Azub and Grin Tech. All Axle Install?

[2longing2bent]

Hi, we have an Azub Ti-fly & Tricon and we are interested in installing the Grin Technologies All Axle Hub on the front wheel of these trikes. Has anyone, successfully, adapted the torque arm required to install it on the trike to have it all run smoothly? Any help is appreciated before we bite the bullet. Thank you… I’m new here and looking forward to info.

 

[goatman]

do you think the front suspension design can handle it, arent they like a leaf spring?

 

[SolarFreak]

Another Azub TiFly 26 owner here. I contemplated the Grin all axle hub on the front on mine for a while, but decided to go for the GMAC on the rear mainly because I'm using the trike for touring so the regen braking is a massive plus for extending the range. The only problem I've had with the torque arm mounting is that the mount bracket doesn't sit squarely on the rear swing arm due to the irregular shape, so I'm looking into having one made to match the swing arm curvature - it works, but I'm not sure I'd trust it on a long tour as I've had to file a groove in the bracket so that it sits better on the swing arm. If Grin done a all axle hub for the rear I would have gone for that instead, but the GMAC is superb also IMHO. I'm sure there are brackets out there that mount the torque arm to the disc brake mounts, or maybe one from a different make of trike can be adapted.

The TiFly is a dual leaf spring type front suspension, but they are made of aircraft grade Titanium so are more than capable of withstanding powered hubs I think. The standard of engineering & craftsmanship on Azub trikes is outstanding, I'm super happy with mine.

 

[Triketech]

All axle can be fitted to the front but you won't like it after a while. It will take some minor fab work. Brakes will put a lot more stress on the suspension than motors will FWIW.

Unsprung weight and steering feedback on the front will be annoying to say the least.

MAC/GMAC motors are superb when set up right. We've been running a pair of 10T MAC's on Scorpion FS26's for 6 years now; 5000+ miles, internals are still in great shape.

52V, 35A, off the line has 78 Ft-Lbs of torque at the wheel; at a total weight of 249 lbs can creep up 26% grade at 4 MPH, steepest I've found so far.

We built ours for hill climb assistance although I tend to take a few Superman rides every week too...

Five years ago the trikes looked like this:
http://www.triketech.com/Drivetrain/PowerAssist/HPV-MAC-V2.html

Since then I've upgraded to a new underboom Wolf battery and cleaned up mounts and wiring to a near factory grade appearance.

 

[Amber]

Hi,

I am looking into adding a motor to a Azub trifly 20inch wheels for use off road use only e.g. forests, loose slate, mud and I live somewhere with long steep hills. I would like to have a pedal assisted trike with an optional throttle to ensure I can get home if my legs stop working due to ME. I would also like a reverse direction switch. I will use my trike for off road cycling trips but also to go on countryside walks with people (low speed, high torque). I will carry two bike batteries joined together in parallel using a battery cable splitter.

Motor options

Azub said- We recommend a mid-drive or rear hub motor.
Front wheel motors are prohibited because the front axle is not strong enough for this usage.
Rear dropouts are 135mm wide.

Would a rear or mid drive motor be best for off-road use and hills? Reverse requires either a direct drive motor, or a geared motor with a locked clutch (e.g. GMAC Hub Motor). I wouldn't be able to have reverse with a mid drive motor but mid drive gives more torque so is it best to forfeit reverse if the high torque is best for the terrain/use?

1) Rear hub motor choice is GMAC but one post above mentioned having issues with fitting the torque arm and the frame geometry. Another option could be the RH212 via Grin.

2)Heinzmann, Cargo Power system. Rated load torque: up to 31 Nm, at 250W it is 11.9Nm. Capable of pushing a 300kg load up a 10% incline. https://www.heinzmann-electric-motors.com/en/system-solutions/bicycle-drive-systems/cargopower

3) Mid drive-Bafang BBS01B-ETM motor system. Peak 100Nm torque. These have PAS (cadence based) pedal assist with the option to install a throttle too. What type of gears would you recommend to cope with the torque? Would derailleur gears be ok with this torque level or would it have to be something like Rohloff Speedhub? https://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/store/p112/Bafang%C2%AE_BBS01B-ETM_36V_250W_motor_kit_%28DPC-18_display%29_with_LG_MH1_cell_16Ah_downtube_battery.html

sensor type
Due to the ME my effort has to remain minimal through out my ride. I cannot put effort into pedalling before it decides to give assistance, nor can I maintain any level of effort, and so I assume a PAS rather than a torque sensor would be best. Is this assumption correct?
GRIN recommend a 24 pole PAS if you have a square taped spindle with 5mm exposed spindle. What type of sensor fits on this trike?

Thank you for your time and comments

 

[99t4]

Due to the ME my effort has to remain minimal through out my ride. I cannot put effort into pedalling before it decides to give assistance, nor can I maintain any level of effort, and so I assume a PAS rather than a torque sensor would be best. Is this assumption correct?

Better would be throttle in addition to PAS. Use the throttle to get things rolling (no pedal effort required), then can release throttle while pedaling as PAS takes effect, adding throttle whenever desired.

You are correct, torque sensor would not work as well in your case. As you stated "nor can I maintain any level of effort," the tq. sensor would not receive sufficient signal to call for assistance.

 

[amberwolf]

I recommend that you let us merge your threads for your project into a single one, so that all the information about it can be easily found in one place and seen by everyone helping you.

Otherwise you will have to repeat things for everyone answering you in each thread you use for this project, since they probably will not have seen any of your other threads, and everything on an ebike relates to everything else as a system. (answering questions about motors often means needing to know about the battery, controller, vehicle, usage, etc)

I can move the previous posts into this thread, or I can move this thread into the previous one.

You can always edit the title of the first post in the thread to reflect the current question, problem, etc., or just to what the project is (or is about) in total.

 

[Amber]

I recommend that you let us merge your threads for your project into a single one, so that all the information about it can be easily found in one place and seen by everyone helping you.

Hi,

I actually thought i was posting this under an ongoing thread by someone else. https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=114418&hilit=azub

Thank you for the offer but I am asking questions on this specifically about the Azub trifly. On the other posts it is for a DIY project which is a different shaped trike and has restrictions on the battery to it having to be six Ligo batteries.

 

[Amber]

All axle can be fitted to the front but you won't like it after a while.

Hi,

I am looking into adding a motor to a Azub trifly 20inch wheels for use off road use only e.g. forests, loose slate, mud and I live somewhere with long steep hills. I would like to have a pedal assisted trike with an optional throttle to ensure I can get home if my legs stop working due to ME. I would also like a reverse direction switch. I will use my trike for off road cycling trips but also to go on countryside walks with people (low speed, high torque). I will carry two bike batteries joined together in parallel using a battery cable splitter.

Motor options

Azub said- We recommend a mid-drive or rear hub motor.
Front wheel motors are prohibited because the front axle is not strong enough for this usage.
Rear dropouts are 135mm wide.

Would a rear or mid drive motor be best for off-road use and hills? Reverse requires either a direct drive motor, or a geared motor with a locked clutch (e.g. GMAC Hub Motor). I wouldn't be able to have reverse with a mid drive motor but mid drive gives more torque so is it best to forfeit reverse if the high torque is best for the terrain/use?

1) Rear hub motor choice is GMAC but one post above mentioned having issues with fitting the torque arm and the frame geometry. Another option could be the RH212 via Grin.

2)Heinzmann, Cargo Power system. Rated load torque: up to 31 Nm, at 250W it is 11.9Nm. Capable of pushing a 300kg load up a 10% incline. https://www.heinzmann-electric-motors.c ... cargopower

3) Mid drive-Bafang BBS01B-ETM motor system. Peak 100Nm torque. These have PAS (cadence based) pedal assist with the option to install a throttle too. What type of gears would you recommend to cope with the torque? Would derailleur gears be ok with this torque level or would it have to be something like Rohloff Speedhub? https://www.brightonebikes.co.uk/store/ ... ttery.html

sensor type
Due to the ME my effort has to remain minimal through out my ride. I cannot put effort into pedalling before it decides to give assistance, nor can I maintain any level of effort, and so I assume a PAS rather than a torque sensor would be best. Is this assumption correct?
GRIN recommend a 24 pole PAS if you have a square taped spindle with 5mm exposed spindle. What type of sensor fits on the Azub trifly trike?

Thank you all for your time and comments