter.

 

[Lock]

Interesting thread...
Just wish to remind ppl about Geebees post waaay back in August`07 titled "Drill powered bike anyone?":
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2008&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

...about the DPX minibike


From the DPX site:
http://www.dpxsystems.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ID=184
Weight 33 LBS. Speed 15MPH
"Description: Patented Drill Powered Mini Bike with 18 V Drill. Can be adapted to many battery drills."

Seems to me moving from 18v to 36v might be a significant upgrade for the DPX
:lol:

DPX even sells their parts for the DIY crowd:


tks
Lock

 

[Tom]

Found some pics of the insides of the packs here:

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?p=149188#post149188

 

[bigbirdlover]

They now have various sellers offering 2 packs of these for around $144. and up, $159. w/free shipping, a very good deal indeed. :wink:

 

[pwbset]

Yeah.. just yesterday a local tool shop offered me 1 for $175. I didn't have the heart to tell him I could get 2 for less than that on the internet. Just said thanks, but no thanks. I do hate not supporting a local business, but sometimes you just can't justify it no matter how hard you try. *sigh*

 

[Tom]

I would still go for the drill kits since you get 2 batteries, a charger, and a drill. Last time I looked you could get them for $200 shipped ($150 after 25% cash back) via buy it now on ebay. Also, if you can't sell the drill you could always harvest the battery connector from the drill.

 

[bigbirdlover]

I didn't get the option for the cash back when I bought mine, though I did use best offer. Maybe it's a regional thing.

 

[John in CR]

I recently got 10 Bosch 36V fatpacks in, along with 5 chargers, thanks to Tom. I opened one of the packs, and the batteries have just 2 wires connected to them. The only thing between the battery pack and the connector slots for + & - is a 60A fuse. In other words there is no BMS, so a straight connection to a bike should have no problems unlike some of the tool packs where a BMS can get in your way.

I plan to simply remove the pack covers other than just the plastic that holds the cells together and connect 5 packs in parallel. I don't need fast charging, and with 10+ah packs the temperature sensor portion of the electronics housed in the slot connector shouldn't be necessary, so I'll just mount that connector on a charger and charge 5 packs at once in parallel with a simple connector. My primary reasons for doing so is to reduce the overall dimensions of the resulting packs, and keep it as simple as possible. I might be able to reduce the size a bit further by removing the cells from their holders and arranging them differently, but I'm not sure it's worth the work or the risk of a short in the process.

The chargers are fairly large, but they have a rounded triangular shape. I'm trying to figure out a way to take advantage of the aerodynamic shape by incorporating a pair of the chargers in either a fairing or a tailbox structure to give me the ability to stop and charge 2 big packs anywhere with an outlet.

I'll take some pics once I get everything apart, which first requires a plan on exactly what I want to do.

If anyone sees any problem, especially with my plan to charge multiple packs in parallel, please let me know. My typical use is rarely, if ever, going past 50% DOD, and the charger seems pretty conservative with a cutoff at 40.6V .

John

 

[Tom]

Hey John, thanks for the input. I'm planning to keep mine intact to simplify charging logistics unless there is a big weight savings. Also, I've read the case design helps keep the cells cool since konion are sensitive to heat. Just wondering what kind of weight / bulk savings you're seeing by taking them out of the case? Are the cases heavy? Any pics would be great.

 

[pwbset]

The only thing between the battery pack and the connector slots for + & - is a 60A fuse.

Thanks for the post! Yes please on the pictures... post tons! I'm pretty shocked that a 2.2ah pack has a 60A fuse... that's like 27c before it blows. The highest I've discharged my 3ah konion pairs at so far is about 12c and they get pretty toasty at that. Clearly they are counting on that 60A to be a quick spike and the batteries themselves would stop working if it was more sustained. Right? Good info. Bosch packs should then be able to be ganged together in a variety of ways series/parallel without any dioded needed. 2s3p 72v6.6ah is a nice, speedy pack for <$500 ($1.05/wh - not too bad). Too bad they are so bulky/heavy... like most tool packs. :?

 

[John in CR]

Hey John, thanks for the input. I'm planning to keep mine intact to simplify charging logistics unless there is a big weight savings. Also, I've read the case design helps keep the cells cool since konion are sensitive to heat. Just wondering what kind of weight / bulk savings you're seeing by taking them out of the case? Are the cases heavy? Any pics would be great.

Tom,

The case isn't much weight. In fact, there really isn't a case, unlike the Dewalt packs. The cells fit snuggly into a red plastic holder. The black end caps screw directly onto the plastic holder. The other black strips are for logo, and maybe to cover some vent holes in the holder. In a stack of 5 packs I'll save maybe a pound or so, but it's the space I'm after. In a stack of 5, I should save close to 3" in one dimension and a 1/2" in the other 2 dimensions. For the 4-5kwh of packs I'll need for my coast-to-coast on a single charge I want to save space to the extent I can easily. Later I'll likely take some all the way apart and build some 300-500wh high voltage packs that fit snug and invisible inside a custom frame for a daily rider.

For the big trek aerodynamics will be more important than weight or volume, so right no I'm focusing on fairings, but I'd like to come up with something that resembles a bike with a 1/2 to 3/4 open fairing and tailbox. I have no interest in spending 7-10hrs inside a completely enclosed fiberglass shell in the tropical sun even if it means carrying an extra kwh of batteries up that first 2km high mountain.

John

 

[John in CR]

The only thing between the battery pack and the connector slots for + & - is a 60A fuse.

Thanks for the post! Yes please on the pictures... post tons! I'm pretty shocked that a 2.2ah pack has a 60A fuse... that's like 27c before it blows. The highest I've discharged my 3ah konion pairs at so far is about 12c and they get pretty toasty at that. Clearly they are counting on that 60A to be a quick spike and the batteries themselves would stop working if it was more sustained. Right? Good info. Bosch packs should then be able to be ganged together in a variety of ways series/parallel without any dioded needed. 2s3p 72v6.6ah is a nice, speedy pack for <$500 ($1.05/wh - not too bad). Too bad they are so bulky/heavy... like most tool packs. :?

I'll get some pics up quickly. I assume that thing is a fuse. It's a small clear plastic thing with 60A stamped on it, that the + side wire goes through. My use would seem to be the same as intended for the pack, which is to prevent a fire, explosion, killing packs, etc. in the event of a short, not as a current limiter in normal use. Think of a power tool like a drill or saw that gets stalled in a bind. I'm sure the current pikes high and quickly. If I remember correctly, the 24V Dewalt motor has a stall load of over 100A, so 60A doesn't seem high at all to me.

John

 

[yoyoman]

I read earlier about wiring these up in parallel and using a single charger. I don't want to leave a bunch of chargers at my desk, so I am wondering if this method has been tested successfully. After reading about the awesome prices for these, I'm even more tempted to try them!

 

[vkruger]

I charge 4p daily with 6.5Ah for my commute with a single Bosh charger (even though I still have 6 chargers from my 6 drill kits) and have about 50 cycles on it. It takes less than 2 hours and shuts itself off. I use a stripped off connector from 1 battery to easily connect the 4p pack to the charger. Soon I will be charging a 6p pack with a single charger and perhaps even a 12p pack.