Another Stiletto project

[dirtdad]

So Gonzo, if imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, then be flattered

I considered a lot of alternatives in making a "bigger" ebike than my basic kit conversion. I want to go big: x5 motor, 72v, lots o' amps and amp hours, lifepo4, big braking power, something verging on a motorcycle. I also want lots of low, centered batteries, a long wheelbase, disc brake ability and gears. I liked the idea of a lowrider, but few support disc brakes or gears. Other contenders were the Surly Big Dummy and Choppers US Beachcomber but those are all way backordered. But as is often the case, price decided it. I got the whole Stiletto for $229 USD. Wow. And this looks way cooler than anything else I was considering.

I am still collecting parts for the e-conversion. I put it together fast with no motor for a shakedown ride to make sure the bike part of the project worked well, and I cruised the beach. Of course. I have not installed the trim parts like fairing/gas tank, fender, or chainguard. I kind of like the look of the bike without them. I may add them later. The drivetrain is very interesting, see the pics and notes below.

The bike pedals surprisingly well, which is not saying much because I expected it to pedal really badly. But it was great fun. But by the time I add the weight of the e-conversion I may decide to lose the pedaling capability, or at least use a smaller sprocket in front. I suspect the only times I will want to pedal are: 1) From a dead stop 2) Up a big hill 3) Upon e-system failure. All of those scenarios will mean pedaling a tank around. I will worry about that later.

BTW, I think the ice cream bikes/pedal carts/trikes I saw aplenty at the beach would make great ebike conversions, one company is already making electric ones.

 

[AussieJester]

::subscribed:: Best of luck with the build mate. Would i be right in assuming they are 3inch wide 20's ? I wanted 4's on my custom chopper trike im building but if they are 3's i might reconsider they look the goods while not being 'over the top'

 

[GGoodrum]

Wow, now THAT I a nice ride. I'm not sure about an Etek, or a Mars, but certainly there's room. Something like the 1000W Cyclone motor might be a good fit, at least as an "interim" solution. In any case, the extra bottom bracket setup opens up lots of possibilities.

-- Gary

 

[Link]

LOL Gustavs on a rear wheel? :lol:

 

[dirtdad]

Would i be right in assuming they are 3inch wide 20's ? I wanted 4's on my custom chopper trike im building but if they are 3's i might reconsider they look the goods while not being 'over the top'

The front is 20 x 3 the rear is 24 x 3. I would leave the front alone, but there is no way to put any brakes in the front the way the bike is. The fork has disc mounts but not canti studs. And the wheel could take rim brakes but does not have disc rotor mounts. Go figure. I have decided to make it 24 x 3 front and rear. But I will have to go from 48 to 36 spokes and I love the look of the 48 spoke wheels, esp on a 20" wheel. Oh well, can't have everything.

 

[Miles]

Maybe something the size of a Powerpack motor would be more appropriate? Unless you're planning to ditch the derailleurs.....?

 

[AussieJester]

Something like the 1000W Cyclone motor might be a good fit

Agreed ... check 1000watt thread Homemade chain drive cruiser he used one in his excellent build. Alternatively the 1000watt brushed motor from TNC Scooters ia what i went for and imo would slot nicely into your chopper also Combine either one with some gears and your got a quick lil e-chopper ;-P

 

[Gonzo]

I would leave the front alone, but there is no way to put any brakes in the front the way the bike is. The fork has disc mounts but not canti studs. And the wheel could take rim brakes but does not have disc rotor mounts. Go figure. I have decided to make it 24 x 3 front and rear. But I will have to go from 48 to 36 spokes and I love the look of the 48 spoke wheels, esp on a 20" wheel. Oh well, can't have everything.

Hi Dirtdad. Glad to see your project is progressing full speed ahead. Like the look of that red Stiletto. You've already replaced all the parts that I'm still considering for replacement- the kickstand, pedals, rear disc. Me jealous much

Yeah, the front wheel design is weird, but I found a solution. Sturmey Archer drum brake! You do have to rebuild the wheel completely, since the drum has 36 holes. Also, it is a 9mm axle and the front drop-outs atr like 16mm. So, you have to use some washers, the stock 14mm to 16mm adapters and then 9mm to 14mm adapters to make it safe =) But it stops the bike just great! You cannot "burn rubber" with it, but deceleration while stopping is monstrous with both brakes applied. I've been testing it for a couple of days- will post the pictures soon.

The rear drop-outs work without torque arms for me- they fit 500W Golden Motor perfectly, with the stock torque washers (fat washers with large bent tabs)- their tabs fit in the split part of drop-out perfectly. But then again- you are going 1000W and probably do need the torque arms.

Anyways- best of luck and look forward at seeing your version of Giant Stiletto soon!

 

[ngocthach1130]

Have you looked at Schwinn Spoiler? They look wicked and dual disc front as well as disc rear. 4" wide 20" rear wheel and 24" front. A tad expensive at $350 compare to the Stiletto, but it does have a more custom look to it.

 

[stingray323]

I like picturing SOLAR Wheels bmx with conical reflective skin like MOON CAPS that recharge the hidden cells in that front tubing //OH and a Phoenix Racer front hub motor can hold 72 volts of push and clock in at near 50 mph's
but a road runner with some drag will be $89.00.. you would lace it up to your nicest rim and take it in to be trued!!
then hook the wires on to the bruhsless controls off a 72 watt capa bility controller, for a nice front wheel scat bike
I began riding in the OC some 30 years back on 40's schwinns so I like one speed bikes Now there are these DeVinchi style ball bearing planitary systems that offer unlimited gears like a gyro the scooter motor or v twin honda on propane could do stunts. yeah stunts

 

[dirtdad]

I have started the conversion. I am able to mount front disc brakes by using a different fork that looks almost identical, but has regular 9 mm QR style dropouts instead of 14/16 mm dropouts the bike came with, so I can make a wheel with a disc hub. I was thinking of going with a matching 24" front wheel seen in the pics for more of a stretch cruiser look. But the toe overlap is just too much, I will be going back to a 20" wheel and rebuilding the front wheel. I have temporarily strapped on a Yesa 36V 20AH battery on for now, I plan to put two in series in the final product.

For rear brakes I am thinking of threading holes directly in the 5304 motor cover and shimming the rotor as needed to line up with the caliper. Even the smallest spacer I can find is way too thick, shims and direct mounting seem like they would work fine. That is what I did with my BL36 front hub.

On the cassette side, I cannot get the smallest cog, the chain rubs the frame. I can tune that out with derailleur limit adjustment.

The motor came in a 26" rim, this bike is made for 24" and has room for a seriously wide rim. So I decided to go big with a 3" rim (85 mm) from Choppers US. It is double wall, but lacks eyelets. A good wheelbuild can be strong without eyelets. I have to get spokes cut for it but I had to see what the rear tire would look like mounted on that rim.

At this point I am seriously considering loosing the pedal drivetrain and making this a no-pedal vehicle - scooter, moped, motorcycle, call it what you want. The batteries would mount better, the drivetrain weighs a ton and is pretty complicated, I already have an e-bike, and I have lights and a dc-dc box. If it can scale the big hill on my daily route with no pedal assist, I think I will go that route.

 

[GGoodrum]

Wow, it is really taking shape.

I can't wait to come over and see this beast, when you get it running.

-- Gary

 

[dirtdad]

Status report: Its aliiive.

While waiting for spokes to relace the rear wheel to arrive, I thought there might be room for a small mtb tire on the existing 26" rim in the back. So I tried it and it all fit. Woot. So it looks like a 24" 3.0 tire will have almost the same diameter as a regular 26" tire. I installed a pair of 36V 20AH cells in series, hanging in slings from the top tube as a temporary measure. It works pretty well. The batteries are great for handling with a low center of gravity and centered position.

It is quite relaxed at its cruising speed of 30-40 mph. Long wheelbase choppers are great for handling the speed. There is a lot of trail in the steering geometry of course, so it helps to lean into curves rather that steer sharply. It is actually a lot of fun to lean a low bike like that. Going back to a 20" front tire will reduce trail.

Being lower probably gives some aerodynamic advantage, but sitting up like a billboard probably offsets that. I got a full face helmet, sort of Moped style or open face with a full face flip up visor. I would not ride those speeds without the face protection. I know a lot of motorcyclists do, but I have taken a few bugs and rocks in the face at lower speeds, it is pretty dangerous if you ask me.

Right now it is limited to about 23 amps, so acceleration is not tremendous. And it is not up to the task of climbing the big hill on my route without pedaling. And speaking of not pedaling, I am like 51% certain of losing the pedal drivetrain at this point.

My test run today was 30 miles, using up 16AH. And I was at full throttle as much as possible. If I behave myself and dont go for terminal velocity all the time, I am hoping to get a 50 mile range.

 

[TylerDurden]

19Whr/mi @ 30+mph is not too shabby. The style may cost some efficiency, but .... it's a choppa, baby.

 

[dirtdad]

Here it is, running but needing a lot of work to be really finished.

It may be a glamor bike, but it has to work to pay its way, so the trailer hitch got installed and its toting inventory, groceries, etc.

My plan is to install a small rear rack and leather saddle bags at some point.

 

[TylerDurden]

I'm right with you... I don't buy toys, I buy tools. But... there's nothing wrong with buying nice tools.

 

[dirtdad]

Just a little update here. I have been frying a lot of parts lately, hall sensors, controllers, etc. But it is back together and running again, the ride report is in here too.

While I was assembling stuff I must have shorted something somewhere. I cant figure out where, but it is my own fault because I did not have a main fuse installed yet. And that was with a full pack installed, so my poor ecrazyman controller apparently ate a spike of many many many amps. The results are downright shameful:


So I got a fuse holder and small fuses. As for the big fuse, I am not sure. The BMS has a cutoff of "60-80" amps. An 80-100 amp fuse seems awful darned big but they have them at Crutchfield, and the Radio Shack holder has 10 gauge wire.

I replaced the Hall sensors in the 5304 motor with less than 100 miles on it. It was not a case of a spinning motor pulling internal motor wires. What causes those things to blow? Heat? Cheap OE parts? They blew before the short that took out the controller, BTW. Perhaps the digi-key sensors are an upgrade from stock. Installing new hall sensors in a 5304 took a couple of passes for me. The wires must be routed under the coils just like they come from the factory or they rub the housing in use. So I stripped a 6 conductor phone wire - 10baseT wire would work - which gave me lots of thin gauge color coded wire for cheap, esp since I had the stuff already. That and heat shrink and epoxy and I was good to go. My soldering skills are pretty rusty, I prefer crimping, but that was not an option here, so the job took quite a while for me.

But once it got running it was wonderful. The Yesa batteries are quite impressive. While the eCrazyman controller was dead, I wired a Wilderness Energy (WE) controller to use for a day or so. Thanks to Knuckles and Fetcher for the handy guide about how to do that. I am pretty sure I can get any BLDC controller wired correctly now. The WE controller is rated for 36V 40A. But the Cycle Analyst told otherwise. It is a 20A controller. Admittedly underpowered for a 5304, it did get me over 20 mph, acceleration and hill climbing were passable, and it stayed cool all day. It may go in my bike bag as a spare. But with that combo I got a HUGE range out of my pair of 36V 20AH batteries. I used them individually rather than in series. I drained one then plugged in the other. The batteries are good for 40A and with the controller being 20A it was not worth it to make the parallel harness. I got 40 miles per battery like this. That gives my baby an 80 mile range. And my Stilleto has lost its pedal drivetrain, so this is with pedal starts all day. So lets see if I am doing this right. 36X20=720 watt hours, divide by 40 miles, that is 18 watt hours per mile.

The ride itself was awesome. I live in San Clemente, for those familiar with the area. My goal was to see if I could make it to Laguna Beach and back. I would go out until one pack drained, plug in the other then turn around. The prevailing wind is in favor on the return route and the net elevation is the same each way so that seemed safe. When I got to Laguna, my Cycle Analyst was telling me I had plenty of battery left, so I kept going, thinking Corona Del Mar would make a great turn around. I still had plenty of battery, so I was on to Newport Beach. This continued to Huntington Beach, where I got on the Beach Trail, which meant very slow speeds so lots of heat checks. Everything ran cool. It was the National Surf Championship, the busiest day down there I think. The bike drew a lot of attention, just as planned :wink:, but really most people had no idea it was electric. I made it all the way to Sunset Beach and only used 18 AH. So I turned around. I probably could have cruised Seal Beach, too, but this was taking hours! I returned to Main St. in Huntington Beach and cruised the strip, which was so extremely cool I cannot convey its coolness. The first pack finally cut out on Main Street. Next time I may bring a battery charger in a bike bag. When these BMSs cut out the battery, it is not like the controller. The BMS shuts off - 0 volts - and stays that way until it sees some charge current. During the ride I was seen by lots of cops BTW, no problems. It was great, it may be a regular evaluation route for me.

 

[Knuckles]

I like the "debris field" ...

 

[dirtdad]

I can take more if you like, to get a picture of the surface of the blown FET.

 

[GGoodrum]

I am absolutely blown away that you are getting that kind of range. That's easily twice the distance between your house and mine. I'll be over this week, to take a look. What also is amasing is that 36V and even 40A, will get you up that big hill to your house.

-- Gary

 

[RevDon]

There's a Stiletto on Ebay, pick up only in NJ, 3 days left, $10 low bid.

 

[dirtdad]

Just a little update on the Stiletto project



I got rid of the pedal drivetrain, opting to make this more of an escooter than an ebike. Or an emotorcycle wanabe. 8) Hey, that makes it legal on bikeways in California. You may notice the trick I used with the crank. I installed 2 non drive crank arms and pedals and made the arms run in the same direction. It makes sort of a floating deck for my feet. In use it is very comfortable and it does not sway around like I was afraid it would. Rather than pounding footpegs on bumps my feet swing a little, I don't even notice it. And it adjusts automatically to riders of varying sizes.

You may also notice the pad on the seat. That is because it does not have any padding inside the seat. None. I dont notice it unless I go for longer rides, but I have been doing that every weekend lately. All I can say is ouch. I have a friend in the upholstery business and I am actually going to get it reupholstered. I got some real leather on order.




I have been waiting a long time to build this rear wheel, and I am very happy with the results. Not only does it look cool, but is is not as heavy as you would think, the rims are actually very light and strong. The big rear wheel makes the ride mucho more comfortable. And the big tire is also thick and naturally puncture resistant.

Next will be tidying up the rats nest/battery compartment.

 

[Deafscooter]

Hi all Friend,

Dirtdad's E bike is Very good whole range 30 miles ride on Deaf Bike Day

Here is Picture of Red Stiletto Bike ( Behind Deafscooter's limoScooter )




Also More Picture, Check on => http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=5817