Any Info on Promovec (SCO) eBike?

[spooknik]

Hello!

I have an SCO eBike (Danish brand) most of the parts appear to come from Promovec. Just wondering if anyone has had experience with parts or with programming the controller? I like to tinker with things and eventually the goal would be to tweak some of the parameters of how the bike handles. Or perhaps switch the display out, as I'm not really happy with how it looks.

Motor is a Shengyi CMT03

The controller is a Promovec but I cannot find it listed on their website. I tried to open the controller, but the whole enclosure is filled with rubber and impossible to see anything. There does not appear to be a programming port or access to pins

The display seems custom design for this line of eBikes called Cycleplay, it uses an STM32 and CC2640 for Bluetooth. Firmware updates are flashed via Bluetooth in the app. Easy access to the STM32 pins for debugging via STLink.

Maybe it would be easier to just switch out the controller and display with something else more 'standard' but it seems like a waste of components.

Update: I believe the picture of the box I found is not the controller exactly, maybe a BMS(?) given the label. The motor might be using a Lishui LD-LS11-F, but I cannot be sure without taking apart the motor.

Update 2: First assumption was correct, the small box in the pictures below appear to be controller. I pulled the motor out and there are no other PCBs or control boards in the motor. It's a Shengyi box but there is zero info about it on their website.

 

[amberwolf]

I haven't seen this one before, but there are a few different open-source firmware (OSF OSFW) threads for various displays and controllers that might help you learn enough about the system to write your own firmware for the display, controller, etc., to do what you want to do. I'm not sure if it is possible to just change parts of the existing firmware (not sure you can read it back out to then reverse engineer it).


Regarding changing to a different display on the existing controller: Displays are not generally intercompatible with controllers they didn't come with; they often have the same connections but use different commands or data over the serial lines to talk to the controller, so different ones don't understand each other. Sometimes they may work in some ways but not others. It can be possible to even mess stuff up if a display uses a menu system / option that uses a certain parameter / data set to write to it's usual controller for one parameter, but the controller you try to use it with uses that parameter / data set for something else entirely, or responds to the possible value ranges differently.

Since this might be a custom-designed display for the controller, the controller may even have custom firmware in it that will only talk to this specific display, making it even harder to replace.

FWIW, a BMS would usually be inside the battery, with wires to each cell group to monitor them, and heavier wires for the main plus and minus output wires.

A controller will have (probably) at least three thick wires to the motor, and unless it is sensorless will typically have at least five thin wires to the motor for the hall sensors (some use different kinds of encoders with less wires, but they're rare). Some have extra wires for speed sensors or temperature monitoring.

The completely-potted (filled) box could be the controller; it's not that uncommon to do this for weatherproofing. SOme of them you can dissolve the potting without damaging the components, some you have to use dental picks / etc to carefully pull out the potting if you need access to the components or board inside, but there is always a risk of damaging things by accident since you can't see exactly what you're doing inside the potting.

 

[spooknik]

Thanks a lot for your reply amberwolf!

If i'm feeling brave this weekend I might 'depot' that control board, it's pretty soft rubber and just chips away. And yes you're right the BMS is in the battery itself

I found the technical install manual for the motor and it looks like the whole motor and controller is a Shengyi unit. They give zero information about programming or the firmware on this model. Google also doesn't really give me good results.

There is a cable with 7 pins is for the hall(?) sensor on the inside of the motor (see pictures) there is a cable with 9 male pins that goes to the motor (3 of the pins are larger gauge). The last connector in the picture is for the battery.

Unless this controller is something known by the community, I'm thinking it's a dead end. I can try to email Shengyi to get more information, but I think that's a dead end as well.

Assuming I wanted to go further with this, would it be possible adding a new controller/display say one that works with OSFW? The wiring for the motor and hall sensor is somewhat unknown from my side, but not impossible to figure out.

 

[amberwolf]

I found the technical install manual for the motor and it looks like the whole motor and controller is a Shengyi unit. They give zero information about programming or the firmware on this model. Google also doesn't really give me good results.

You almost certainly won't get any info from manufacturers about altering their systems--if you were another manufacturer wanting to customize a hundred thousand of them for sale, they'd probably work with you to build you those hundred thousand to your specs, but otherwise it's likely they'll just ignore you completely.

If you wanted to reverse engineer it based on other OSFW projects you probably could, if that's in your skill set, but I'd guess it'd be a long hard effort.

There is a cable with 7 pins is for the hall(?) sensor on the inside of the motor (see pictures) there is a cable with 9 male pins that goes to the motor (3 of the pins are larger gauge). The last connector in the picture is for the battery.

9 pin connector sounds like the typical type that has 3 phases, 5 halls, and a speed or temperature sensor (or both, sometimes multiplexed on one pin).

The 7 pin sounds like a connector to the motor unit's sensors (like PAS sensor, etc).

Assuming I wanted to go further with this, would it be possible adding a new controller/display say one that works with OSFW? The wiring for the motor and hall sensor is somewhat unknown from my side, but not impossible to figure out.

Since they made it so nice and modular, it should be pretty easy to change the entire control system out for a new one, though it probably won't mount where the old one did.

Do you know which control input sensors the system has? Most use a simple cadence PAS sensor that just outputs pulses (in one of a few possible ways) to determine if there is pedalling movement (whcih *can* usually also determine speed and direction but those are often ignored by the control system. So if the system you want to use will let you use the extra information (like the Cycle Analyst can) it can make the bike more rider-friendly. If it also has a throttle, and ebrake inputs, many systems also accept those.

Some of the OSFWs have different feature sets, so pick the one you want to use based on what you need the system to do for you and whether it matches the stuff you want to keep on the bike. Or on your ability to alter the OSFW itself to do that.


(the cycle analyst from Grin Tech isn't a controller or a display for a controller, but is a computer that goes between your control inputs/sensors and the controller, to generate a throttle signal based on all the inputs and your settings; it lets me use the pedals with a simple cadence PAS sensor to control the speed of the SB Cruiser trike, for instance. It works on "any" controller that does not require anything more than a simple throttle signal to operate and control motor speed (or torque) variably--if the controller requires PAS to work or does not have variable motor control then the CA can't do this)

 

[spooknik]

Since they made it so nice and modular, it should be pretty easy to change the entire control system out for a new one, though it probably won't mount where the old one did.

That's true, no way a new controller will fit where the current one does. My eBike has a downtube battery and at the base it has a small compartment that's empty. I've seen controllers that are designed to fit in there. Kunteng makes one for example. There appears to be community firmware for Kunteng controllers as well. I have no idea if that's a good controller or not... need to research some more :wink:

Do you know which control input sensors the system has? Most use a simple cadence PAS sensor that just outputs pulses (in one of a few possible ways) to determine if there is pedalling movement (whcih *can* usually also determine speed and direction but those are often ignored by the control system. So if the system you want to use will let you use the extra information (like the Cycle Analyst can) it can make the bike more rider-friendly. If it also has a throttle, and ebrake inputs, many systems also accept those.

According to the spec sheet on the motor it has a torque sensor, I also didn't spot a PAS sensor where it would normally be. A lot of the controllers I see have a cable for a PAS sensor, i have no idea if they can support a torque sensor, I have to investigate that a little bit :?

(the cycle analyst from Grin Tech isn't a controller or a display for a controller, but is a computer that goes between your control inputs/sensors and the controller, to generate a throttle signal based on all the inputs and your settings; it lets me use the pedals with a simple cadence PAS sensor to control the speed of the SB Cruiser trike, for instance. It works on "any" controller that does not require anything more than a simple throttle signal to operate and control motor speed (or torque) variably--if the controller requires PAS to work or does not have variable motor control then the CA can't do this)

Cycle Analyst seems really neat, I might have to look into that a bit more. Seems like a drop in solution for the hardware I already have which saves the trouble of getting a new controller.

 

[amberwolf]

Sort of...it doesn't replace your display, so you still have to use that to change settings in the controller or assist levels, and if the original controller only works when pedalling (doesn't have a throttle only mode), the CA can't control it properly. To do waht it does, the way most poeple want it to work predictably, the CA has to be able to just send a throttle signal to the controller and have the ocntroller obey only that signal; all user-input / sensor control signals go to the CA's inputs instead.

FWIW, the Baserunner controller (also by Grin Tech) is designed to fit in the mounting bracket of some batteries, so it's small enough to fit inside some battery cases, too. Maybe even the Frankenrunner.


The torque sensor in the unit probably also has the cadence sensor built into it; it's probalby inside the casing around the pedals with the motor, gearing, etc.


I'm pretty sure the OSFW for KT controllers supports torque sensors; there's a big thread that covers some versions of it, other threads for other versions and displays and such. I'm not deeply familiar with any of the OSFWs, not having used them yet, but I skim thru them periodically.

 

[spooknik]

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge, Baserunner seems to be a great solution. And Grin a solid company, I think I will end up getting one of those.

I just need to figure out the pins on my motor and controller. I probably will make another post with lots of question