Aussie 200 Watt Limit Thread
- Thread starter all74
- Start date
Modbikemax
1 kW
TheBeastie said:
I owned a Harley in the 80s in Melbourne, not as common as they are now, and I would get pulled over once a week for a licence check. Mostly it was bored cops wanting to have a look at my bike. Very annoying.
You would hope they were just curious filling in some time. Maybe one of them owns a raptor. Pitty you didn't go and say g'day and ask them what their interest was. They really can't do much unless you are riding it and breaking the law.
Breaking a unlawful law.Modbikemax said:
What we need is a possibility to get them insured and registered for a reasonable price in a reasonable time.
Also a reasonable speedlimit for driving ebikes on bicycle and shared paths.
Powerfull and fast ebikes also should never be get in the hands of inappropriate people like currently with the cars is the case.
Modbikemax
1 kW
Sean9002 said:
A Drivers licence is not a document to allow you to drive a car it is designed to waive your rights so you can get a fine without a court hearing, you can challenge it but you need to prove your innocence. Without a licence they need to prove your guilt. Be glad we don't need a licence for a bicycle or an ebike, the burden of proof is still on the cops and unless you are being a real dick head they probably don't want the paperwork.
Sunder
10 MW
Modbikemax said:
Do you have any basis for saying this? Is it WA specific?
In NSW, the police can issue a "Driving unlicensed" fine with no proof and no court case (unless you challenge it, just like any other driving offense).
Just like police can issue a "riding unlicensed" fine to an ebike rider with no proof or court case. The charge will stick until you can prove your bike does not fit the definition of a motorcycle.
Modbikemax
1 kW
It comes back to if you are on the roads you have no rights. I may have been overstating my knowledge in the area so please don't go doing anything stupid on my say so. Just don't be a dick head On any public road.
Architectonic
10 kW
Modbikemax said:
That explains a lot, actually... Hmm.
Tom L
1 kW
Nope. It's a permit to operate a vehicle of a specified type on a public road. Nothing to do with the legality of issuing infringement notices.
merrystein
1 mW
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 15
Is it legal to ride your 500W bike on the road in Oz, but with the battery off ?
Then when you get off public roads and onto private land, switch the battery on and enjoy the 500W power.
Technically, you are following safe riding practises.
This may of been answered somewhere before, and depends on the common sense of the policeperson.
Then when you get off public roads and onto private land, switch the battery on and enjoy the 500W power.
Technically, you are following safe riding practises.
This may of been answered somewhere before, and depends on the common sense of the policeperson.
thewmatusmoloki
10 kW
Do any of you guy's just enjoy a ride now and then with the freedom that we already have rather than typing on the internet about how we should be regulated so much ? People read this stuff you know.
What is the problem?
What is the problem?
merrystein
1 mW
- Joined
- Feb 11, 2014
- Messages
- 15
The Revenue Raisers.thewmatusmoloki said:
I ride my fleet of 200W and 250W each day. The only one that collects dust, is the 500W offroader. Legal on roads in US, but not here.
The revenue raisers are pretty agressive here in Qld lately. In the last 6 months, see them out booking motorists and cyclists on a daily basis....reducing the state's debt.
They have pulled me up twice in 6 months, both when I was on electric bikes, but both times, they did not question the motor, especially my DD Golden Motor 250W big front wheel (same size as the 1000W version).
Previous to this, I was last pulled up by RRs in 1996 (on a motorcycle) with the exception of roadside breath tests, and yet my daily travel has remained basically unchanged since then.
So now I do things well within the rules, even though in some situations, it feels more dangerous. Before that, I used to use common sense to make travelling safer.
TheBeastie
1 MW
http://www.theage.com.au/comment/nutting-out-the-nuttiness-of-bikecar-relations-20141223-12c2q0.html
Cyclists and motorists are like the Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq – they share the same territory but just can't get on. However, the schism twixt Australian cyclists and motorists is more baffling, because many of them are one and the same.
Cyclists and motorists are like the Sunnis and Shi'ites in Iraq – they share the same territory but just can't get on. However, the schism twixt Australian cyclists and motorists is more baffling, because many of them are one and the same.
thewmatusmoloki
10 kW
That sounds pretty grim, hope things improve for you.merrystein said:
I ride 7 days a week on a 6kw cromotor powered full suspension bike that does look a bit like a motorbike and I ride it on roads and footpaths sharing with both pedestrians and cars/trucks here in QLD.
And yet I haven't been pulled over by the cops in 5 odd years now (and easily got away with that one), I'm guessing it's something to do with my riding style.
I do need to ask if you were wearing a helmet when they pulled you over?
Modbikemax
1 kW
What happens when you speed through a multinova? Instant fine. Where else is justice so swift? Without a licence they have to catch you first. They want you to think it's a permit but in reality it says you agree to their terms and conditions which includes a list of penalties, remember the form you signed agreeing to this when you got your licence. So in effect you have admitted guilt, if you break the rules, before you get behind the wheel.Tom L said:
What happens if you get photographed on your unlicensed ebike at the same multinova?
I am sure there is an avenue for the cops to book you for just about anything but I am pretty sure is is not as cut and dry if you don't have a licence. But don't quote me on that.
Sunder
10 MW
Attitudes like this worry me. They really do.
Police have no problem pulling over and fining unregistered and uninsured drivers all the time. Many NSW police cars also have automatic number plate recognition to highlight unregistered cars to them(why do you think we got rid of Rego stickers). And who is going to lend you a registered car, when you're unlicensed? Any fines detected by camera automatically goes to the car owner, unless thy nominate... Get this, another licensed driver. So unless someone loves you very much, or hates you enough to claim you stole their car, you can't even get a car legally without a license.
You can even get imprisoned for repeat offenses. Admittedly, if nobody was hurt, it's rare, but drive uninsured, unregistered and unlicenced and get caught in a traffic accident, and jail time is a likely outcome for you.
One of my cousins works in juvenile justice. She told me over Christmas that one of her clients bought an unrgistered car (advertised "for parts") then stole number plates to put on his car, because he couldn't afford rego, insurance, tolls or tickets. He was finally pulled over for having a "stolen car" because the police cameras flagged the plates as stolen. Guess who is now facing not only an unpayable debt, but if the magistrate is having a bad day, possible weekend detention?
The registration system may very well facilitate the fast processing of fines. But if you believe for a second that being unlicensed is a way to get around that, you're not only a fool, but a criminal fool at that.
Police have no problem pulling over and fining unregistered and uninsured drivers all the time. Many NSW police cars also have automatic number plate recognition to highlight unregistered cars to them(why do you think we got rid of Rego stickers). And who is going to lend you a registered car, when you're unlicensed? Any fines detected by camera automatically goes to the car owner, unless thy nominate... Get this, another licensed driver. So unless someone loves you very much, or hates you enough to claim you stole their car, you can't even get a car legally without a license.
You can even get imprisoned for repeat offenses. Admittedly, if nobody was hurt, it's rare, but drive uninsured, unregistered and unlicenced and get caught in a traffic accident, and jail time is a likely outcome for you.
One of my cousins works in juvenile justice. She told me over Christmas that one of her clients bought an unrgistered car (advertised "for parts") then stole number plates to put on his car, because he couldn't afford rego, insurance, tolls or tickets. He was finally pulled over for having a "stolen car" because the police cameras flagged the plates as stolen. Guess who is now facing not only an unpayable debt, but if the magistrate is having a bad day, possible weekend detention?
The registration system may very well facilitate the fast processing of fines. But if you believe for a second that being unlicensed is a way to get around that, you're not only a fool, but a criminal fool at that.
Tom L
1 kW
Modbikemax said:
Littering or swearing in public. No licence required.
Modbikemax
1 kW
Tom L said:
I am pretty sure the swearing one is gone and the littering one is a council by law. Not really relevant to this discussion.
My point is if ebikes were licensed with plates we could face automatic fines same as car drivers.
Modbikemax
1 kW
Sunder said:
They turned off the plate recognition system in WA because, according to the commissioner, police were spending too much time chasing unlicensed cars instead of doing real police work like finding the bastards who broke into my shop last May.
Tom L
1 kW
Modbikemax said:
And my point is you can legislate on the spot fines without the need for issuing licences.
Another example is the decriminalisation of marijuana in South Australia.
Sunder
10 MW
Modbikemax said:
We agree on one minor point at least - traffic work isn't police work, and should be relegated to highway patrol or even state rangers or a similar function.
However, which would you consider more serious - someone breaking into your shop and stealing a few thousand worth of goods, or someone breaking your spine in a car accident, then saying "Sorry mate, I thought licences were just so the state could fine me, so I didn't bother getting one. And err, about that 2 million dollar compensation pay out I owe you because you're now a permanent paraplegic, you see, as an unlicensed driver, I'm also uninsured, so you can have $10 a week from my pay packet from now until I die... Sorry mate, it's the best I can offer..."
dm9876
10 mW
I think we can all agree that the current regulations on ebikes are not helpful for anyone or anything, however nothing will change without well backed, organised and sustained lobbying. Clearly after nearly 1000 posts in this thread none of us fit the bill to make it happen. I think the change to match euro standards only happened because enough business was at stake.
For the record my preference would be speed and weight limit only (or perhaps maximum breaking distance instead of weight) power standards as applied to electric motors is never going to be a clear line in the sand.
For the record my preference would be speed and weight limit only (or perhaps maximum breaking distance instead of weight) power standards as applied to electric motors is never going to be a clear line in the sand.
thewmatusmoloki
10 kW
I tend to think that they are the best that we've ever had.(or will ever have in the future)dm9876 said:
Don't be an obvious pest on the road and bad things won't be legislated against you.
This is not some kind of utopian wish or political whinge ..... it's just the way the world actually works bloke.
have a nice day
Sunder
10 MW
thewmatusmoloki said:I tend to think that they are the best that we've ever had.(or will ever have in the future)dm9876 said:
Don't be an obvious pest on the road and bad things won't be legislated against you.
This is not some kind of utopian wish or political whinge ..... it's just the way the world actually works bloke.
have a nice day
99.9% of users can Ben good, but if 2 kids die on ebikes within a couple month of each other, there's your legislation right there, probably followed by increased enforcement.
Just look at the raw milk scandal recently. Raw milk has been "legal" since there was any legislation over milk, as long as it was labeled "not fit for human consumption". Everyone knew when it was in the same type of bottle, same type of labeling and right next to the milk intended for human consumption what was really going on, but nobody cared. 1 kid dies, 4 kids get sick, and all of a sudden, any farmer that sells raw milk without an astringent in it is up for a $18k fine.