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Anyone else having problems with Champion Electric Bicycles?

Hillhater said:
ecowheelz said:
But be warned, it's very hard to impress these guys with a production e-bike.
These guys are avid e-bike enthusiasts with much higher expectations than the average consumer....

I would expect any review to be based around the fact that it is a fully compliant, street legal, Ebike

Hi Hillhater, I just commented on one of your other post. Yes, I agree and the bike should be street legal. We only have 1 bike that is not and even though that bike is the coolest looking of all, it is not realistic for every rider use. All new models will be on the site by the end of the month. For testing, we will stick with an under 20 mph street legal bike. They can even choose which model if they want. I have no issue with any of the models and leave it at their discretion. I can assist in guiding which model I feel they should go for based on their request. They need to decide about riding position, performance such as 250W, 300W or 500W. Mid Rise bar or straight bar. Full saddle or narrow saddle. There are slight differences between all the models. Thanks again for the comment/post. Rob Provost, Prodeco Technologies
 
Daniel said:
I am not sure why so much bad press happened and most did not even give us the benefit of the doubt and went for the jugular other than maybe some competitors are cloaked as members. We have seen this online. It has been a very common theme that whoever does get our bike, absolutely loves them and impressed with the level of quality so when we seen the bashers, we were like, "What's up?"
There are reasons we are in general very leery of posts about commercial ebikes and ebike parts: many of them are obviously spam for the companies, with a few real customers here and there--usually it's reasonably easy to tell the difference, but not always.

If you poke around old ES posts about such bikes and bike parts, many of the "customers" of various commercial ebikes that post are doing all of the things that most commercial ebike manufacturers or dealers do: wildly inflating the abilities of the bike, praising every tiny detail, and finding absolutely nothing wrong with the bike or the company...yet if you do a google search on the same bike, you find lots of reports of problems with it, often specifically about areas that are most highly praised in the "review" of it. When we ask detailed questions about those things, either there is never a reply, or it glosses over any negative stuff we ask about, or ignores the questions completely, or simply makes stuff up (like when it comes to numbers for range and power, especially when we ask about a no-pedal test on a specific kind of course, or we ask them to test using a known wattmeter and provide pictorial results, because the numbers they provide are either physically impossible or unbelievable for the given equpiment/conditions).

Some of these "reveiws" have been removed as spam, because they were shown to come IP-wise from the same places the companies themselves did. Or a whole slew of "customers" of exactly the same kind of bike suddenly show up, every single one an unbelievable promoter of them. Usually a bunch show up on the same day, with none before and none after--that's pushing coincidence a bit far, pointing to someone planning them all to come by and post, or a single person doing all the posting (via IP rerouting, perhaps--it's certainly not unknown).

There are possibly legitimate customers that just seem like shills, that get treated badly, and when it happens I feel bad about it--but it is because of the shills and spammers doing stuff like the above that we are so very skeptical of almost anything commercial.

It doesn't help that last summer, a person came in and bought out the forum out from under it's actual creator, sold by the person who hosted it (who probably didn't really have any rights to sell it), and this person intended to commercialize all of our years of open public postings and our work, comments, technical achievements, etc., and earn himself a profit on it, even though he had no right to any of it. That's made many of us much more touchy about commercial interests of any kind. The one "commercial interest" that we do trust is Justin LE of Grin Tech / http://ebikes.ca , because he's not out to make a buck, he's out to change the world, in the way most of us here are. That's why he now "owns" the forum. If we didn't trust him, there wouldn't be much content left here, because we would have deleted it rather than see it be used to earn someone else profits off of it. Petty, perhaps, but it wasn't created for the purpose of earning money for anyone--simply to share information, and archive that for others to use for themselves as they run across it later.


So, apologies if we appear to be hard on commercially-aligned members, or newly-joined customers of commercial ebikes. It's just our nature to be highly skeptical, even of each other. "Pics or it didn't happen" isn't an uncommon phrase. ;)
 
Nice post, amberwolf :)

While many people on here are primarily interested in DIY bikes, spending less and getting more performance, there are still occasional discussions about legal ready-built bikes. Sometimes a new poster wants one, or DIYers want one they can recommend to their non-techie friends and relatives. From memory, the A2B metro often gets suggested.

Even at 750W and 20mph, people appreciate a well built, well priced bike that's simple to use, reliable, has nicely integrated electronics etc.
 
I have to echo Amberwolf's comments...

Personally, i despise vendors pretending to be buyers and posting fake reviews of their own product.. it's just wrong at the very core of morality...

Any vendor who wants to post on this forum is welcome to do it as long as they follow some very simple and basic rules, and show respect.

Register, introduce yourself, be honest about who and what you are as a company, individual, organization whatever it may be..

- do NOT post about your product in other's threads to try and drum up sales.

bottom line, dont pretend, this forum is not a marketing and advertising competition, it's a discussion forum.. even tho at times this happens and some members are allowed a great deal of liberties but those are contributing members who help others with various things, and participate as members... not only here to sell stuff.

Me, i've gone far from one end to the other, 24v to 100v, 200w to 10,000w ...

As far as commercial applications go, i understand it's a fine line between affordable, and refined, the mass market does not want a DIY bike, they want to buy it and ride it.

500w, is enough for most bicycle riding, average joe, and i've built many for locals, my A2B is a perfect example of what i expect from a ready made bike, it has it's flaws but it also has it's merrits... and i've outlined them in a 2 year review..... no BS.. just cold hard facts.
 
Ypedal said:
I have to echo Amberwolf's comments...

Personally, i despise vendors pretending to be buyers and posting fake reviews of their own product.. it's just wrong at the very core of morality...

Any vendor who wants to post on this forum is welcome to do it as long as they follow some very simple and basic rules, and show respect.

Register, introduce yourself, be honest about who and what you are as a company, individual, organization whatever it may be..

- do NOT post about your product in other's threads to try and drum up sales.

bottom line, dont pretend, this forum is not a marketing and advertising competition, it's a discussion forum.. even tho at times this happens and some members are allowed a great deal of liberties but those are contributing members who help others with various things, and participate as members... not only here to sell stuff.

Me, i've gone far from one end to the other, 24v to 100v, 200w to 10,000w ...

As far as commercial applications go, i understand it's a fine line between affordable, and refined, the mass market does not want a DIY bike, they want to buy it and ride it.

500w, is enough for most bicycle riding, average joe, and i've built many for locals, my A2B is a perfect example of what i expect from a ready made bike, it has it's flaws but it also has it's merrits... and i've outlined them in a 2 year review..... no BS.. just cold hard facts.

Hi YPedal, I did check out the A2B review. I seen the surgery also, haha. That's why it might be exciting to see what you have to say about our bike. I can tell from the review, you take electrics bikes very serious which is what we love. I feel you will be an honest reviewer.

When it comes to fake reviewers and sites buying sites, we also do despise it. Especially some of the bikes out there that we know are low quality and uneventful and they have too many glowing reviews. Not to sound arrogant but we are extremely proud of our bikes but would not allow any false review. If anyone did it at our company, we would get rid of them. I loathe dishonesty. The same with dealers, we had our hands full this year with a few. One big issue that bothers us is the misrepresentation by a dealer of a bike. This goes for misrepresenting the weight capacity, distance and throwing out peak wattage numbers as nominal wattage numbers. I also understand about one having to market the product but I have always been a firm believer that if the product is great, it does not have to be marketed and it will sell itself. Some companies have pushed their product on dealers and in a year or so, there will be a ton of dealers with bikes getting old and those with Maganese batteries having distance issues.

What bike interest you to reveiw of ours. Would you have an interest in doing so? We prefer to do the 2013 model year which is not that far away. They will be available to see in about 3 weeks and ready to ship the end of October, beginning of November.
Robert Provost, Prodeco Technologies
 
Has anyone got any feedback on the Prodeco Review?…I own the Phantom X and while initially excited, the lack of quality and thought process in the build has turned my head to other bikes, I have ordered a BH Emotion Neo Jumper and looking forward to riding it…
The Prodeco Battery on the Phantom has given up on me and most probably due to me being gone from the U.S. for 30 days and leaving it plugged into the charger…so the battery only last for 5-6 miles and craps out…also the front forks leak oil slightly as you can see the oil rings on the shafts clearly, but are soft and still work properly…no rear suspension is a killer for this bike as I ride off road on smooth trails but ever so often cross rough areas and small jumps/humps…the brakes are decent but noisy nothing like hydraulic…the weight is the biggest killer and the weight being at the topmost of the bike really multiplies this…weight distribution makes it a poor bike to ride fast and on gravel trails…the top heaviness also makes standing it on the kickstand in a high wind almost impossible, mine has fallen over so many times I can't count…the battery handle/tailight broke after one month, I don't even know how I broke it?, but it separated from the battery and I took black electrical tape and sealed it up best i could and ordered another handle/tailight from Prodeco which i never installed…one other serious issue as far as handling is the wobbliness of the front forks on the Phantom, riding with no hands will give it the shakes on the front end and on a Jeep they call this the death wobble, on the Phantom this is due to poor quality forks/frame design…the battery that I have is of the older type (2011) and it actually protrudes out past the rear tire, so that was not very stable or aesthetic…I moved the battery forward 2" by redrilling and shifting the battery carrier myself which helped…most of the components are just so-so and if really pushed I would say elcheapo, not to be rude, but to be painfully honest…the Prodeco team here in the U.S. I would consider to be professional and really wanting to make a great product and stand by it, but if you use cheap components, you end up with a well assembled, well marketed, good looking cheap seat…I can't speak for others but I would rather spend $5000 on a quality product that is going to last and give me some good value than spend $500 on something that I am going to have to work on or use the warranty to repair it. I hate warranties and I do not buy aftermarket warranties on ANYTHING, most of them are crap/joke anyway…

I also bought my wife a Stride 500R and the battery started having discoloration issues within two month, front wheel has to be misaligned slightly so the disc brake does squeak and the bike runs true…other than that she hasn't ridden it 20 miles I don't think…

The battery for my Phantom is with Daniel at Prodeco right now for repair, I will probably give this bike to my son so we can do some riding together…

I think Prodeco has stepped up on quality and will continue to do so to be honest, but still not reach the top tier like BH, Optibike or KTM, simply due to pricing versus quality…I am really interested in Prodeco FULL suspension mountain bike when they arrive and will look at them once on the market…

My suggestions for Prodeco:
Get the weight down low on the Full Suspension bikes and get the weight down to a minimum level (The BH Neo Jumper is only 48 lbs)…offer optional builds as far as quality components are concerned, so one could select high quality components if desired, fully knowing that the price will ramp up as quality does…a GOOD 500W Hub Motor with quality components and battery will perform as well as a 750W cheap seat…look at BH Emotion 350W Neo Jumper, it compares to Prodeco 500W bikes easily as it is geared and lighter in weight with a battery that sits well below the rider…

I want Quality speed (20-25 mph is plenty for me), Quality ride (Full Suspension), Quality components (Shocks, Gears, Brakes, Pedals, Seat, Handle Bars, Computer, Tires, Handling)…Quality longevity with minimal maintenance...
 
LTZ470"I want Quality speed (20-25 mph is plenty for me) said:
for above you need to pay more than $2000 and step up to another class of ebikes like Stromer or Specialized Turbo or Kalkhof.
What you have described would have never happened on Stromer for that matter.
On one hand they tried to keep price below $1800 on other hand they want quality, it is not going to happen.
Suspension fork alone of decent quality /brand name/ can cost min $400-500 and it cost that much for the reason.
 
miro13car said:
for above you need to pay more than $2000 and step up to another class of ebikes like Stromer or Specialized Turbo or Kalkhof.
What you have described would have never happened on Stromer for that matter.
On one hand they tried to keep price below $1800 on other hand they want quality, it is not going to happen.
Suspension fork alone of decent quality /brand name/ can cost min $400-500 and it cost that much for the reason.
Thats why I went with the BH E-Motion Neo Jumper and an extra battery pack which I think can be strapped with rubber straps under the existing battery for longer trips if required and if not can be left charging for a return trip change out, worse case scenario it can be stored on board the bike in a rack pack…
Prodeco products make a lot of sense for some folks, but if you want quality and longevity, a top tier vendor $$$$ or build you own…I personally don't need anything like the Optibike or Stealth, crazy expensive and draws too many eyes meaning one would have to keep them out of sight out of mind for the most part, where I can just lock up the Neo Jumper and feel reasonably secure as it looks closer to "normal" and also very practical…I take a couple of cameras with me, so the full suspension will be welcome as well…

The Prodeco older batteries "pull" handle was pure junk and I am sure they wouldn't want to comment on how many actually broke away from the battery pack. They were designed to enable the rider/user to pull the battery off the carrier, but couldn't even do that as they would part from the case if you did use them, I think I broke mine by in advertantly hitting it while loading the bike on a carrier though…so Prodeco has learned a few things and redesigned the battery and carrier, which shows they are a works in progress...
 
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