Any way to do 100 miles or more with an ebike?

[dogman dan]

Love the diversity of ES. 8) I just got called a hooligan for riding 15 mph.

Again, if the hills were easy, and I was able to ride 8 mph for 12 hours, I have to wonder what the motor and battery weight were for. But though too slow for me, I can dig it that some would like to ride that speed the whole way. I definitely don't see much anymore faster than 20 mph. So pedaling for 50 miles with about 75 w of power, then having 200w for the big hill could work ideal for some. The whole point of a long tour is the scenery IMO.

But I like it better, to ride my crazy heavy cargo bike, be able to carry about 2000wh easy, and do the same ride in half the time at 15 mph. I still have not done a 100 mile day, but I have done 60-80 miles at 15 mph quite a few times. By 60 miles, or about 5 hours of saddle time including various stops, I definitely am ready to rest. If there is a chance to charge, then two sessions of 3 hours would be tolerable, with a good seat, correct underwear, etc. A charge could allow much faster travel, easily getting in 100 miles in 6 hours not including the charge stop. 17 mph average, likely 20 mph travel.

 

[Matt Gruber]

my seat is good for all day with a foam pad added.
can you guys sit in a camp chair or a hunting stool for a long time? That is a triangle hunting stool seat, and with a quality foam pad, it compares with my lazy-boy.

 

[Spacey]

But...but....but...the ebike in the bike shop says that it can go 40 miles on a 24v 10ah battery...have I been lied to :wink:

20Ah A123 43v (charged) pack gets you 50 miles on a good day without pedalling on a 250w set up at 15mph.

 

[Paul_G]

Optibike has a 100 mile option.

Optibike does not have a 100 mile option, I had a 850R with external pack and with the both you were good for maybe 60-70 miles....tested many times.

I have a Stealth Bomber with a 2nd battery and running slow with road bikes (15-20 MPH) I can go 144 miles...and thats tested.

Thats 3000 WH's with 2 batterys and 56 lbs

 

[grindz145]

I can easily do 100 miles with my "Touring" ebike, if I keep it under 25. About a 2kwh battery pack.

 

[wineboyrider]

Dogman remember that White Sands charging station we spotted at the public restroom....LOl
One of these days I am going to ride my ebike and visit you over that hell of a mountain. Should be fun coming down the other side of the Pass!
8)

 

[evolutiongts]

Just did 35 miles on the bike trails on my 48v ebike with a 15AH li-ion bat, keeping speeds below 20mph and pedaling and the occasional burst up to 30mph. I still had a bit more than half battery capacity. So its definately doable.

 

[dogman dan]

Yeah 35 miles, that's a range I have gotten from 48v 15 ah many many times.

I think it's pretty close to 80 miles, my house to yours Wineboy.

The pass is a fun ride. A few weeks ago, I rode over it, up to Agiurre Springs which is another 1500' climb, then back over the pass to my house. Only 30 miles, but 15 miles of uphill grade on the route. And 15 miles of fun Descending. 8)

With my purchase of 5 ah more of 14s this spring, I now have the range to make Alamogordo, if they won't let me charge at the National Park plug. Maybe I'll ride over to your house sometime. I'm eyeballing trying to ride the circle through Carrizozo to the Owl Bar, then back home through T or C.

 

[LockH]

Ummm... I have three scrap pieces of Sunbrella (TM) from a local sailmaker, to sew into a cover for my electramaterrific trike (front wheel hub motor, plus 48V 10Ah approx. batt under back backet). Cover to double as a small sail, to catch some tail winds, and maybe forward of the beam too. But I looove "cheating". Hope you do too?

 

[Ghost (bike)rider]

If speed and 100 mile range are absolute requirements, I think a hybrid bike (700c wheels) and 4 x 48V 20Ah Li-ion in parallel is the best option. These batteries weigh 5.5kg each so they can all certainly be carried in panniers. I would also use a BMC V4C motor, which is quite efficient and no drag when throttle is released.

All the BMSs can be connected together to recharge simultaneously (done it with 2), but a 10A charger will be needed.

 

[Hillhater]

Guys, if 2000Whrs is what you think it will take, consider that is only < 9 kg of 18650 cells. Not a huge weight !
So, a 13s, 14p pack of 3.0 Ahr would do it ?

 

[LockH]

Ummm... I understand we are busy ignoring the obvious here, but are you allowing for some daze (with strong head winds, etc)

 

[meelis11]

Dont be such pussies, 100miles should be doable with normal bike even without e-assist. I have done 250km (156miles) in one day (only leg power). Our university has done this trip several times - once a year there is sports event in Kääriku, which is 250km from Tallinn. Group of stunents are riding there by bikes, carrying flag. I have done this trip 3 times with MTB bike, not road bike.

You just need to ride a bit before your trip. At least 5 times riding 40-60km a day I suggest. More is better if you want to enjoy your trip.
Train without e-power, then take your ebike to this trip and use only when really needed.

 

[Cephalotus]

Depends on your speed.

I can drive 160km (100miles) without using a motor, have done that before. That's less than 20km/h average speed (but including luggeage like tent, spleeping bag, etc...)

At 30km/h top motor speed I need around 5Wh/km. For a 160m trip this translates to a 800Wh battery. Nothing spectacular.

At 40km/h motor top speed I need around 10-15Wh/km, this translates to a 1600Wh-2400Wh battery, this is big and heavy for a bike, especially if you want to carry soma additional luggage. But you can split your trip in two and make a break in between. If you have a 1000W charger and a 1000Wh battery it should be doable with a 1 hour brak in between.

At enless sphere most people talk about 50km/h, 60km/h and faster electric "bikes" and I have noe experince at that speed. I assume that you need an electric motorcycle instaed if you want to drive longer distances at that speed...

Moral of the story: Drive slow and drive an efficent bike and you can drive (very) long distances. I suggest that the daily maximum would be around 300km with a slim and efficient 30km/h motor assisted bicycle and some additional luggage, if you use a 1000Wh battery and charge in the middle of the day. After 10 hours in the saddle the remaining battery capacity is not your biggest problem...

 

[Cephalotus]

I'm hoping in 5 years, we can increase energy density 20-30%, which will make doing 100 mile days tenable with a break...

A Panasonic NCR18650B cell offers 3,6V and 3,4Ah at 46g. That's 266Wh/kg. Make it 200Wh/kg for a more realistic practical approach. So a 1000Wh battery will only weight 5kg today and give you 5 hours at 200W average assistance. That's plenty, more than most cyclists beside the professionals are able to pedal for 5h. If sitting 5h/day in the saddle is not enough for you just take a quick charger with 500W of power (the NCR cells don't like to be charged faster than 1/2C if tightly packed)

This technology is available today. Nothing spectacular about it.

They key is your own pedal power and a efficient bicycle. 200W extra (battery) power is very significant on an efficient bicycle, but seems underpowered in an inefficient one. Ride the (e)bike without any assistance for a significant distance and you learn quickly if is efficient or not.

Most projects focus on maximum speed and acceleration, not efficiency. Many people seem not be able/ willing to pedal.

Of course there is also a 2nd solution to the answer and that is to carry a battery huge enough to run a "motorcycle" for 1000 miles. Efficiency and especially human power are not so relevant in that case. (and your speed will also be higher...)

 

[cal3thousand]

I would think that the easiest way to gain that many miles would be a battery trailer. Going 100 miles, you'd probably want some form of trailer to at least hold your supplies. Fitted with a bunch of extra ah seems logical.

Though it does seem like a lot of investment in batteries for a one time trip. Would be awesome if you could find lenders to 'sponsor' you with loaner batteries for the duration of your ride.

I'd agree with this, but the requirements for battery go up about 25-50% with a trailer attached. My wife has to expend 35 wh/mi with a trailer attached. But that bike without trailer easily does 20 wh/mi at good speeds. The reason for a full 15wh/mi additional is the stop and go aspect of the neighborhood.

The Zuma is a solid bike... too bad it's not a Metro. The front basket on those things could hold some decent battery when you decide to hit a longer trip. You would just have to find a way to parallel that into your current setup for the days you take long trips.

 

[LockH]

a way to parallel that into your current setup for the days you take long trips.

Or a chain of fast charge dancing places plus grass and bed to "crash in" (Sorry `bout that. Bad word here to say aboard the spherical planet, I know.)

 

[Sunder]

A Panasonic NCR18650B cell has 3,6V and 3,4Ah at 46g. That's 266Wh/kg. Make it 200Wh/kg for a more realistic practical approach. So a 1000Wh battery will only weight 5kg today and give you 5 hours at 200W average assistence. That's plenty, more than most cyclists beside the professionals are able to pedal for 5h. If sitting 5h/day in the saddle is not enough for you just take a quick charger with 500W of power (the NCR cells don't kike to be charged faster than 1/2C if tightly packed)

This technology is available today. Nothing spectacular about it.

Don't want to be too harsh here, but 200w at the battery will probably be what, 150w at the wheels? That will get an unladen road bike to about 12mph. Let's be generous and call it 15mph. That's still six hours in the saddle, and the last hour you're pedaling solo...

Of course if you were average fit, you could put another 200w. Though unless you were very fit, you couldn't do it for 5 hours straight, but 350w will get you to 20mph. So yes, a fit guy with very high endurance might just be able to make it. On an unladen road bike.

Make it a hybrid for comfort, two large pannier bags and a backpack (since we're touring long distances) and we're back to being well short.

I agree the technology is there today in a lab environment. Or maybe someone doing it with a support vehicle. But for what I had in mind, we're not there yet. I'm sure we will be soon though.

 

[Hillhater]

Don't want to be too harsh here, but 200w at the battery will probably be what, 150w at the wheels? That will get an unladen road bike to about 12mph. Let's be generous and call it 15mph. That's still six hours in the saddle, and the last hour you're pedaling solo....

SO ..just make that a 10kg pack with 2kWhr.. and you are home and dry !
You get your 20mph/350W for 5 hrs with some to spare to help the extra 5kg up the hills ! .( or ease that DOD level)
A 10 kg pack is nothing on a bike..some riders carry 50kg surplus fat around !

..but of course , if you want to carry all your home comforts along with you, that is not what a bike is about and maybe you should consider a different mode of transport .

 

[Cephalotus]

Don't want to be too harsh here, but 200w at the battery will probably be what, 150w at the wheels? That will get an unladen road bike to about 12mph. Let's be generous and call it 15mph. That's still six hours in the saddle, and the last hour you're pedaling solo...

I have several e-bikes and one for example weights around 14-15kg (incl. Cute 85 motor, controller, lights, fenders, rack...) without the battery.

In my everyday rides I ride it at 30km/h on flat terrain and need around 4-5A from the 36V battery at 30km/h+.

so call it 6A at 36V on long distances, where I'm not able to contribute as much and if there are some hills.

36V * 6A * 161km / 30km/h = 1159 Wh

It would take 161km / 30km/h = around 5 1/2 hours in the saddle.

This is the "slow+efficient" approach. Without the motor I would need 8-10h in the saddle for those 161km. I have done that before. On a hybrid bike with 20+ kg of luggage in hilly Bavaria.
And I'm not super fit, there "real cyclists" are able to right 300-500km straight without any electric motor.

Of course if you were average fit, you could put another 200w. Though unless you were very fit, you couldn't do it for 5 hours straight, but 350w will get you to 20mph.

Yes, this is in line with my experience.

Make it a hybrid for comfort, two large pannier bags and a backpack (since we're touring long distances) and we're back to being well short.

No, that's what I ride at those numbers above. Of course there are differences in speed if you use a different riding position (tri bars), if you use more aerodynamic and smaller paniers (I do not like backpacks for long bicycle rides) and if you use tires with low rolling resistance and even your clothes cotribute to air resistance. You have not to dress or drive like s sports biker, just don't do "stupid" things that you wouldn't do either if you had nor motor inside your bike.

I agree the technology is there today in a lab environment. Or maybe someone doing it with a support vehicle. But for what I had in mind, we're not there yet. I'm sure we will be soon though.

The Panasonic NCR18650B cell is available for some years. It's just an example. You can user other cells. It's a high density low power cell but for a long distance ride you do not need a battery with a high C rate 8except for fast charging during brakes, if that#s your plan).

As I wrote the slow+efficient e-bike is just one solution. It is an easy, cheap and lightweight approach for those that like to travel with an e-bike and for those that are able and willing to pedal.

For those that want to do 100 miles with an electric motor quickly there are other options in the name of electric motorcycles and electric cars.

There are also concepts for things in between, like the Twike, that will also easily do 160km and reaches up to 85km/h with a 2900W (9000W peak) electric motor.

And it has pedals, too.

You can buy it with LiMn cells since 6-7 years. Not cheap, but available and sold several hundred times.

http://www.daniel-jung.ch/Images/Twike14.jpg

http://www.daniel-jung.ch/Images/twike-innen.jpg

 

[Kingfish]

There's already a topic for this called: The 101 Club.

There's also a thread called the 100 Club (started after the 101 Club) by GreenMachine.

My other > 100 mi. published rides:
2010 Cross-Country: Klamath Falls to Sacramento
2011 Cross-Country: Washington to California and Back

Last summer I went about 90 miles on 50Ah @ 63V from Redmond to Granite Falls and back at about 28 mph as I recall on the 2WD. It wasn't 100 miles, but then I climbed a lot of hills that day + it's the 2WD which is a stretch to make the hill-climbing beast efficient. Ah, found the thread:

Dear Diary: Travel Log of an Ebiker
Made me laugh reading it again :lol:

If you want to get distance + speed I suggest looking at adding some body faring to cut wind resistance; that always helped my top-end for speed, or easily traded for range. Plus is makes your ride look pretty cool 8)

I also travel light when benchmarking; take water, a couple of Cliff Bars, phone - call it good. The rest you can get on the road as needed. My best runs are at first light cos you beat the heat of the afternoon... and besides, I want to drink an ice cold beer in daylight after a good long ride :wink:

Make sure your tires are pumped up; less rolling resistance. Don't wear clothing that catches the wind. Every little bit you do to reduce weight and friction will extend your range. Hydration is important: The night before, Water-up and enjoy a goodly plate of pasta for dinner. Breakfast is a toss; I've done it both light and heavy. The only thing I would warn against is a big lunch; better to eat smaller amounts frequently. Personally I break about every 20 miles anyway just to give my bum a break for 10 minutes; that's a perfect time to water-up and scarf down a snack.

Chafe-free, KF

 

[dogman dan]

For many of us, the fit of the bike is not so good, the saddle not so good, and choice of pants might be wrong.

It will make you cry to get off that saddle long before you ride 50 miles. But as was pointed out, for a fit person on a good bike, 100 miles without the motor is quite possible. But many are like me. I'm now crippled by a chronic illness, and I'm just happy as hell I can now occasionally stand 40 mile rides again, with nothing but pretty much faux pedaling. I can't get infinite range by pedaling a dead battery for miles anymore.

For me, distance takes a bike set up to carry 40-50 pounds of battery. Half my battery is old and tired, and I carry 20 ah of it to have 10 ah usable. On the longtail, you don't get no 20 mph from 350w. With a headwind, it might take 1000w to go 20 mph. I routinely carry 1000 wh, and can definitely go 40 miles on it, including wind, and a very large hill.

If you have good new lightweight batteries on a lighter bike with better aero, 100 miles is not beyond reach, IF you ass is up to it on that saddle. You gotta toughen up some first with 30-50 mile rides to be ready.

 

[Matt Gruber]

here in FL i can go anywhere the bus goes. just put the ebike on the front bus rack. and let them do the long distances!
Reminds me of the time i threw a kick scooter into my car and went to walmart. kicked into the store, got the item i needed and the checkout lady says DID U RIDE THAT ALL THE WAY HERE?
i says, YOU MEAN FROM NEW JERSEY?
see looks confused.
i rode it all the way from the parking lot.
Moral of the story, use the right vehicle for the job. Sure i can go 3000 mi in 3 days w/ebike. just put it in the back of my truck!

 

[wineboyrider]

My recipe for a successful 100 Mile plus ride would be a recumbent bike like a day6 that's low to the ground a bafang bbs02 48v motor/controller, 9speed dual drive sram rear hub, 4- 48v ping batteries (2 on the front and 2 in the rear). Keep the gearing right and enjoy the scenery.

 

[Sunder]

It will make you cry to get off that saddle long before you ride 50 miles. But as was pointed out, for a fit person on a good bike, 100 miles without the motor is quite possible.

Definitely possible, but putting it in perspective, the cycling leg of an ironman triathlon is 112 miles. The world record for that leg is 4h 24m. To do 100 miles in 5 hours without assist would probably put you on the border of a professional athlete. It's not as Cephalotus puts it "slow and efficient"

As Hillhater said, I could just pack a 10kg battery. If battery tech doesn't change between now and when I want to do the trip, I probably will, nothing wrong with that. But considering we're effectively backpacking, I don't think much more than 10kg would be possible without a trailer.